24 Hours after the Miracle on HNIC, I think it was the best thing to happen

Leafsfan74

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
4,781
4,914
Well, maybe not the best outcome, but, it may finally be the impetus needed to force change. If not at the deadline than certainly in the offseason.

The way they have lost some big games with such ease and little fight back or bite, just isn't acceptable. Teams with talent can sometimes find some success when playing sub par, but when it's exposed by other teams who simply want it more, you are forced to re-evaluate.

If Dubas wasn't already doing it before, he's doing it now. The rosy red glasses replaced with a hard, objective view. He should ask other teams coaches and scouts how THEY view the Leafs and how they plan against them. That will tell him their deficiencies.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
1,707
Alberta
I hope you are right. But I'm just not sure. How many times has this team been publically humiliated this season? It hasn't been to this extent since this was a remarkable showing of utter embarrassment. But they've been blown out, outworked, and failed in amazing ways. I'm not sure this will really sink in enough.

If it works out then great. We need the people at the top to really evaluate where this team is lacking and start working on dealing with that. But we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully the deadline shows some signs of it.
 

go_leafs_go02

Registered User
Apr 24, 2004
7,586
204
London, ON
I hope you are right. But I'm just not sure. How many times has this team been publically humiliated this season? It hasn't been to this extent since this was a remarkable showing of utter embarrassment. But they've been blown out, outworked, and failed in amazing ways. I'm not sure this will really sink in enough.

If it works out then great. We need the people at the top to really evaluate where this team is lacking and start working on dealing with that. But we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully the deadline shows some signs of it.

To be fair, the core (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares [in Toronto]) haven't had to deal with the wrath of the Toronto market until this season. Last year being up 3-2 again Boston and hosting them in Toronto and ultimately losing once again 7 games really started the downhill spiral.
 
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Erdinger

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Oct 6, 2011
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Toronto
To be fair, the core (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares [in Toronto]) haven't had to deal with the wrath of the Toronto market until this season. Last year being up 3-2 again Boston and hosting them in Toronto and ultimately losing once again 7 games really started the downhill spiral.
This is true. Babcock was taking the heat for them up until now
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
You have to understand Dubas can't quantify things like heart, commitment, passion and leadership, so he doesn't look for those things or care about them when building a team. He's never been around men at a high level in hockey to understand the intangibles necessary to win.
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
86,912
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Leafs Home Board
A great Canadian sports story , can't wait for the movie .

Story continues.
Canes to bring emergency backup goalie Ayers to Raleigh for game

TORONTO — The Carolina Hurricanes aren't done with David Ayres just yet.

Ayres, a 42-year-old Zamboni driver for the American Hockey League's Toronto Marlies, was forced to be Carolina's emergency goalie for its road game Saturday night against the Toronto Maple Leafs. Ayers, of Whitby, Ont., stopped eight of 10 shots he faced in his NHL debut, helping the Hurricanes capture a 6-3 victory.

Afterward, he was named the game's first star. Ayres came into the game in the second period after injuries to regular netminders and On Sunday, the Hurricanes announced Ayres will attend their home game Tuesday night against the Dallas Stars.

"See you Tuesday, Davey!" the club said on its Twitter account. "Ayres will be in the building on Tuesday and will be our @VectorSecurity Siren Sounder!"

For Ayres, it's another opportunity for him to hang out with his new teammates. "They're flying me down to Carolina for their game on Tuesday so I'll get to spend more time with the guys, which is good," he told reporters in Toronto on Sunday. "They're a great team, great organization."

Carolina Hurricanes to bring emergency backup goalie David Ayers to Raleigh for game - TSN.ca
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
Well, maybe not the best outcome, but, it may finally be the impetus needed to force change. If not at the deadline than certainly in the offseason.

The way they have lost some big games with such ease and little fight back or bite, just isn't acceptable. Teams with talent can sometimes find some success when playing sub par, but when it's exposed by other teams who simply want it more, you are forced to re-evaluate.

If Dubas wasn't already doing it before, he's doing it now. The rosy red glasses replaced with a hard, objective view. He should ask other teams coaches and scouts how THEY view the Leafs and how they plan against them. That will tell him their deficiencies.

I think one of the problems with our lineup is we have so many skilled guys, who have dominated at other levels with skill that they sometimes try and 'skill' their way out of trouble instead of 'willing' it.
Lots of young guys come in the league after having dominated junior or overseas, and it takes time for them to adjust to a league where everyone has similar skill. Watching Marner last night, he tried to toe drag and do cute little plays which sometimes work, but in a game like there where your getting forechecked to heck and facing a solid blue line playing a full colapse style, you need more Hymans and less Kerfoots (just examples, not picking on anyone)

Most teams with skill have their skill guys, and their will guys. Young players need to learn that, usually through failure or adversity. Up until now Matthews, Nylander, Marner etc havent had all that much adversity. They came into the league, all put up good point and or goal totals, made the playoffs every year and lost "honorably" to the "better" team. If in Matthews rookie year we were told as fans we would get 3 straight playoff appearances, a rookie of the year award, bring in Tavares, 100 point season, we would have been extatic. As a team, this is the first year that just being good young players wasnt going to be good enough. They got paid, and with that came expectations that they were going to dominate and be a top 5 team (which I would argue they are when they are clicking).

This year might end up being a learning one, where the team gets a bunch of key injuries and guys dont respond well. Because we are the biggest fanbase, we loudly demand year over year improvement which just doesnt happen in sports. Teams get better, and sometimes take a step back before taking a leap forward. I think people excuse the past if it ends up in a payoff, like with Ovie. For the first decade of his career almost he was spoken of as selfish, bad teammate, someone you couldnt win it all with, streaky. He had a bad year and people were talking about the need to 'blow up' Washington. Same thing in most sports, once you 'win it all' your past failures are forgiven.

My hope is this year and whatever adversity is attached to it (legitimate or not) battle hardens the guys and shows them just having the best hands or shot doesnt mean much if the other team outworks you, or if your being lazy, or trying to only play in half the ice. Im still very positive that this is the best core the Leafs have had in generations, one that needs either some guys on the back end to take a leap forward (Liljgren, Sandin, Rielly) or one good move to help balance the power. If Rielly has a good defensive partner, one who can let him be himself a bit more (a much improved Hainsey) that takes a ton of pressure off the Muzzin pairing, gives the young guys time to get acclimated on the 3rd pair and learn to dominate.

Will we see it in the next 21h? Maybe, maybe not. But we know the team knows where they are lacking, the GM knows where they are lacking, and they have excess forwards up front who can be packaged to find the right piece.

Have faith all!
 

Brown Dog

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
5,709
4,811
Obviously changes need to be made, but the problem is we're so locked in to this core, it's going to be difficult.

We're not trading Matthews (nor should we!) and Tavares isn't going anywhere 2 years into a 7-year deal and new captaincy.

I can't see Dubas trading Marner. Nylander maybe, but would it make a huge difference?

Andersen is likely back for at least one more year.

Rielly and Muzzin are back in the top 4. Probably Sandin too.

So we're left with more tinkering around the edges of the roster, trying to find cheap depth players that can make an impact because the core left no meat on the salary cap bone.

Dubas has made his bed with this core and it might take another couple years of failure before significant changes are made. Hopefully it doesn't turn out that way, but that's the way things are headed.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
29,786
21,962
You have to understand Dubas can't quantify things like heart, commitment, passion and leadership, so he doesn't look for those things or care about them when building a team. He's never been around men at a high level in hockey to understand the intangibles necessary to win.

You have so you know right. :biglaugh::biglaugh:
 

Tall Morty

Visualize the action to actualize the vision
Apr 18, 2017
1,677
1,913
A great Canadian sports story , can't wait for the movie .
I hope Willem Dafoe plays Babcock

B9551D77-BB6A-4701-A558-A2E07B2F87EB.jpeg
 

Strangle

Registered User
May 4, 2009
8,170
4,936
I think one of the problems with our lineup is we have so many skilled guys, who have dominated at other levels with skill that they sometimes try and 'skill' their way out of trouble instead of 'willing' it.
Lots of young guys come in the league after having dominated junior or overseas, and it takes time for them to adjust to a league where everyone has similar skill. Watching Marner last night, he tried to toe drag and do cute little plays which sometimes work, but in a game like there where your getting forechecked to heck and facing a solid blue line playing a full colapse style, you need more Hymans and less Kerfoots (just examples, not picking on anyone)

Most teams with skill have their skill guys, and their will guys. Young players need to learn that, usually through failure or adversity. Up until now Matthews, Nylander, Marner etc havent had all that much adversity. They came into the league, all put up good point and or goal totals, made the playoffs every year and lost "honorably" to the "better" team. If in Matthews rookie year we were told as fans we would get 3 straight playoff appearances, a rookie of the year award, bring in Tavares, 100 point season, we would have been extatic. As a team, this is the first year that just being good young players wasnt going to be good enough. They got paid, and with that came expectations that they were going to dominate and be a top 5 team (which I would argue they are when they are clicking).

This year might end up being a learning one, where the team gets a bunch of key injuries and guys dont respond well. Because we are the biggest fanbase, we loudly demand year over year improvement which just doesnt happen in sports. Teams get better, and sometimes take a step back before taking a leap forward. I think people excuse the past if it ends up in a payoff, like with Ovie. For the first decade of his career almost he was spoken of as selfish, bad teammate, someone you couldnt win it all with, streaky. He had a bad year and people were talking about the need to 'blow up' Washington. Same thing in most sports, once you 'win it all' your past failures are forgiven.

My hope is this year and whatever adversity is attached to it (legitimate or not) battle hardens the guys and shows them just having the best hands or shot doesnt mean much if the other team outworks you, or if your being lazy, or trying to only play in half the ice. Im still very positive that this is the best core the Leafs have had in generations, one that needs either some guys on the back end to take a leap forward (Liljgren, Sandin, Rielly) or one good move to help balance the power. If Rielly has a good defensive partner, one who can let him be himself a bit more (a much improved Hainsey) that takes a ton of pressure off the Muzzin pairing, gives the young guys time to get acclimated on the 3rd pair and learn to dominate.

Will we see it in the next 21h? Maybe, maybe not. But we know the team knows where they are lacking, the GM knows where they are lacking, and they have excess forwards up front who can be packaged to find the right piece.

Have faith all!

all of this should have happened after losing games 6 and 7 to the Bruins last year.
 
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Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
13,984
4,965
10 shots against, 2 goals against? How many were difficult saves?

Good story, but the Hurricanes came together and made sure that the gentleman in net wasnt humiliated. Is there any other opponent in this league that the canes could have done that too?

If the roles were reversed, im certain Ayres would have been outright humiliated. No way that these leafs dig deep and work for him.

This was embarrassing for sure...BUT i thank the hockey gods (and im sure Ayres does to) that it was Carolina that needed the emergency goalie and not the leafs.
 
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filthyMitz

Registered User
Feb 5, 2018
347
303
Indiana
I think one of the problems with our lineup is we have so many skilled guys, who have dominated at other levels with skill that they sometimes try and 'skill' their way out of trouble instead of 'willing' it.
Lots of young guys come in the league after having dominated junior or overseas, and it takes time for them to adjust to a league where everyone has similar skill. Watching Marner last night, he tried to toe drag and do cute little plays which sometimes work, but in a game like there where your getting forechecked to heck and facing a solid blue line playing a full colapse style, you need more Hymans and less Kerfoots (just examples, not picking on anyone)

Most teams with skill have their skill guys, and their will guys. Young players need to learn that, usually through failure or adversity. Up until now Matthews, Nylander, Marner etc havent had all that much adversity. They came into the league, all put up good point and or goal totals, made the playoffs every year and lost "honorably" to the "better" team. If in Matthews rookie year we were told as fans we would get 3 straight playoff appearances, a rookie of the year award, bring in Tavares, 100 point season, we would have been extatic. As a team, this is the first year that just being good young players wasnt going to be good enough. They got paid, and with that came expectations that they were going to dominate and be a top 5 team (which I would argue they are when they are clicking).

This year might end up being a learning one, where the team gets a bunch of key injuries and guys dont respond well. Because we are the biggest fanbase, we loudly demand year over year improvement which just doesnt happen in sports. Teams get better, and sometimes take a step back before taking a leap forward. I think people excuse the past if it ends up in a payoff, like with Ovie. For the first decade of his career almost he was spoken of as selfish, bad teammate, someone you couldnt win it all with, streaky. He had a bad year and people were talking about the need to 'blow up' Washington. Same thing in most sports, once you 'win it all' your past failures are forgiven.

My hope is this year and whatever adversity is attached to it (legitimate or not) battle hardens the guys and shows them just having the best hands or shot doesnt mean much if the other team outworks you, or if your being lazy, or trying to only play in half the ice. Im still very positive that this is the best core the Leafs have had in generations, one that needs either some guys on the back end to take a leap forward (Liljgren, Sandin, Rielly) or one good move to help balance the power. If Rielly has a good defensive partner, one who can let him be himself a bit more (a much improved Hainsey) that takes a ton of pressure off the Muzzin pairing, gives the young guys time to get acclimated on the 3rd pair and learn to dominate.

Will we see it in the next 21h? Maybe, maybe not. But we know the team knows where they are lacking, the GM knows where they are lacking, and they have excess forwards up front who can be packaged to find the right piece.

Have faith all!
Please contribute in more threads. I’d love more level headed thoughts spread around a bit more.
 
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Strangle

Registered User
May 4, 2009
8,170
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Starring Macaulay Culkin as Mitch Marner
Finn Cole as Auston Matthews
Jack Gleeson as William Nylander
and Adam Levine as John Tavares

Marner is played like a creepy evil clown, making Ayers drink urine for the enjoyment of the group.

Matthews is played like a pimp who is sleeping with Ayers wife

Nylander played as a European who is struggling with English, only there for comic relief

Tavares played as a drunk womanizer who has a rink rat in every city and is too drunk to know what’s going on with the team from moment to moment

Ayers overcomes all of these obstacles to defeat the evil Maple Leafs in the Stanley cup finals, while falling in love with a local Carolina reporter who is unlucky in love but a very, very good catch.
 

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