GDT: #23|Pens vs. Flyers|Sat, Mar. 6 @1:00PM - Game 3: The Return of the Jedi

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Bingo71

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Excellent GDT. Key game here no matter how many view this roster and coaching. Player have to know losing the 3 game series at home is a killer. But I sense and have been feeling after the cup runs the drive just isn't there to pay any real price to go for it again. What ever chemistry was devleoped for the cup runs, it is over.
One does have to wonder if that drive is still there for the core. They’ve won it all 3 times now and have proven that they can do it. At this stage of their careers, are they still willing to sacrifice and push themselves to the limit, or are they content with simply collecting their paychecks and turning it on when they feel like it?

Sounds harsh but there is no denying that there are games in which the stars just seem to mail it in and are out for a skate...
 

vodeni

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I see Sullivan's problem like this:

He creates narratives for himself to simplify his job and provide structure. This limits his flexibility and willingness to adapt during difficult times. Boxing himself in. It takes something monumentally bad to force him to concede that his preconceived notions of what works are wrong.
Here's some examples:

- There are set pairs on the first 3 lines that he is married to, either because they've had success in the past or those were the pairs he decided on in the off-season. One winger on each of these lines can be rotated to provide a spark. He will only break this structure if forced by injuries. That's why we saw GMR, and why they were disbanded the moment Sid returned. It goes against his policy.

- Sully decided in the off-season that his PK'ers are Tanev, Blueger and a few 4th liners (Jank, Sceviour) who must be used there to fill their ice-time quota. He commented on this a few weeks ago. He's not capable of acknowledging that maybe they should lose that privilege due to shit play. It's one of the league's worst PK's, and his mindset is STILL "These are my chosen boys. What do I have to do in practice or say to them to make it work? We'll just keep working on it every day and try to get better..." That's why you haven't seen Kapanen get a chance, no matter how bad it is and how strong Kap was at it in Toronto. You won't in the future either. He doesn't fit the prerequisites.
They allowed yet another PP goal last game, and the Flyers could have had more easily. Jarry stoned them. Pens were letting them encroach into the high danger areas more easily than I've ever seen. Even when Sully watched the tape back, it still won't be enough to sound the warning bells in his mind.

- PP is much the same story. He has his core 5 guys, who all were part of the Cup runs. Locked in. Kap only got a chance there when Sid was out. Zucker and Matheson weren't even a consideration. Doesn't matter what either of those 3 guys bring. It will remain in tact until injuries happen. Rank 26 be damned.

- What about D-pairs? Remember when Dumoulin-Letang were attached at the hip in 2017-18 when both were goddamn awful? Remember how long that went on? Even if POJ played Victor Hedman level and complimented Letang better than any one he's ever had before, that spot would still be Dumo's when he returns. They are the preset #1 pair. In Sullivan's mind, Dumoulin is an extremely reliable, stay at home D who compliments Letang perfectly and allows him to play his game, right? Sure, that's been true in the past. But what if Dumoulin is awful for the remainder of the season? What if his injuries significantly hamper his play? Do you think that would make any difference? Do you think there's anything that could possibly happen to make him reconsider if it's still effective? No chance in hell.
And Sullivan is currently hunting for his established 2nd pair. He didn't have a preset one because we let go of a few blue liners in the off-season and that jumbled up the system. But the process is underway.
Ruhwedel has been labeled as his #7 this year. Doesn't matter how well he played. Riikola is his #8 or #9. Taxi squad material. POJ only got to play because of injuries. Doesn't matter that he was one of our best D in camp. Pettersson has been offensive to watch as a viewer the last stretch, but who cares? He's not a candidate to be removed. Locked in.

In Sullivan's first two years he wasn't rigid like this. He had a fresh perspective of this team. The bias hadn't set in yet. Performance actually dictated lineup decisions. You didn't get your spot cemented just by virtue of the coach assigning you roles for the long haul. You had to earn it and if you sucked you were removed.

Over time he's steadily veered away from that accountability, and funnily enough the Penguins performance has followed the same trajectory.
Excellent analysis, got nothing to add to this! Interesting this morning Steiggy of all people said it’s time for Sid to be Second line center, not because is second best, but it would serve the team best and we would get more offensively with Geno between our two best wingers
 

HandshakeLine

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In Sullivan's first two years he wasn't rigid like this. He had a fresh perspective of this team. The bias hadn't set in yet. Performance actually dictated lineup decisions. You didn't get your spot cemented just by virtue of the coach assigning you roles for the long haul. You had to earn it and if you sucked you were removed.

Over time he's steadily veered away from that accountability, and funnily enough the Penguins performance has followed the same trajectory.

This was an excellent post, I just wanted to highlight this last bit especially.

We talk a lot about players needing to rediscover what made their games good, but not enough about coaches, I think. A coach can fail in more ways than just losing the room, and for whatever reason, there's a lot of resistance to people discussing that (not just here, but in any sort of sports forum). Coaches can get into ruts, they can become inflexible, they can lose vision and get complacent just as much as any player. For as much as we bag on the stars for mailing it in, we should be willing and able to point out where coaches are doing it too.
 

LOGiK

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Last below freezing weekend, probably for this winter season.. so I will watch both games, although 1pm games are bad time slots.

This week the weather is 50-60's so time to crack the winter shell.... no more being indoors most of the day with nothing to watch but hockey.
Pens have to compete with warmer weather for my viewership... don't think they'll win there either.
 

Darren McCord

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That is almost as creepy as Japanese Anime.

I don’t know whether to say it’s brilliant or hate you for the nightmare fuel.

I was going for both.
 

Andy99

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...
 

Pittsburgh1776

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Lots of good ideas on what's going on with Sullivan in this thread. He clearly was a great coach when he came to this team, no amount of post-Cup sniping from some posters here is going to convince me otherwise. He still has a lot of the hallmarks of a very good coach. He provides structure, a great practice, very professional day to day operations...but the actual business of coaching and what decisions he makes have gone downhill steadily. He is not flexible. It's very frustrating to watch him lock this team down and prevent us from reaching our potential. If he isn't willing to change he needs to go.
 
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ownal

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...

And the entire league knows this as well. They are exploiting it nicely. This will be cleaned up a bit with Dumo back.
 
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eXile3

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...

It's almost like they're being coached to do it, which I hope isn't the case. Last game, I think it was the 3rd goal for Philly, Marino was going behind the net to stop the cycle instead or protecting the most dangerous area of the ice. It happens all the all time.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Yeah, "notoriously tough to play against in close" Dumoulin. :laugh: Hope his game comes back improved on what we've seen lately, because he's been bad. His new routine is dropping to one knee or on his stomach whenever anything is happening within 20ft of the crease, and it's getting to be a little too Scuderi-like in its ineffectiveness.
 

Pens x

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...
todd-reirden.gif


He’s awful at coaching the PP and sucks at creating any defensive structure. He was an awful hire, and it’s even more of a mistake to continue to employ this clown.

How does ownership not make a change? I understand Pettersson isn’t physically able to clear the crease, but the rest should know not to leave opposing players standing in front of Jarry.
 
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ZorkEnchanter

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...

You've seen the pics I post. I'd say half or more are UNCOVERED from there... it crazy:

5 v 5 (previous game)
upload_2021-3-6_8-19-8.png


1 month ago:
upload_2021-3-6_8-22-18.png


beginning of the season when everyone was blaming Jarry. We gave up multiple PP goals a game and this.
upload_2021-3-6_8-24-38.png
 

vodeni

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...
Assuming that coaches don't tell them to move away from that area and not defend hard, the players either don't have desire to be there, the make up fo d-man are such that thats not what they are used to do, or they don't give a shit...in which case wtf are coaches doing...these 7-8 defenders look on paper as good as any in NHL...Sully got to go...
 
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Pens x

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Assuming that coaches don't tell them to move away from that area and not defend hard, the players either don't have desire to be there, the make up fo d-man are such that thats not what they are used to do, or they don't give a shit...in which case wtf are coaches doing...these 7-8 defenders look on paper as good as any in NHL...Sully got to go...
Reirden and Vellucci are pretty awful too. Our special teams are a disgrace. You need to clean house behind the bench.

Is there a rule about signing coaches, but not announcing it. So, could we hire Gallant today and let him quarantine here for the required amount of time before announcing it? Let Sully and his gang of idiots mismanage this team for another week, then fire their asses.

JR made plenty of mistakes this past off season, but it seems his biggest blunders were the coaching hires.
 
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ownal

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Yeah, "notoriously tough to play against in close" Dumoulin. :laugh: Hope his game comes back improved on what we've seen lately, because he's been bad. His new routine is dropping to one knee or on his stomach whenever anything is happening within 20ft of the crease, and it's getting to be a little too Scuderi-like in its ineffectiveness.

Kind of a stretch. I agree though we need to see Dumo back to his game. That won't be hard with Letang back to his.
 

Bingo71

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Pens give up 2.29 goals against per game from the inner slot overall/ 1.57 GAA at 5-on-5. They’re dead last in both categories.

Worst defensive team in the league defending the crease...this is not on one or two players only...
It’s certainly a structure and lack of discipline issue, but the reality is that the Pens do not have anyone capable of clearing the crease.
 

vodeni

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Reirden and Vellucci are pretty awful too. Our special teams are a disgrace. You need to clean house behind the bench.

Is there a rule about signing coaches, but not announcing it. So, could we hire Gallant today and let him quarantine here for the required amount of time before announcing it? Let Sully and his gang of idiots mismanage this team for another week, then fire their asses.

JR made plenty of mistakes this past off season, but it seems his biggest blunders were the coaching hires.
Vellucci is a joke cause it appears he is responsible for PK, in which case Sully is responsible if his deputy sucks. Rierden, not sure, what was his duty with Trotz when Caps won the cup? I guess Trotz is defensive mastermind so not sure...in any case assuming that they know what needs to be done, there is certainly feeling they don't know how to implement that or convey the meassage, I mean you can put team of scrubs and clog the zone and area around the goal ..
 
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vodeni

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It’s certainly a structure and lack of discipline issue, but the reality is that the Pens do not have anyone capable of clearing the crease.
I am not buying that...its not magical skill, its friggin determination and fight they can find 3 scrubs to do that..if our Defensive defensman are: Dumo, Marino and Petts, than either make them do what they need to do, teach them of if they are not teachable replace them with the ones that are...that Lezzotte looks big down in AHL or whoever else
 
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