Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v3 | Thu, May 23 | @ Det | 6:30pm ET/3:30pm PT | Gausman vs Flaherty

[The Nemesis]

I enjoy watching baseball and only really enjoy watching Blue Jays games (aside from the playoffs).

Also, I have watched the Jays, Leafs and Raptors through both their tough times and good times. Suffering through mediocrity is what makes a true fan appreciative of success.

Watching the Jays is easy after I just came from watching the 23-24 Sharks do what they just did last season

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The team sucks. Some very odd decisions in the offseason to bring in IKF and to bring back KK. They were poor decisions, if Bo and Jr can’t carry the team we’re f***ed and all season long they have been the ones needing carried.

It’s time to blow it up, this core will never win.

 

[trellaine201]

As much as i love the guy, i just don't know how you commit to him as he's a free agent...

I wouldn’t pay him much more than he is making now. And I really like him as well. He is injured too much. Unfortunately.

 

[MK78]

Wow they squeak it out!

 

[canucksfan]

That was a fun game

 

[MK78]

The team sucks. Some very odd decisions in the offseason to bring in IKF and to bring back KK. They were poor decisions, if Bo and Jr can’t carry the team we’re f***ed and all season long they have been the ones needing carried.

IKF hasn't been that bad so far. he's a utility guy,

KK, yeah especially that they knew that he had a nagging foot issue that bothered him for the 2nd half of last year and that he was rehabbing it in the offseason.

 

[Discoverer]

Great pitching and defense is always fun to watch. That was a good one.

 

[Discoverer]

Vladdy's having some amazing at bats. The lack of power is weird considering the quality of contact he's making is as good as it's ever been, but he's been on base 15 times the last the last 5 games and now has a 126 wRC+ and a .376 OBP. I think we're gonna start seeing the HR start flying out pretty soon.

 

[Cleetus]

Watching the Jays is easy after I just came from watching the 23-24 Sharks do what they just did last season

it will be worth it with Celebrini lol, nice work by the jays tonight!

 

[The Nemesis]

it will be worth it with Celebrini lol, nice work by the jays tonight!

Yeah, that worked out nicely because he was fated to be a Shark given that he already was one when he was younger:

(He's #17)

 

[Suntouchable13]

I overreacted about the lineup earlier today, not knowing that guys are still not feeling well and Jano had some back spasms. My bad on that one. But anyway, great way to grind out a win shorthanded against a great team. 1-0 against the Orioles so far. I'll take it after 3-10 last year, off to a good start at least.

 

[canucksfan]

I thought this graphic was interesting. Wouldn't be able to know but would be cool to see the data from 2021 and 2022. Also, I heard on the broadcast that Hague wants the Jays to do damage on pitches which is something I have not heard much this year. It's been using all fields and shit like that from meathead Mattingly.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Great pitching and defense is always fun to watch. That was a good one.

Yep - great game..

 

[Eyedea]

I thought this graphic was interesting. Wouldn't be able to know but would be cool to see the data from 2021 and 2022. Also, I heard on the broadcast that Hague wants the Jays to do damage on pitches which is something I have not heard much this year. It's been using all fields and shit like that from meathead Mattingly.

The other graphic Eno posts about short/long swings vs FBs is interesting. A short swing might give you a smaller drop off in performance when hitting low velo vs high velo, but longer swings do more damage against low velo FBs.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Berrios deserved a win tonight. I’m glad that Vladdy and Bo have picked up their game. But holy smokes is Kirk having terrible at bats. Whose brilliant idea was it to have two unproductive and slow players like Kirk and Vogelbach in the middle of the lineup? Of course it’s the brilliant Schneider, galaxy braining.

 

[Discoverer]

Berrios deserved a win tonight. I’m glad that Vladdy and Bo have picked up their game. But holy smokes is Kirk having terrible at bats. Whose brilliant idea was it to have two unproductive and slow players like Kirk and Vogelbach in the middle of the lineup? Of course it’s the brilliant Schneider, galaxy braining.

Kirk has a 127 wRC+ over the last month. Vogelbach ended up having one of the biggest hits of the game. Hitting them back to back makes the most sense since they're both going to slow down whoever's behind them.

The only change I could really see a strong argument for from yesterday's lineup would be moving Clement ahead of those two - IKF and Biggio aren't hitting well at all - so I guess you could say they were one spot too high in the lineup. Meh.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Kirk has a 127 wRC+ over the last month. Vogelbach ended up having one of the biggest hits of the game. Hitting them back to back makes the most sense since they're both going to slow down whoever's behind them.

The only change I could really see a strong argument for from yesterday's lineup would be moving Clement ahead of those two - IKF and Biggio aren't hitting well at all - so I guess you could say they were one spot too high in the lineup. Meh.

You’re advocating that Kirk’s at-bats have been fine because he has an above average wRC+? You can’t just take one stat like that and justify his poor offence. He’s hitting .188 with an OPS of .535. His swings were gawd-awful last night. He’s a black hole on the basepaths. He doesn’t hit for power. I see no redeeming qualities in his offence last year or this year. But yeah, he’s got a decent wRC+ this month.

Vogelbach is hitting .118 with an SLG of .176 for a guy who’s supposed to supply power. Watching he and Kirk go 1 for 7 back to back while Vladdy and Bichette were a combined 4-6 in front of them and getting on base 6 times was frustrating to watch. Schneider has been clueless putting together lineups this season. Don’t agree with putting them together from a run producing standpoint behind our best hitters.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Jeez, Vladdy 3 singles again last night. IT’s great, but where are the extra base hits? Surely those will come too if he keeps hitting like this?

 

[Discoverer]

You’re advocating that Kirk’s at-bats have been fine because he has an above average wRC+? You can’t just take one stat like that and justify his poor offence. He’s hitting .188 with an OPS of .535. His swings were gawd-awful last night. He’s a black hole on the basepaths. He doesn’t hit for power. I see no redeeming qualities in his offence last year or this year. But yeah, he’s got a decent wRC+ this month.

Vogelbach is hitting .118 with an SLG of .176 for a guy who’s supposed to supply power. Watching he and Kirk go 1 for 7 back to back while Vladdy and Bichette were a combined 4-6 in front of them and getting on base 6 times was frustrating to watch. Schneider has been clueless putting together lineups this season. Don’t agree with putting them together from a run producing standpoint behind our best hitters.

Kirk having a couple terrible at bats last night doesn't change the fact that he's been having great at bats over the last month, which happens to coincide with Danny Jansen coming back and taking some of the pressure off. Look at any stat you want over the last month:

14.3% walk rate
9.7% K rate
.357 OBP
.786 OPS
.171 ISO (3 doubles and a HR in those 12 games)

He's barely been chasing anything and barely had any swing and misses. He had a really terrible start, but that seems to be mostly behind him at this point since he's turned things around and started producing.

Vogelbach is a different story since he's just been awful all year so far. But even then... who should have moved up last night? I can see the argument for Clement, and I would have been fine with that - I think they need to give him more opportunities in general. But IKF and Biggio? They don't provide anything more, and they certainly didn't last night.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Kirk having a couple terrible at bats last night doesn't change the fact that he's been having great at bats over the last month, which happens to coincide with Danny Jansen coming back and taking some of the pressure off. Look at any stat you want over the last month:

14.3% walk rate
9.7% K rate
.357 OBP
.786 OPS
.171 ISO (3 doubles and a HR in those 12 games)

He's barely been chasing anything and barely had any swing and misses. He had a really terrible start, but that seems to be mostly behind him at this point since he's turned things around and started producing.

Vogelbach is a different story since he's just been awful all year so far. But even then... who should have moved up last night? I can see the argument for Clement, and I would have been fine with that - I think they need to give him more opportunities in general. But IKF and Biggio? They don't provide anything more, and they certainly didn't last night.

You think you've seen enough from him lately to think that he's turned around his two season drop in play? Granted, his KK/BB has been the same the past 3 seasons, so he doesn't whiff alot but I still see a .188 BA and a .535 OPS today which is underwhelming by any standard. As recent as two weeks ago, he had a wRC+ of 61 which is atrocious. He also had a 45.5% groundball rate, which paired with his sprint speed in the 1st percentile, led to him being a prime candidate for double plays (as we saw last night). In fact, since the beginning of 2023 he was tied for 5th in all of baseball in that category. I haven't seen enough to say he's back to the player we all thought he was in 2022 but I do appreciate your undying support for underachieving Jays.

 

[MS]

There have been some weird lineup decisions this year but given who/how many players were unavailable I think they got it pretty much exactly right.

 

[Discoverer]

You think you've seen enough from him lately to think that he's turned around his two season drop in play? Granted, his KK/BB has been the same the past 3 seasons, so he doesn't whiff alot but I still see a .188 BA and a .535 OPS today which is underwhelming by any standard. As recent as two weeks ago, he had a wRC+ of 61 which is atrocious. He also had a 45.5% groundball rate, which paired with his sprint speed in the 1st percentile, led to him being a prime candidate for double plays (as we saw last night). In fact, since the beginning of 2023 he was tied for 5th in all of baseball in that category. I haven't seen enough to say he's back to the player we all thought he was in 2022 but I do appreciate your undying support for underachieving Jays.

"Undying support for underachieving Jays"? Half of the premise of my argument is that there are a bunch of players who are playing like garbage right now and don't deserve to be moved up ahead of where Kirk was last night.

I've always supported giving players more/less playing time and moving them up and down in the lineup based on how they're playing. That's why Clement continuing to hit 9th and not getting many starts is so frustrating. But Kirk has also been hitting well recently while Biggio (31 wRC+ in the last month) and IKF (73) have been awful.

Vogelbach shouldn't be getting much playing time, but they didn't have any other choice but to use him yesterday. He probably should have been in the bottom third of the lineup, but sometimes you go with your gut and hope a guy hits one out.

 

[The Nemesis]

I just went to turn the game on and apparently it's rained out or whatever. There's just a ticker notice to say it's been postponed until the end of July.

 

[MK78]

They said on the radio tomorrow's afternoon game is also in jeopardy depends on the rain.

 

[canucksfan]

Really interesting thread on swing speed. Basically, Jays can swing hard but often don't but unclear why.

I am wondering if it is because of the approach or not getting their swing consistent enough.

EDIT: The frustrating part is the Jays offense would be much better if they swung harder more consistently. Which is why I wanted at minimum a change in hitting coaches last offseason but it didn't happen.