Wasn't McDavid really really young when he started to draw attention? In Finland the talented kids can begin to make names for themselves in the local hockey circles from 11-12y onward (if not sooner), but it's never really nation-wide. Anyway I don't necessarily disagree with the notion of tracking and discussing about players who are this young being morally speaking on the fringe. Though at the same time when you have a kid like Kiviharju for instance who is absolutely dominating against his peers and scoring points like he was a forward, it's kind of interesting experiment to see if the talent and dominance can last through the time all the way up the draft year. Speaking of which, his parent club has released an online article about him already with a title of "best defenceman of his age class" so it's kind of difficult to go unnoticed for the people who are following young promising talents.
Wasn't McDavid really really young when he started to draw attention? In Finland the talented kids can begin to make names for themselves in the local hockey circles from 11-12y onward (if not sooner), but it's never really nation-wide. Anyway I don't necessarily disagree with the notion of tracking and discussing about players who are this young being morally speaking on the fringe. Though at the same time when you have a kid like Kiviharju for instance who is absolutely dominating against his peers and scoring points like he was a forward, it's kind of interesting experiment to see if the talent and dominance can last through the time all the way up the draft year. Speaking of which, his parent club has released an online article about him already with a title of "best defenceman of his age class" so it's kind of difficult to go unnoticed for the people who are following young promising talents.
Wasn't McDavid really really young when he started to draw attention? In Finland the talented kids can begin to make names for themselves in the local hockey circles from 11-12y onward (if not sooner), but it's never really nation-wide. Anyway I don't necessarily disagree with the notion of tracking and discussing about players who are this young being morally speaking on the fringe. Though at the same time when you have a kid like Kiviharju for instance who is absolutely dominating against his peers and scoring points like he was a forward, it's kind of interesting experiment to see if the talent and dominance can last through the time all the way up the draft year. Speaking of which, his parent club has released an online article about him already with a title of "best defenceman of his age class" so it's kind of difficult to go unnoticed for the people who are following young promising talents.
I don't remember McDavid getting serious hype until about 14 or 15. Mitch Marner had a small local piece done on him at 4. It is more the expectation placed on by outside sources that get ridiculous. And, in a lot of cases such as that Aito kid from Japan, it is done by self-promoting coaches skill-coaches. Mathias-Emilio Petterson is probably the youngest person to have a thread about them. Instead of looking at him now as a kid who got drafted out of a small country like Norway, many have viewed him as a disappointment for 3 years before because he never became a 1st round talent.
Its bad enough having local people overhype these kids so they are, giving it further validation by it being an online discussion just further validates something in which the odds of making it are very slim.
Well, how to put this? "Good" isn't nearly enough. I'd say that if he was playing like this at the age of 14 rather than 12, he still would be considered a top talent, and the best D for his age group. Some of the things he does - Many of the things he does - You just don't see nearly anyone, even much older doing. This still is Finnish C2 AAA. It's a pretty competitive league. This is the level where many of the top talents have emerged(Laine, Puljujärvi, Aho, Simontaival, Aaltonen, Nordgren, Heiskanen, Kokkonen, Nikkanen, Borgström, list goes on and on). However, a defenseman playing 2 years above their age group at this level? I just haven't seen such a thing and I've looked up dozens of somewhat decent defensive prospects over the years. Of course, it's possible that someone got a couple of games up there but playing a full season up there? Even for forwards, playing 2 years above their age group at this age is extraordinarily rare. And he's not some huge player who only gets by due to his physical development. He is about average sized in the games he plays. Remember, even Mikko Kokkonen wasn't playing in C2 AAA at this age, and Kokkonen's an extreme case of "early developer". And Kiviharju definitely doesn't dominate physically.
His play in the preseason games has been absolutely mindblowing. Last season, I had several issues with his play(Effort level, defensive play in general, floating), but this year he seems to have taken several steps up. It's completely ridiculous to watch, especially considering that it's players 2 years above his age group that he's playing against. It honestly gives me the feeling that you couldn't even put him with players "only" 1 year above his age group(Still a very rare feat for defensemen), as it'd just be so incredibly unfair to them. Especially the game today was completely absurd. He scored 2 goals, generated half a dozen chances and was extremely good defensively, never caught out of position - Not even once. He even engages physically and uses his body to compete now, against players 2 years older.
He does the smallest things that I just see essentially no one doing, especially a 12-year-old. He often body fakes or "twitches" to throw the trailer off when he's being pressured, he gestures to make a pass and does something completely different, which with the slightest of movements oftentimes completely misleads the other player. And the hands are so fast. One thing he also has added is that he snipes slow passes. And the pass doesn't initially have to be anywhere near him. He predicts it and gets to it. Of course, it's not very useful for NHL where people can pass hard but... Shows hockey IQ, etc.
Well, I thought I'd include a couple of clips. The first one is his 2 goals from tonight. Especially the second one - A shorthanded GWG - Was completely ridiculous. On the second clip, I included 2 coast-to-coast rushes and the majority of one shift that I just liked overall. I think it showcases a couple of attributes I like about him well.
If you really want to get into this then here we go. (Players are loosely ranked but separated by country)
Canada:
Jordan Gavin
Michael Hage
Thomas Mrsic (not a spelling error)
Clarke Caswell
USA:
Cole Eiserman
Thomas Zocco
Trevor Connelly
Kamil Bednarik
Finland:
Aron Kiviharju <—— THIS KID IS ****ING INSANE
Kiviharju is a 06 playing with 03s. He played in the World Selects Invite U12s as a ****ing 9 year old and then lead all defensemen in points
If you really want to get into this then here we go. (Players are loosely ranked but separated by country)
Canada:
Jordan Gavin
Michael Hage
Thomas Mrsic (not a spelling error)
Clarke Caswell
USA:
Cole Eiserman
Thomas Zocco
Trevor Connelly
Kamil Bednarik
Finland:
Aron Kiviharju <—— THIS KID IS ****ING INSANE
Kiviharju is a 06 playing with 03s. He played in the World Selects Invite U12s as a ****ing 9 year old and then lead all defensemen in points
These threads are too premature, so I don't like to name names, but for the two from Semi A1 it seems odd to overlook a certain kid on NSWC A1 and another on BWC A1 that came over from NSWC.
and no, none of them are my kid, but ohsix and his friends play against them
Maybe some of you know about the Québec pee wee tournament every year where pee wee teams (or equivalent) from all over come to play in Quebec . I haven't kept tab recently but I remember a young player who was the star of tournament and ended up in the NHL....Paul kariya..
Even at such a young age the highly gifted set themselves apart and many become NHl stars
The best play on words I have ever seen on this website was back during the lockout, and someone started a 2009 Finnish prospects page (kids who were 14 years old at the time). When he/she asked something like, "Which 2009 Finnish eligibles look good so far?" someone replied, "Itstuu Soonanen."
Maybe some of you know about the Québec pee wee tournament every year where pee wee teams (or equivalent) from all over come to play in Quebec . I haven't kept tab recently but I remember a young player who was the star of tournament and ended up in the NHL....Paul kariya..
Even at such a young age the highly gifted set themselves apart and many become NHl stars
By the way, why would it be OK to talk about some random highlights but not be OK to talk about extremely good hockey players, for this age?
I honestly don't get this. What happened to "if you don't like the thread, don't post in it"? After all, in figure skating, skaters are already in limelights at the age of 13.
Then feel free to post about figure skaters in their own thread.
Pretty sure that half of the names listed in the OP will be labeled as busts within 3 years because they will fall off the radar.
The reality is that we all see kids dominate at really young ages due to having one really exceptional skill (for the age group) but there is so much less structure as all of these kids learn that there is almost no projection possible in virtually every case.
I mean my son was really good at constructing lego kits without looking at the instructions when he was younger but he never went on to become or even be interested in anything close to a career in engineering or constructing objects.
Rumours are that some of the players have a bit of an attitude problem, complaining about too many chocolate timbits in their boxes and not enough of those yummy jelly ones.
Then feel free to post about figure skaters in their own thread.
Pretty sure that half of the names listed in the OP will be labeled as busts within 3 years because they will fall off the radar.
The reality is that we all see kids dominate at really young ages due to having one really exceptional skill (for the age group) but there is so much less structure as all of these kids learn that there is almost no projection possible in virtually every case.
It's not even about "dominating", it's about playing at a level extremely few players have ever played at before at the age. That sort of a thing isn't just something that happens every now and then. Additionally, when it comes to C-juniors in Finland, that's a competitive level. It's not just for fun, there are many "for fun" alternatives, but C-juniors are competitive and proper training is expected.
When Bobby Orr got signed at the age of 14, do you think the people who signed him thought they should "just let kids have fun"? When the 13-year-old Wayne Gretzky got mentioned in the "looking to the future"-article in 1974 do you think he didn't pan out? A player doesn't need to be 15 or 16 if they're good enough.
It's not even about "dominating", it's about playing at a level extremely few players have ever played at before at the age. That sort of a thing isn't just something that happens every now and then. Additionally, when it comes to C-juniors in Finland, that's a competitive level. It's not just for fun, there are many "for fun" alternatives, but C-juniors are competitive and proper training is expected.
When Bobby Orr got signed at the age of 14, do you think the people who signed him thought they should "just let kids have fun"? When the 13-year-old Wayne Gretzky got mentioned in the "looking to the future"-article in 1974 do you think he didn't pan out? A player doesn't need to be 15 or 16 if they're good enough.
Orr and Gretzky are the most extreme outliers you could possibly mention. They are the exceptions that make the rule. An overwhelming majority of these so called "prodigies" won't make it to the NHL.
Orr and Gretzky are the most extreme outliers you could possibly mention. They are the exceptions that make the rule. An overwhelming majority of these so called "prodigies" won't make it to the NHL.
and that's the problem, if it was limited to one guy every several years or decades that does something extremely exceptional it would be one thing but the OP listed close to 30 guys without any additional information.
Is even one of them doing anything truly exceptional?
I mean the guy you posted about is now 13 playing in for Finland's TPS under 16 league and has a 6-0-3-3 line.
In the WSI U13's last year he finished tied for 28th in scoring.
going back in that tournament over time and you will find that alot of the top scorers have literally dropped out of sight and aren't anywhere near exceptional, nevermind elite or even very good prospects any more.
and that's the problem, if it was limited to one guy every several years or decades that does something extremely exceptional it would be one thing but the OP listed close to 30 guys without any additional information.
Is even one of them doing anything truly exceptional?
I mean the guy you posted about is now 13 playing in for Finland's TPS under 16 league and has a 6-0-3-3 line.
In the WSI U13's last year he finished tied for 28th in scoring.
going back in that tournament over time and you will find that alot of the top scorers have literally dropped out of sight and aren't anywhere near exceptional, never mind elite or even very good prospects any more.
While I haven't seen the player you're referring to play, I've followed Finnish prospects for nearly a decade and can't think of another who played at that level at such a young age, let alone a defenseman. Almost every player he faces was born in 2003, and he was born in 2006. For a player to play in that league as a double-underager is actually quite noteworthy, and the ones that do are usually kids who have matured early(which could well be the case with him).
and that's the problem, if it was limited to one guy every several years or decades that does something extremely exceptional it would be one thing but the OP listed close to 30 guys without any additional information.
Is even one of them doing anything truly exceptional?
I mean the guy you posted about is now 13 playing in for Finland's TPS under 16 league and has a 6-0-3-3 line.
In the WSI U13's last year he finished tied for 28th in scoring.
going back in that tournament over time and you will find that alot of the top scorers have literally dropped out of sight and aren't anywhere near exceptional, nevermind elite or even very good prospects any more.
He is the youngest ever to play in U16 league and youngest to score points there. And he doesn't have any physical advantage. He is small but because of his excellent skating he has had a chance to play on a higher level and play against guys over three years his age.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
