Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[Outl4w]

They were (mostly) the best affordable options.

Jeannot was got for a king's ransom quite the opposite of affordable then extending him giving him an unearned raise over 3 times his salary. At most a 3rd. He isn't injured according to JBB and was a zero impact for another first round loss.
We have never won a playoff series with Jeannot, why I said this trade closed the cup Contention window.

 

[Todd1a]

Jeannot was got for a king' sransom quite the opposite of affordable. At most a 3rd. He isn't injured according to JBB and was a zero impact for another first round loss.
We have never won a playoff series with Jeannot, why I said this trade closed the cup Contention window.

We haven’t won a playoff series since Ryan McDonagh was traded away

 

[Antiramie]

Your solution is to keep Cirelli, trade Point, and move Hagel to center.


What is phase two? Trade Hedman, Move Vasy to LD and put Fleury in net? Lol.

There's no way you trade Brayden Point after what he's done in the playoffs during those b2b years. He's getting 40 and 50 goals and your solution to alleviate cap space and make the team better is to keep the meddling 2C and jettison our legitimate 1C? That is wild as f***. You don't just move wingers to center with a snap of a finger. Hagel doesn't have the body strength to play center and it's a poor utilization of his speed and fantastic board play to pull him off the wing. Thats a great way to derail someone's career.

Cirelli has a shit ton of value and how people are selling low on him and thinking he has no value or negative value is beyond me. He's a 2C on a lot of teams. For our team, we are better off moving Cirelli and using that cap space to acquire a defenseman. When you have Point, Stamkos, and Paul as centers, you don't need an Anthony Cirelli at that point.

Our defense is the problem. Point's defensive play has been atrocious as of late. Our blue line is atrocious. If we can get a couple great defensive players for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It doesn't necessarily have to be Hagel that replaces him 1C...that was just spitballing. But I think we can definitely somewhat replace Point's production on the PP.

Cirelli doesn't have a shit ton of value. He's the 44th highest paid center and is the 64th highest producing center. You're not going to get a decent return for a guy who has shown in 7 seasons that 45 pts is his ceiling. Unless you think selling low is a great way to improve the roster. Hint...it isn't.

 

[Stammertime91]

Our defense is the problem. Point's defensive play has been atrocious as of late. Our blue line is atrocious. If we can get a couple great defensive players for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It doesn't necessarily have to be Hagel that replaces him 1C...that was just spitballing. But I think we can definitely somewhat replace Point's production on the PP.

Cirelli doesn't have a shit ton of value. He's the 44th highest paid center and is the 64th highest producing center. You're not going to get a decent return for a guy who has shown in 7 seasons that 45 pts is his ceiling. Unless you think selling low is a great way to improve the roster. Hint...it isn't.

Cirelli's money maker has not been production. That's our expectation and hope with a mediocre 5v5 Stamkos. On a team like Toronto, he's a perfect fit. There are plenty of teams that would make a hockey trade for a top 4 RD with Cirelli going the other way. That's his equivalent in defense. His defense compensates for being on the low end of 2C-paid players. That's exactly why I don't want him here but league wide, he absolutely has value.

The idea he has none or negative is ridiculous.

 

[Antiramie]

Cirelli's money maker has not been production. That's our expectation and hope with a mediocre 5v5 Stamkos. On a team like Toronto, he's a perfect fit. There are plenty of teams that would make a hockey trade for a top 4 RD with Cirelli going the other way. That's his equivalent in defense. His defense compensates for being on the low end of 2C-paid players. That's exactly why I don't want him here but league wide, he absolutely has value.

The idea he has none or negative is ridiculous.

Agree to disagree. I think he has more value on our team right now bc of his defense, and I think hockey (ie outside perspectives) largely values offensive production over intangibles. Both are reasons why I think we'd be better off keeping him than shipping him.

 

[Maelmoor]

We should keep Glendening, really solid fourth liner, good on the PK, scored some goals and is great at face-offs.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

We should keep Glendening, really solid fourth liner, good on the PK, scored some goals and is great at face-offs.

Glendening is a paradox to me. Looks slow as f*** and rarely an offensive threat much of the time, but then scores a big goal when you least expect it, solid PKer and wins faceoffs.

 

[JTBF81]

Yeah, it's likely Cirelli isn't getting moved anyway, but only a top 4 dman, and preferably an RD with term, should be of serious interest. If Tampa does trade him and doesn't shore up a serious area of need either with him or with the assets gained from him, it's another colossal blunder from JBB. I see fans of many other teams here and on other sites that are very interested if Cirelli wasnto become available. Granted they aren't making the trades, but I highly doubt that if JBB started shopping Cirelli, the phones wouldn't be lighting up with good offers for a 2C at a solid cap hit.

 

[Stammertime91]

We should keep Glendening, really solid fourth liner, good on the PK, scored some goals and is great at face-offs.

He's signed for another year. Only way he's out is by TDL if we are sellers. He's a good 4C but we need better wingers down there to complement him and presumably Paul at 3C.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Duclair at 4M just seems insane to me. Idk lol

Duclair at $1M on another roster sounds perfect to me

 

[Todd1a]

Duclair at $1M on another roster sounds perfect to me

I’d definitely sign duclair for 3 million I’m not interested in JBB finding me another Conor sheary instead lol

 

[Sky04]

Glendening is a paradox to me. Looks slow as f*** and rarely an offensive threat much of the time, but then scores a big goal when you least expect it, solid PKer and wins faceoffs.

In what world is Glendening slow.

 

[Outl4w]

We should keep Glendening, really solid fourth liner, good on the PK, scored some goals and is great at face-offs.

Yep. i wouldn't mind bringing Glendening, Watson, and Motte back. Especially Watson and Motte on league minimum deals again and depth.

 

[The Gongshow]

We haven’t won a playoff series since Ryan McDonagh was traded away

This is the more important and factual take.

We had alot of scoring and offensive weapons for our cups, but our defense and shutdown game was better. We'd take the lead and then shut down EVERYTHING. All in part to having a legit shutdown pair in 27 - 81. (Edit: it's pretty clear to see McDonagh carried Cernak on that line).

Serg as LD3 and Heddy being able to focus on offense (as well as not being over played during the regular season)

We went from having the best Dcore in the league to an AHL level one the last 2 years, mostly due to injuries but there is also a HUGE hole in our top 4. We desperate miss a legit shutdown who can play over 20 minutes a night. I think losing McDonagh was a big mistake.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

This is the more important and factual take.

We had alot of scoring and offensive weapons for our cups, but our defense and shutdown game was better. We'd take the lead and then shut down EVERYTHING. All in part to having a legit shutdown pair in 27 - 81. (Edit: it's pretty clear to see McDonagh carried Cernak on that line).

Serg as LD3 and Heddy being able to focus on offense (as well as not being over played during the regular season)

We went from having the best Dcore in the league to an AHL level one the last 2 years, mostly due to injuries but there is also a HUGE hole in our top 4. We desperate miss a legit shutdown who can play over 20 minutes a night. I think losing McDonagh was a big mistake.

A defense with Hedman, Sergachev and Cernak is "AHL level"?! Come on.

 

[NJBolt]

McDonagh was a huge loss. He hasn't been replaced. But I don't know if JBB had much other choice.

He traded a 33 year old player with 4 years at $6.75 million AAV for nothing. Basically, Nashville probably gets a couple of good years (which they have) and probably 1 or two bad years (which remains to be seen) for taking on a large contract.

If you don't trade McD, can you field a team last year? Probably couldn't do the Point, Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak signings.

If you had McD last year, do you see us getting to the Cup and beating Vegas? I don't.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing is the salary cap doing its job. The NHL doesn't want one team to dominate, much less a small market team.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

McDonagh was a huge loss. He hasn't been replaced. But I don't know if JBB had much other choice.

He traded a 33 year old player with 4 years at $6.75 million AAV for nothing. Basically, Nashville probably gets a couple of good years (which they have) and probably 1 or two bad years (which remains to be seen) for taking on a large contract.

If you don't trade McD, can you field a team last year? Probably couldn't do the Point, Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak signings.

If you had McD last year, do you see us getting to the Cup and beating Vegas? I don't.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing is the salary cap doing its job. The NHL doesn't want one team to dominate, much less a small market team.

You would have had to trade Sergachev, but you could have fetched a nice haul at the 2022 Draft for either picks/prospects.

 

[Byrddog]

The D core has a hole actually three Heddy Sergi and Cernak are servicable still in the top 4 .

As I have looked back over the last few seasons goal scoring has not been as bad I I thought it would have been only 3 goals under last years numbers. Problem is the other teams increased their production. I mean when you have 3 players above 40 goals it’s not hard to see how goal scoring was still above 3.5 per game but just barely. But the perfect storm has been the play of the defense in front of Vasy which made him look well average to below average. Hard to blame Vasi for it all when the D was so poor.

This left us in the position of needing more goals to be competitive night in night out and not streaky like our guys were not named Stamkos, Point or Kuch. This is why I have been critical of Cirelli and Hagel. You can not have these guys going 15 to 20 games without a goal or 10 games not hitting the score sheet at all. My situation is it’s win now, because it’s likely I will not be on this side of the grass by playoff time next year. The urgency for wanting more is steered selfishly by my health issues at the end of life. I have been called a fair weather fan because I keep up with 4 teams I call favorite teams. But for 50 years of playing and watching the game I want to experience as much success as possible. Now this is not a pity party either but when your is limited to what you do for entertainment you expand . The two cups were great even though many consider the accomplishment tainted by shortened seasons.

This team is in one hell of a fix currently. And it is GM induced, at this point I no longer expect that there will be changes as unpopular as it is what needs to be done costs at least Stammer and Cirelli and maybe another big salary. To refill the roster with players that are not scrubs.

 

[Outl4w]

McD for jeannot

 

[Maelmoor]

Glendening is a paradox to me. Looks slow as f*** and rarely an offensive threat much of the time, but then scores a big goal when you least expect it, solid PKer and wins faceoffs.

I think that's the definition of a fourth liner, if they would be more rounded they wouldn't be on the fourth line. I think the best fourth liners are those who accept their role, understand their limitations and try to use the strengths they have to their best ability (face-offs, PK, work ethic etc)

 

[Hoek]

You would have had to trade Sergachev, but you could have fetched a nice haul at the 2022 Draft for either picks/prospects.

Yeah I remember this being the debate at the time anyway. Keep McD and think short term, or hand the keys to Serg for the long term play. So far it looks like the latter hasn't paid off yet.

 

[DFC]

McDonagh was a huge loss. He hasn't been replaced. But I don't know if JBB had much other choice.

He traded a 33 year old player with 4 years at $6.75 million AAV for nothing. Basically, Nashville probably gets a couple of good years (which they have) and probably 1 or two bad years (which remains to be seen) for taking on a large contract.

If you don't trade McD, can you field a team last year? Probably couldn't do the Point, Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak signings.

If you had McD last year, do you see us getting to the Cup and beating Vegas? I don't.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing is the salary cap doing its job. The NHL doesn't want one team to dominate, much less a small market team.

I think the choice was to move Killorn sooner. Not because I didnt like Killer, but because McDonagh was almost impossible to replace.

 

[Sky04]

I think the choice was to move Killorn sooner. Not because I didnt like Killer, but because McDonagh was almost impossible to replace.

No the logical choice was Cirelli if you wanted to keep the stacked defense. Killorn was a much better forward than Cirelli last year and cap-wise you would've have to make another move to clear 2.5M in capspace for the differnce between Killorn and McDonagh compared to the 500k between Cirelli and McD. We had Colton and Paul last year to fill the center space also, moving Killer to fit McDonagh makes no sense considering there's a significant drop-off between Killorn and the next top-6 winger.

Hagel-Point-Kucherov
Stamkos-Paul-Killorn

Was the best ES top-6 scoring we had in awhile at the start of last year, it was ruined when Cirelli came back.

 

[larueskee]

Might want to try contacting teams in similar situations for a season or so. Take St. Louis, lots of trade potentials with term, ( mostly bad term ) but you all have some bad term too. Sergachev's deal not looking so great but many a team might like that deal. Might want to look at the Bolts win loss record while he was out. Looked pretty good to me. Trades are doable and unloading 8.5 million in cap for 7 seasons. Thats where I would start.