GDT: 2021 World Junior Summer Showcase

[GermanSpitfire]

I think I may have been wrong about Kleven. His hands and skating have really improved. Really liking this selection now.

His skating has always been pretty good, one of the biggest reasons why he was ranked so high on draft boards.

 

[Sweatred]

His skating has always been pretty good, one of the biggest reasons why he was ranked so high on draft boards.

I doubt anyone really new a thing about Klevin other than the stupid spamming (and subsequent belief) of that Twitter post claiming the goalie broke the puck out better.

 

[Micklebot]

I doubt anyone really new a thing about Klevin other than the stupid spamming (and subsequent belief) of that Twitter post claiming the goalie broke the puck out better.

Lots of people liked Kleven going into the draft, just because some stats watching guys on Twitter didn't doesn't mean nobody knew anything about him. The guy was on the US development team, not exactly a place where prospects are hidden from the public eye...

 

[Sweatred]

Lots of people liked Kleven going into the draft, just because some stats watching guys on Twitter didn't doesn't mean nobody knew anything about him. The guy was on the US development team, not exactly a place where prospects are hidden from the public eye...

Maybe ?? All I remember are the negative posts until the majority hive minders actually watched him play and the reality became fairly obvious .

 

[playasRus]

Maybe ?? All I remember are the negative posts until the majority hive minders actually watched him play and the reality became fairly obvious .

Could reuse your comment on Boucher just this past draft and he's obviously been more scouted as a 1st rounder, despite the pandemic.
Just because it's all negative doesn't mean no one knew a thing and are just spamming off a twitter comment.

The same thing that people criticize the Kleven pick for is identical to Boucher - could have had him next round.

 

[aragorn]

That's the problem though, it's a guess whether Boucher or Kleven for that matter could have been drafted later. They could also have been drafted by the very next team after their pick, we just don't know. And if that is the guy you want with the pick you currently have & don't want to lose him to someone else than pick him there & stop fretting over when you picked him.

What's important is that you got the guy you wanted regardless of when he was picked. Who knows or cares whether the guys picked after him turn out better or more productive, if the player you picked becomes more impactful to your team & that's what is most important here, that he helps the team win hockey games. Other guys may get more pts, but Boucher could impact games in such a way that it helps the team win more games. Do we want an 80 pt player on a last place team or a 50 pt player who does so many things well that it impacts the team to win games. I want them to win.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

What's important is that you got the guy you wanted regardless of when he was picked. Who knows or cares whether the guys picked after him turn out better or more productive, if the player you picked becomes more impactful to your team & that's what is most important here, that he helps the team win hockey games. Other guys may get more pts, but Boucher could impact games in such a way that it helps the team win more games. Do we want an 80 pt player on a last place team or a 50 pt player who does so many things well that it impacts the team to win games. I want them to win.

I take the 80 pt player 10 times out of 10.

If his team is last it's in spite of his play, not because of it.

 

[Sweatred]

Could reuse your comment on Boucher just this past draft and he's obviously been more scouted as a 1st rounder, despite the pandemic.
Just because it's all negative doesn't mean no one knew a thing and are just spamming off a twitter comment.

The same thing that people criticize the Kleven pick for is identical to Boucher - could have had him next round.

There is zero evidence to suggest Klevin “would have” been available in the 3rd round - if he was it would look really bad on the NHL scouts. Same for Boucher (less evidence to date) in 2ND RD.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

There is zero evidence to suggest Klevin “would have” been available in the 3rd round - if he was it would look really bad on the NHL scouts. Same for Boucher (less evidence to date) in 2ND RD.

I think you can take it a step farther, I'm pretty sure Kleven was a late 2nd and we took him slightly earlier and people thought we were unnecessarily aggressive because he could have fallen to use, but he wasn't a reach. I think it was the Jarventie pick alongside Kleven that made people got "WTF"? If I'm not mistaken Jarventie was the bigger reach.

 

[Micklebot]

I think you can take it a step farther, I'm pretty sure Kleven was a late 2nd and we took him slightly earlier and people thought we were unnecessarily aggressive because he could have fallen to use, but he wasn't a reach. I think it was the Jarventie pick alongside Kleven that made people got "WTF"? If I'm not mistaken Jarventie was the bigger reach.

Kind of depends on who you trust as your benchmark for reach.

Bob McKenzie had Kleven at 36 and Jarventie at 52, while Button had Jarventie at 36 and Kleven at 93.

Personally I had Kleven as a target for our last 2nd round pick (the one used for Sokolov) and Sokolov as a target for our 3rd (the one used for Merilainin). I came out pretty happy getting both even though they went earlier than I thought. Jarventie was on my radar, if memory serves I wanted Colangelo or Peterka there.

Truth is though, by the 2nd round, calling a pick a reach means you expected them to go two round later or more imo, the gap between guys at that point is not as big as some make it out as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DJB]

His skating has always been pretty good, one of the biggest reasons why he was ranked so high on draft boards.

It's been decent for a big guy but I never considered it an asset pre draft.

His decision making, hands and feet have really improved and that's all that matters.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Kind of depends on who you trust as your benchmark for reach.

Bob McKenzie had Kleven at 36 and Jarventie at 52, while Button had Jarventie at 36 and Kleven at 93.

Personally I had Kleven as a target for our last 2nd round pick (the one used for Sokolov) and Sokolov as a target for our 3rd (the one used for Merilainin). I came out pretty happy getting both even though they went earlier than I thought. Jarventie was on my radar, if memory serves I wanted Colangelo or Peterka there.

Truth is though, by the 2nd round, calling a pick a reach means you expected them to go two round later or more imo, the gap between guys at that point is not as big as some make it out as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, if the worst thing that happened is we got three players we wanted in the 1st and all three players were wanted in the 2nd and only gave up a 3rd that's a win.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

His skating has always been pretty good, one of the biggest reasons why he was ranked so high on draft boards.

It's been decent for a big guy but I never considered it an asset pre draft.

His decision making, hands and feet have really improved and that's all that matters.

Yup, DJB is right, his skating was good but it was choppy and a bit chaotic when pivoting and such, affected his stickhandling and decision making too--looked like he was putting too much emphasis on it. I did not know Kleven was the same person when I was trying to find him on the ice. He looked significantly more fluid.

 

[Sweatred]

Yup, DJB is right, his skating was good but it was choppy and a bit chaotic when pivoting and such, affected his stickhandling and decision making too--looked like he was putting too much emphasis on it. I did not know Kleven was the same person when I was trying to find him on the ice. He looked significantly more fluid.

The 2020 draft was Oct and he looked good at UND and WCJ two months later … hard to imagine he improved that much in a few months. I’ve only seen a few video clips from him but I can’t find the much evidence for the Concrete block hand Grenade reference some Internet scouts tried to push.

Do you know when you saw him that he looked like a lesser prospect?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The 2020 draft was Oct and he looked good at UND and WCJ two months later … hard to imagine he improved that much in a few months. I’ve only seen a few video clips from him but I can’t find the much evidence for the Concrete block hand Grenade reference some Internet scouts tried to push.

Do you know when you saw him that he looked like a lesser prospect?

What.

His skating and hands look more fluid in showcase than they did few months back. How is this hard to grasp and how does that infer he looked like a lesser prospect? You mean rawer?

 

[PlayOn]

That's the problem though, it's a guess whether Boucher or Kleven for that matter could have been drafted later. They could also have been drafted by the very next team after their pick, we just don't know. And if that is the guy you want with the pick you currently have & don't want to lose him to someone else than pick him there & stop fretting over when you picked him.

What's important is that you got the guy you wanted regardless of when he was picked. Who knows or cares whether the guys picked after him turn out better or more productive, if the player you picked becomes more impactful to your team & that's what is most important here, that he helps the team win hockey games. Other guys may get more pts, but Boucher could impact games in such a way that it helps the team win more games. Do we want an 80 pt player on a last place team or a 50 pt player who does so many things well that it impacts the team to win games. I want them to win.

I agree. I don’t understand the hoopla over when a player should have been taken. If Merilainen is a #1 goalie, do we really care if the Sens use a third or a fourth on him? Sure, maybe if you wait then you get two players you like, or maybe you lose out on the player you really wanted and the other guy busts. Hard to judge these types of decisions when the Sens know 10000x more about what other teams are looking to do than we do.

 

[Sweatred]

What.

His skating and hands look more fluid in showcase than they did few months back. How is this hard to grasp and how does that infer he looked like a lesser prospect? You mean rawer?

It’s not hard to grasp - I was asking about the evidence used to suggest he had poor hands - specifically I was asking about the dates …

If I understand correctly You are saying he looked good at the 2020 draft show case but weak 2-3 months before ?
So by draft time he was “good” … just trying to confirm. I’d like to see the footage of Clunky Klevin.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

It’s not hard to grasp - I was asking about the evidence used to suggest he had poor hands - specifically I was asking about the dates …

If I understand correctly You are saying he looked good at the 2020 draft show case but weak 2-3 months before ?
So by draft time he was “good” … just trying to confirm. I’d like to see the footage of Clunky Klevin.

Ohhh, no no, I meant he looks good now, in this current showcase, much improved from his play in UND few months back. Sorry for misunderstanding and if my post came off crude.

 

[Xspyrit]

Could reuse your comment on Boucher just this past draft and he's obviously been more scouted as a 1st rounder, despite the pandemic.
Just because it's all negative doesn't mean no one knew a thing and are just spamming off a twitter comment.

The same thing that people criticize the Kleven pick for is identical to Boucher - could have had him next round.

No chance, he was ranked 36th on Bob McKenzie's 2020 final list, which means REAL NHL teams had him on target (heard several sources here saying Montreal was taking him for sure at 47th or 48th)

Tyler Boucher was ranked 29th on McKenzie's list for the 2021 draft...

Which is a bit crazy when you think of it as the 2020 draft was much stronger.

And yes for Boucher as well, there was at least another NHL team that had him on target beofre he was "expected" (they talked about Rangers at 15th OA)

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[playasRus]

No chance, he was ranked 36th on Bob McKenzie's 2020 final list, which means REAL NHL teams had him on target (heard several sources here saying Montreal was taking him for sure at 47th or 48th)

Tyler Boucher was ranked 29th on McKenzie's list for the 2021 draft...

Which is a bit crazy when you think of it as the 2020 draft was much stronger.

And yes for Boucher as well, there was at least another NHL team that had him on target beofre he was "expected" (they talked about Rangers at 15th OA)

Oh, I am in support of the team picking who they want where they want. Just saying the general rhetoric that a player is a complete unknown because we shit on picks (be it accurately or not), is fallible.

I wouldn't even endorse trading down for an extra 3rd round pick if for example Ottawa was worried Boucher would be picked top 15 and all they could get was 18th. Or waiting for their 2nd round pick instead of trading up by packaging their 3rs for Kleven

 

[Sweatred]

Oh, I am in support of the team picking who they want where they want. Just saying the general rhetoric that a player is a complete unknown because we shit on picks (be it accurately or not), is fallible.

I wouldn't even endorse trading down for an extra 3rd round pick if for example Ottawa was worried Boucher would be picked top 15 and all they could get was 18th. Or waiting for their 2nd round pick instead of trading up by packaging their 3rs for Kleven

Great point - people always assume 2 mistakes when they suggest this type of trade.

1) the player the want will be available - fairly obvious that there is risk

2) that the Sens have any interest, with their lesser pick, in the type of player who will be available if say Boucher gets taken. The Sens may have no interest in the next best prospect at that pick. It’s hard enough to get elite talent and dropping 15 spots to give away top 10 talent is foolish if the talent isn’t there at 25 or wherever.

 

[OD99]

Great point - people always assume 2 mistakes when they suggest this type of trade.

1) the player the want will be available - fairly obvious that there is risk

2) that the Sens have any interest, with their lesser pick, in the type of player who will be available if say Boucher gets taken. The Sens may have no interest in the next best prospect at that pick. It’s hard enough to get elite talent and dropping 15 spots to give away top 10 talent is foolish if the talent isn’t there at 25 or wherever.

The 3rd is that you need a willing trading partner.

If other teams don't feel value in trading an asset to move up you are hosed. GMPD may have tried to swap picks with the next 4 teams for all we know.

 

[DrSense]

Pronman might not have been big on Sanderson a year ago, but certainly sang his praise in his latest article on the Athletic summarizing the top performers. Sanderson was basically the top standout.

Jake Sanderson, LHD, Ottawa (United States)
Sanderson was the best defenseman in the tournament and it wasn’t even that close between any of the other participants. His skating is a differentiator both defensively and offensively in how well he walked the line. He showed offensive touch, as much creativity with the puck as I’ve seen from him over the years to go, to go with his great skating and defending. He looks like a true upper echelon NHL prospect and honestly looked NHL ready as he enters his sophomore season at North Dakota.

 

[Xspyrit]

Oh, I am in support of the team picking who they want where they want. Just saying the general rhetoric that a player is a complete unknown because we shit on picks (be it accurately or not), is fallible.

I wouldn't even endorse trading down for an extra 3rd round pick if for example Ottawa was worried Boucher would be picked top 15 and all they could get was 18th. Or waiting for their 2nd round pick instead of trading up by packaging their 3rs for Kleven

Yeah and they have at least earned the benefit of the doubt.

Pinto was 45th on Bob's list and they picked him up 32nd despite Kaliyev (who was ranked #21), Lavoie (ranked #19), Robertson (#25), Brink (#26), etc still on board... It takes balls and it looks like they know what they're doing despite not making the expected/popular picks.

But they also have less margin for error for that reason.

One thing a lot of people have a hard time understanding

All that being said, this draft they really pushed farther than they ever did...

Will have to edit in a few minutes