2021 Seattle Expansion Draft (Seattle selects D. Gavin Bayruether)

[CBJWerenski8]

^^^^^
This.
This boils down the current problem to its core. LOFT.

which again a bring up the point

If the problem with the team is “lack of talent”, why isn’t Nyquist one of your protected?

 

[koteka]

which again a bring up the point

If the problem with the team is “lack of talent”, why isn’t Nyquist one of your protected?

Because Seattle won’t take him. And if they do, you can find a comparable guy for a similar cap hit.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Because Seattle won’t take him.

No? Why not? They’re going to try to replicate Vegas success and they picked guys like James Neal and David Perron. The only other attractive piece would be Kukan/Lehtonen. I have no idea about what’s going to be out there defensively for Seattle but if Nyquist is exposed (he probably won’t be) I’m fairly certain they’d snatch him up quickly.

Also in our case Nyquist >>>>>> Stenlund and Robinson

 

[MissADD]

If Nyquist is left unprotected, I can say with almost 100% certainty that Seattle snags him. Since he became a full time NHLer, he has hovered around the 50 point mark for the season. Even lasdt year he was on track for 48 points. I know the shoulder injury adds some iffyness to him, but a 50 point per season player for free is hard to say no too.

 

[koteka]

No? Why not? They’re going to try to replicate Vegas success and they picked guys like James Neal and David Perron. The only other attractive piece would be Kukan/Lehtonen. I have no idea about what’s going to be out there defensively for Seattle but if Nyquist is exposed (he probably won’t be) I’m fairly certain they’d snatch him up quickly.

Also in our case Nyquist >>>>>> Stenlund and Robinson

And 5 times as expensive. You can’t look at our team in a vacuum. They have 30 teams to choose from. They are not going to spend 2 years of $5.5 million cap hit on a soon to be 32 year old coming off shoulder surgery. They’ll spend $5.5 million guy from a team that gives them a good pick or a prospect. They’ll take a guy like Robinson or Kukan from the Jackets and trade him to a team for a B prospect who will be in the AHL for a year or two. Or a draft pick. They have to draft 30 guys. They can’t play 30 guys. They need prospects, too. Kukan will be selected by Seattle and end up on a team like Edmonton. Or Robinson will be selected by Seattle and end up on a team like Pittsburgh.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

And 5 times as expensive. You can’t look at our team in a vacuum. They have 30 teams to choose from. They are not going to spend 2 years of $5.5 million cap hit on a soon to be 32 year old coming off shoulder surgery. They’ll spend $5.5 million guy from a team that gives them a good pick or a prospect. They’ll take a guy like Robinson or Kukan from the Jackets and trade him to a team for a B prospect who will be in the AHL for a year or two. Or a draft pick. They have to draft 30 guys. They can’t play 30 guys. They need prospects, too. Kukan will be selected by Seattle and end up on a team like Edmonton. Or Robinson will be selected by Seattle and end up on a team like Pittsburgh.

James Neal made nearly identical to Nyquist.

 

[koteka]

James Neal made nearly identical to Nyquist.

James Neal was turning 29. He did have hand surgery. I’m thinking a soon to be 29 year old recovering from a hand surgery who just came off a run to the Stanley Cup finals is a better pick than a soon to be 32 year old coming off shoulder surgery who spent the last year in the toxic environment of the 2021 Blue Jackets.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

James Neal was turning 29. He did have hand surgery. I’m thinking a soon to be 29 year old recovering from a hand surgery who just came off a run to the Stanley Cup finals is a better pick than a soon to be 32 year old coming off shoulder surgery who spent the last year in the toxic environment of the 2021 Blue Jackets.

So both were older top 6 players coming off surgeries?

Nyquist hasn’t been around the team. At least not yet. The environment has no bearing on his likelihood to get picked.

 

[Cowumbus]

So both were older top 6 players coming off surgeries?

Nyquist hasn’t been around the team. At least not yet. The environment has no bearing on his likelihood to get picked.

Let’s see how Nyquist looks before deciding whether to protect him or not. I’m fine with letting him get selected (if it happens) and using that cap on a center.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Let’s see how Nyquist looks before deciding whether to protect him or not. I’m fine with letting him get selected (if it happens) and using that cap on a center.

Easier said than done, and in this scenario we’d also need two LWers.

 

[Cowumbus]

Easier said than done, and in this scenario we’d also need two LWers.

C > LW/RW

Laine prefers LW. Texier, Foudy etc.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

C > LW/RW

Laine prefers LW. Texier, Foudy etc.

agreed but LW would be a massive need as well

So 1 LWer. Maybe.

 

[Forepar]

which again a bring up the point

If the problem with the team is “lack of talent”, why isn’t Nyquist one of your protected?

Because if it is a LOFT problem, Nyquist is too old to be of much help by the time CBJ gets the LOFT problem fixed.
Maybe the LOFT problem is limited to the C position, but a) that still is a huge problem that will keep them from being PO team, let alone Cup contender; and b) I am worried that it goes beyond the C position.

Laine can shoot the hell out of the puck. He can pass when give space. He cannot drive play.
Cam is approaching the age of diminishing returns.
Jenner getting to that diminishing return stage, as much as I love his compete.
Foligno is close to done - great veteran, etc... but he is not talented any longer.

Bjorkstrand - talented. Top line talent.

Nyquist - Top 6 if healthy.


Who else is there that has shown they can handle/pass/score with any consistency whatsoever?
We lost our top 2 younger heavy bangers - the older bangers are on the way out, and the young kids are not ever going to be bangers. And they aren't showing enough skill yet either. Roslovic shows promise, but even he's 2 years away. Who else?

Yes, I understand that there are a few young players who need to further develop. Maybe they will, I hope they do - but they are a long way away. So what does CBJ do for the next 2/3 years?

Turtle, play D and rely on Korpi/Elvis/Tarasov with the current group and try to be competitive (Torts-style)? I'm ok with that for the next 6 games - the current coach/team still has to try to win, and that's all they have to offer to get W's. But in the long run, do they do that (hopefully not with the young group they have now, not built for that)?

Or do they re-build and change style of play/type of player as we transition out the core (which means a few lean years)? If its this rebuild, I don't see Nyquist as adding anything simply because of age. He's a good enough player for now, but I'd rather use his $$$ and value on attempts to find/develop C's using draft assets during those 2-3 years. He won't be useful by the time we get to the kids being ready.
I don't want to tank. Hell, I'd take turtling, D and goal-tending if that produces W's. Just feels like they are between a rock and hard place as far as the next 2-3 years are concerned.

 

[EspenK]

Just for debate, what about leaving Cam unprotected? Jackets have depth at RW and it would free up cap space. Protect Nyqvist to help LW and decide if he is worth re-signing a year down the road.

 

[koteka]

Just for debate, what about leaving Cam unprotected?

I made this argument last year. At that time I thought protecting 4 defensemen was the way to go. And I think letting Seattle take the back half of our bigger contracts makes a lot of sense. The one issue with Cam is he is literally invested in Columbus and Columbus youth hockey with the Battery. Since I care about Columbus hockey beyond the Jackets and I like what Cam has been doing in town, keeping him around also makes sense to me. Nyquist doesn’t have ties to Columbus and is coming off an injury. So I would prefer to expose him. But they are the same age, and Cam has the longer contract, so that argues against protecting Cam. Also, protecting 4 D is no longer something I would do.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I made this argument last year. At that time I thought protecting 4 defensemen was the way to go. And I think letting Seattle take the back half of our bigger contracts makes a lot of sense. The one issue with Cam is he is literally invested in Columbus and Columbus youth hockey with the Battery. Since I care about Columbus hockey beyond the Jackets and I like what Cam has been doing in town, keeping him around also makes sense to me. Nyquist doesn’t have ties to Columbus and is coming off an injury. So I would prefer to expose him. But they are the same age, and Cam has the longer contract, so that argues against protecting Cam. Also, protecting 4 D is no longer something I would do.

Great point about Atkinson's commitment to Columbus. While I don't buy that every player needs to do what you've said he's done,it's important that some do-especially for a non sellout environment which is still, in many ways, trying to establish itself in its market.

Atkinson does have a limited No Trade Clause. According to Capfriendly.com, he submits a 10 team no trade list may be able to include any expansion team and hence the draft for it. Or not. I don't know.

 

[koteka]

Great point about Atkinson's commitment to Columbus. While I don't buy that every player needs to do what you've said he's done,it's important that some do-especially for a non sellout environment which is still, in many ways, trying to establish itself in its market.

I agree 100%. We need 2 or 3 guys involved in the community that kids (and parents of kids) can see. And Cam being a part owner of the Battery probably helped get guys like Jared Boll and Fedor Tyutin involved there as well.

For our friends from Finland and elsewhere:
Battery Hockey Academy

Bobrovsky occasionally would invite youth hockey players to a suite to watch a game. A lot of people didn’t see that side of Bob while he was here. I know a couple of kids who did this. It makes such an impression on kids when something like that happens. Those kids are going to be talking about the time they met Bob and sat in a suite to watch a game for the rest of their lives.

 

[VT]

Because if it is a LOFT problem, Nyquist is too old to be of much help by the time CBJ gets the LOFT problem fixed.
Maybe the LOFT problem is limited to the C position, but a) that still is a huge problem that will keep them from being PO team, let alone Cup contender; and b) I am worried that it goes beyond the C position.

Laine can shoot the hell out of the puck. He can pass when give space. He cannot drive play.

Laine can drive play excelent. But nobody wanted to use it because he has an excelent shot.

Cam is approaching the age of diminishing returns.
Jenner getting to that diminishing return stage, as much as I love his compete.
Foligno is close to done - great veteran, etc... but he is not talented any longer.

Players like Foligno and Jenner are very important for every team. But it`s right so many plaers similar style aren`s so good. Especially if you have players for this game.

Bjorkstrand - talented. Top line talent.

Bjork is 26 year old. IMHO it isn`t age when he can say he`s a talent.

Nyquist - Top 6 if healthy.

Gustav is as old as Cam and after enough bad injury.

 

[koteka]

Assuming these are the choices for Seattle, who looks the most attractive right now?

Stenlund 30 games 5 g 5 a 10 points RFA
Robinson 51 games 7 g 7 a 14 points 1 year $975k
Kukan 32 games 1 g 4 a 5 points 1 year $1.65 mill

I think I’d take Robinson right now.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Yeah I would feel pretty confident that Seattle is taking Robinson right now

but I do think it’s too early. I think there’s going to be a flurry of moves, including by us, before the draft.

 

[majormajor]

Assuming these are the choices for Seattle, who looks the most attractive right now?

Stenlund 30 games 5 g 5 a 10 points RFA
Robinson 51 games 7 g 7 a 14 points 1 year $975k
Kukan 32 games 1 g 4 a 5 points 1 year $1.65 mill

I think I’d take Robinson right now.

It would be Robinson if we don't protect him (we should).

 

[VT]

If I understand right Nyquist can't be protect because he's on IR. In this case we can protect Robinson. If I'm wrong we can agreement with Seattle. I hope.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

In a vacuum it’s Robinson. Leaving aside maneuvering mentioned by CBJW, it could depend on who ends up being available from others teams. If Kukan is among the roster-able defensemen they can get, they may opt for him.

(Yes I realize you don’t have to have your exact roster built after the expansion draft.)

 

[EspenK]

Mock expansion draft 6.0: For the Seattle Kraken, now it’s getting real

Columbus Blue Jackets

The pick: Matiss Kivlenieks
The hardest call for Columbus is going to be what to do with Max Domi, who came over from Montreal in the Josh Anderson trade and had an underwhelming year. He earns $5.3 million and is UFA in 2022. It may well be the Blue Jackets that make him available to see if Seattle wants to take on that contract, which would further open up cap room on a team that’s already well-positioned to add via free agency if it chooses to do so. Dean Kukan would be another in a long-time of serviceable defencemen that Seattle could look at, but Kivlenieks is an intriguing option in goal. Elvis Merzlikins is exempt from the expansion draft; the feeling is Columbus will trade Merzlikins or Joonas Korpisalo at some point this summer because they have both Matiss Kivlenieks and Russian netminder Daniil Tarasov in the pipeline. Kivlenieks, at 24, could be a goalie of the future option for Seattle. Given the choices here, he might have the best long-term potential.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That’s interesting. My thought on Kiv - and I think? maybe? others’ as well is that he’s turned out better than we’d expected/hoped but that he’s still just a call-up guy.