2021 Roster Thread XVI - Where thoughts are both sweet and sour

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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Then you let a team overpay for the player then. There are other options out there and Jones isn’t really the best option to move major assets for.

So congrats on what?! Running an organization down the drain because you are overpaying like we have for the last 50 years…. I guess congrats guys!!
If you are consumed by fear of "overpaying," then you stay mired in mediocrity. We've got essentially the same roster that just missed the playoffs, but we didn't overpay! Whoop-dee-do. For the millionth time, this isn't playing the stock market. The goal is to win, not to avoid overpayments at all costs. Sometimes you have to "overpay" a little to improve your team. Especially when most of your hyped young players look like they were vastly overrated instead of ready to take over as the new core.
 
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Prongo

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I’m preparing myself for a Nate Schmidt type of acquisition so then we can watch Vancouver turn around and sign Hamilton. That’s what my body tells me will happen.
 
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Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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Which "solid veterans" on equivalent contracts are an upgrade? Pretty much none

If they do that then theyre creating a bigger problem while seeking to solve a problem that isn't a problem.

The current Ghost was a first pair caliber player on a cheap contract. That's your idea of easy to replace?

Being exposed in Dave Hakstol and co. coaching strategies clearly indicates that he's a problem. Ironically last year when this team went to the playoffs he was their best defenseman.
 
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Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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If you are consumed by fear of "overpaying," then you stay mired in mediocrity. We've got essentially the same roster that just missed the playoffs, but we didn't overpay! Whoop-dee-do. For the millionth time, this isn't playing the stock market. The goal is to win, not to avoid overpayments at all costs. Sometimes you have to "overpay" a little to improve your team. Especially when most of your hyped young players look like they were vastly overrated instead of ready to take over as the new core.

Seth Jones is not the guy who moves the needle. You don't overpay for that kind of player.
 
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Prongo

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If you are consumed by fear of "overpaying," then you stay mired in mediocrity. We've got essentially the same roster that just missed the playoffs, but we didn't overpay! Whoop-dee-do. For the millionth time, this isn't playing the stock market. The goal is to win, not to avoid overpayments at all costs. Sometimes you have to "overpay" a little to improve your team. Especially when most of your hyped young players look like they were vastly overrated instead of ready to take over as the new core.
I completely disagree. Look at the savy moves certain GMs made and had teams in the playoffs. Lightning/Carolina/Toronto even to some extent. Mired in mediocrity. What team have you been watching? That’s literally the definition of this franchise. You’re arguing for something that we have been doing for as long as I can remember but somehow the outcome is going to be different? I’m not sure I agree with that logic…
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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I wouldn't call it a huge hole, Provorov - Sanheim actually didn't look bad, if Sanheim is comfortable on the right side, problem solved.
And in a year or two, York and Zamula should be pushing for top 4 minutes.
It's not like say 2017-18, with Provorov - Ghost (exposed in the playoffs), AMac, Hagg, Manning, Gudas, Sanheim.

Fix the goalies and this is a playoff team.
Make a couple tweaks on top of that and this is a top 8 team.
Very dangerous to settle for "not bad" and to avoid major moves in order to wait years for prospects to develop. Then you end up with Hextall's five year+ run of mediocrity: the wasting of players in their prime, and the very significant chance that those prospects don't become high-end players. Oopsie! Sorry fans for throwing away the last half-decade or so!
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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Very dangerous to settle for "not bad" and to avoid major moves in order to wait years for prospects to develop. Then you end up with Hextall's five year+ run of mediocrity: the wasting of players in their prime, and the very significant chance that those prospects don't become high-end players. Oopsie! Sorry fans for throwing away the last half-decade or so!

Hextall actively ignored his coaching problem. His coach ran with the philosophy that Andrew MacDonald was a top 4 D. Heck they fired the PP coach while keeping Ian Laperriere, which was beyond baffling. Hextall also made his problem worse by signing guys like Dale Weise.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
I completely disagree. Look at the savy moves certain GMs made and had teams in the playoffs. Lightning/Carolina/Toronto even to some extent. Mired in mediocrity. What team have you been watching? That’s literally the definition of this franchise. You’re arguing for something that we have been doing for as long as I can remember but somehow the outcome is going to be different? I’m not sure I agree with that logic…
Awful examples. I have no clue what point you think you are making, but those "savvy" moves are contrary your premise.

Based on your premise, Tampa's trading 1st and 3rd round picks for pending UFA Savard was "overpaying" and should have been avoided.

Based on your premise, the Islanders' trading 1st and 4th round picks for pending UFAs Palmieri and Zajac was "overpaying" and should have been avoided.

Hell, based on your premise, the Habs' trading 3rd and 5th round picks for pending UFA Eric Staal probably equated to "overpaying" and should have been avoided.

All of these pending UFA acquisitions at the deadline have played significant roles in helping their teams advance to the "conference" finals, but would have been avoided if "overpayment" was the primary concern.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
Seth Jones is not the guy who moves the needle. You don't overpay for that kind of player.
Or maybe you are wrong. I think you are. And if the Flyers think Jones *is* a guy that will move the needle, then they should go for him hard, as those players aren't easy to acquire.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Hextall actively ignored his coaching problem. His coach ran with the philosophy that Andrew MacDonald was a top 4 D. Heck they fired the PP coach while keeping Ian Laperriere, which was beyond baffling. Hextall also made his problem worse by signing guys like Dale Weise.

More of the same from Fletcher, too. It's brutal insanity that this entire staff remains intact. At minimum, fire Dillabaugh.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
Most times when you “overpay”, you’ve been had. A team can change their roster without being played.
There's also the theory that the team that gets the best player in a trade wins the trade. The Flyers wouldn't be getting "played" unless Jones doesn't sign an extension. And I don't think they'd trade for him without feeling very confident that he'll sign an extension.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
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There's also the theory that the team that gets the best player in a trade wins the trade. The Flyers wouldn't be getting "played" unless Jones doesn't sign an extension. And I don't think they'd trade for him without feeling very confident that he'll sign an extension.

The Flyers can easily get played in a deal for Jones by dealing a player better than him and then succumbing to sunk-cost and paying him to remain.
 
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TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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Or maybe you are wrong. I think you are. And if the Flyers think Jones *is* a guy that will move the needle, then they should go for him hard, as those players aren't easy to acquire.
He would be our best defenseman. How much more do we need to move the needle?
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
The Flyers can easily get played in a deal for Jones by dealing a player better than him and then succumbing to sunk-cost and paying him to remain.
Well, you have a strong dislike for Jones (which is odd considering how much you like Ghost). I think most people around the league would laugh at the notion that either Sanheim or Konecny is a more valuable player than Seth Jones. Doesn't necessarily mean they're right, but your opinion about Jones not only isn't ironclad, it's in the minority.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
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He would be our best defenseman. How much more do we need to move the needle?

I mean he'd be our best defenseman not named Provorov, Ghost, or Sanheim. Solid chance that York surpasses him in terms of overall impact and results in short order, too.

Can't wait to shell out a prime roster player to pay 8mil for a middle/bottom pairing dman. He's not even the best dman on Columbus.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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Or maybe you are wrong. I think you are. And if the Flyers think Jones *is* a guy that will move the needle, then they should go for him hard, as those players aren't easy to acquire.

Thinking and actually moving the needle are two different things.

Also it's completely ignoring the salary cap and it's implications long term. If the Flyers acquire him you better believe they'll sign him for a 7 years/8 years deal at probably 7-8 milllion dollars. That's a lot of money for what I'd consider as neither being true #1 defenders (Provorov and Jones). Neither of those two belong on the power play and they'll be shoe horned into the #1 and #2 units. At that point I'm sure they'll avoid blame and everyone will cite the aging Giroux and Voracek as core problems.

What is it that makes you think Jones is going to provide that significant boost of play for $?

What the Flyers really need over everything else is finding those european difference makers like they've done in the past. I.E. Raffl / PEB. Cost controlled and positive on ice players.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Exactly. Yet another in a long list of examples of spreadsheet addicted hockey fans having their brains hijacked by a few "advanced stats."

You are aware that practical, eye-test examples galore have been presented to disprove his reputation, right?


Then again, you believe Hagg is better than Ghost so maybe player evaluation isn't your thing.
 
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