2021 Roster Thread XV - Where everyone is in agreement about what is needed

[sauce88]

I think you are greatly overestimating JVR’s value to the team going forward & how movable he is in a flat cap environment.

Seattle taking that full hit off their hands will have significant value to the Flyers in changing the makeup of their team.

Again, if Seattle takes JVR, you deal with it. You don't give up another asset for them to take a player. They're going to take a player regardless, let them take one and be done with it.

 

[deadhead]

I can’t see Nashville or Calgary taking Jake for Ellis or Monahan. If it could be done, Fletcher would be nuts to turn that down.

Nashville could use a playmaking forward, and that Ellis contract won't be easy to move with young D-men pushing for PT. It would be a trade of a bigger cap hit for a longer cap hit.

Monahan is another story, with 2 years left at $6.375M, they're not going to want an older player with a bigger cap hit. We'd have to throw in someone like Frost to make that work.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Again, if Seattle takes JVR, you deal with it. You don't give up another asset for them to take a player. They're going to take a player regardless, let them take one and be done with it.

You "deal with it"? Seattle taking JVR would help the Flyers. There are players the Flyers are going to want to target this offseason that are going to require more cap flexibility. The cap space means more to the Flyers going forward than JVR does. And I don't see Seattle doing the Flyers that favor without an incentive.

 

[sauce88]

Nashville could use a playmaking forward, and that Ellis contract won't be easy to move with young D-men pushing for PT. It would be a trade of a bigger cap hit for a longer cap hit.

Monahan is another story, with 2 years left at $6.375M, they're not going to want an older player with a bigger cap hit. We'd have to throw in someone like Frost to make that work.

I'd be ok with an Ellis trade if they really are going to go the route of trading for a RHD. I would rather that than overpaying in assets and cap space for Jones. Ideal situation would be signing Hamilton, but who knows where he wants to end up.

 

[sauce88]

You "deal with it"? Seattle taking JVR would help the Flyers. There are players the Flyers are going to want to target this offseason that are going to require more cap flexibility. The cap space means more to the Flyers going forward than JVR does. And I don't see Seattle doing the Flyers that favor without an incentive.

He's a serviceable player, he's the type of player that if you want to get rid of him, you trade for an asset, not attach an asset to give away. Someone made a list of possible available forwards for Seattle, and it seems like the Flyers would have the best two talent wise available in JVR or Voracek. Seattle taking one of them without incentive is very much in the realm of possibility.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Sometimes I understand and/or empathize with the fascination with acquiring big name players. Every team should explore adding a Panarin or Pettersson or Eichel when they become available. Even 2021 Gaudreau or Jones I understand because there was a high peak and reputation has a lag to it. Plus of course some players do bounce back.

It's the Bennett and Monahan types that make absolutely no sense to me. If you think the Flyers' forwards aren't committed defensively, wait until you get a glimpse of Sean Monahan. I don't think I would take roughly 2/13 of Monahan for free. You might be able to get 2 better ES players for the same amount of space.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He's a serviceable player, he's the type of player that if you want to get rid of him, you trade for an asset, not attach an asset to give away. Someone made a list of possible available forwards for Seattle, and it seems like the Flyers would have the best two talent wise available in JVR or Voracek. Seattle taking one of them without incentive is very much in the realm of possibility.

The asset is $7M of additional cap space in a flat cap environment that they will use on another player who is a better fit for what they want going forward.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The team is boring and mediocre because of Fletcher. He’s not going to be the one who changes that.

more boring and less competitive ?

#Flyerstypical most likely

 

[Ghosts Beer]

More cognitive dissonance.

Fletcher gets criticized for months for a lack of transactions. But suggest moving JVR, Sanhero, TK, or even Patrick in order to make significant roster adjustments & it’s met with hesitancy & mockery.

 

[Striiker]

Is there a term for when people take two different complaints, from two different groups, and combine them to pretend people are contradicting themselves?

It’s happening a lot lately.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I see this most ass of all threads is still ass.

 

[Tripod]

More cognitive dissonance.

Fletcher gets criticized for months for a lack of transactions. But suggest moving JVR, Sanhero, TK, or even Patrick in order to make significant roster adjustments & it’s met with hesitancy & mockery.

No. Most people have no issue trading people. People have issues GIVING players away for free when they are net positive for the team AND paying extra to move them. That's just a waste of assets for a "different" name...that you have to overpay in the UFA market....or trade for.

 

[Tripod]

Fwiw, looking on the Preds boards and there are more than one comment about Ellis like this one:

I don't think there will be many takers for Ellis. His style (small, not a good skater) is trending out of the league. Not to mention, Jones will be available this summer as will Dumba.

Seattle will be our best bet to get out of that contract.​

 

[deadhead]

Sometimes I understand and/or empathize with the fascination with acquiring big name players. Every team should explore adding a Panarin or Pettersson or Eichel when they become available. Even 2021 Gaudreau or Jones I understand because there was a high peak and reputation has a lag to it. Plus of course some players do bounce back.

It's the Bennett and Monahan types that make absolutely no sense to me. If you think the Flyers' forwards aren't committed defensively, wait until you get a glimpse of Sean Monahan. I don't think I would take roughly 2/13 of Monahan for free. You might be able to get 2 better ES players for the same amount of space.

Thing is, you also have a Tanev who looked butt ugly in Vancouver but revived in Calgary.
Sometimes it's a matter of identifying a player who looks lost on a bad team and buying cheap.

 

[deadhead]

No. Most people have no issue trading people. People have issues GIVING players away for free when they are net positive for the team AND paying extra to move them. That's just a waste of assets for a "different" name...that you have to overpay in the UFA market....or trade for.

You give away Vinnie, you trade JVR.
Though I'd rather move Voracek than JVR, JVR plays well with Hayes and has become a fixture on the PP in front of the net.

 

[Tripod]

Preds board ask if trading Ekholm to Philly:

Philly: 1st + Patrick/Frost + 2nd​

 

[TB87]

From an asset management and common sense perspective, “paying” Seattle to take JVR or Voracek is shortsighted.

Seattle is going to take 1 player. Let me take their player and move onto the offseason. There’s no need to bend over for Seattle. Chuck likes to be overly generous though in his dealings with other GM’s so this possibility exists...and I despise it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No. Most people have no issue trading people. People have issues GIVING players away for free when they are net positive for the team AND paying extra to move them. That's just a waste of assets for a "different" name...that you have to overpay in the UFA market....or trade for.

Then we must be reading different boards. Because any time I see a suggestion that involves moving Sanheim, TK, JVR, or even Ghost or Patrick, the default position of the vast majority of posters is to be against it.

And, again, giving Seattle a sweetener to take JVR isn’t giving away assets for free. It’s giving away assets in return for cap space & the ability to acquire a player they wouldn’t be able to acquire with JVR on the roster. A player they think will improve the team. That’s far from a “waste” if they use the space wisely.

 

[freakydallas13]

Ah yes. Life, death, and arguing over the Flyers in the offseason.

 

[Striiker]

Paying to make our roster worse is about as stupid of an idea as I can think of.

There’s zero upside.

 

[Tripod]

Then we must be reading different boards. Because any time I see a suggestion that involves moving Sanheim, TK, JVR, or even Ghost or Patrick, the default position of the vast majority of posters is to be against it.

And, again, giving Seattle a sweetener to take JVR isn’t giving away assets for free. It’s giving away assets in return for cap space & the ability to acquire a player they wouldn’t be able to acquire with JVR on the roster. A player they think will improve the team. That’s far from a “waste” if they use the space wisely.

So like lose JVR...add a sweetner....and use that money to sign another Hayes.

Losing someone to expansion is the rules. I am not adding extra to lose a certain guy just so we can waste it on a worse player.

It would be DIFFERENT if we had a legit, crap cap dump....like 10 million for Bobrovsky

 

[deadhead]

From an asset management and common sense perspective, “paying” Seattle to take JVR or Voracek is shortsighted.

Seattle is going to take 1 player. Let me take their player and move onto the offseason. There’s no need to bend over for Seattle. Chuck likes to be overly generous though in his dealings with other GM’s so this possibility exists...and I despise it.

Name one transaction so far where he overpaid.

Braun for 2nd and 3rd is the going rate for a veteran D-man, then resigned at a bargain rate.
Niskanen was a steal, even for one year, Gudas is a nice 3rd pair guy (in Wash and FLA), Niskanen was a legitimate top 4 guy.
Hayes got the market rate as a FA, including the NMC.
Grant, Thompson, low cost TDL acquisitions.
Simmons for Hartman & a 4th for Pitlick.

Yes, he got fleeced a decade ago and learned from it.
The ED, not sure if that was a miscalculation or pressure from his owner not to give up a "win now" asset.

 

[deadhead]

Preds board ask if trading Ekholm to Philly:

Philly: 1st + Patrick/Frost + 2nd​

Ekholm is a one year rental, that's way too much.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Thing is, you also have a Tanev who looked butt ugly in Vancouver but revived in Calgary.
Sometimes it's a matter of identifying a player who looks lost on a bad team and buying cheap.

Of course. I’m all for it as a concept. But 4 x 4.5 on Tanev at his age was basically full UFA rate for what he provides. I would not call that cheap.

And in Tanev’s case, we’re talking about one bad year. There were injuries of course, which is a major part of the risk of giving him term in his 30s. But on the ice, he had one bad year and a history of excellent defensive impact.

 

[Beef Invictus]

More cognitive dissonance.

Fletcher gets criticized for months for a lack of transactions. But suggest moving JVR, Sanhero, TK, or even Patrick in order to make significant roster adjustments & it’s met with hesitancy & mockery.

It's almost like there's a range of quality in potential moves, and moves aren't all equal.