2021 Roster Thread XV - Where everyone is in agreement about what is needed

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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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My current guess is that they’re going to trade something to Seattle to get them to take JVR. Maybe Patrick will do it.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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Yeah, Holmgren had a real penchant for boring teams. I hated making the playoffs

Holmgren is an interesting case study. He made some nice moves early on. He refused to blow things up when they should have been, and interestingly enough the man he then thrust into the GM role did the same thing.

He had his fingerprints all over Fletcher.

Is he the devil? No. Although the lack of whats in my eyes a clear direction with the club - the fault for that lies with a guy that was supposed to be the visionary. He was made team president when he probably should have gone riding his bicycle again.
 
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flyersnorth

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Oct 7, 2019
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The team is boring and mediocre because of Fletcher. He’s not going to be the one who changes that.

In part, yes. A lot is on Hextall too.

Homer was the last exciting GM we had until he had nothing left to trade away lol.

I'm still giving Fletch the summer to see what he can come up with.
 

Redpath

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Sep 30, 2011
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True. It’s impossible to have two bad coaches back-to-back. On top of an incomplete roster while rebuilding. Hakstol and AV have been great.

Probably the best players who are at fault, right? :laugh:

Well, three coaches in a row. All of whom were/are allegedly the worst thing to ever happen to the team. “This coach is the worst one yet!”

Perhaps our issue is that our “best players” are the “best” on a bad team, which is why we are, well, bad.

Probably just one more coaching change from finally turning a corner with those best players, right? :laugh:
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Did Eichel make Buffalo exciting?

Winning is exciting. Let's get back to Spring 2020.
 
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FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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Homer was a lot of negative things, but I wouldn't say "boring" was one while he was GM.

For sure, my reference wasnt so much so at him being at fault for the boring, but in large part having a hand for where we sit today.

You will likely see him again along with Clarke whenever Fletcher is let go. I dont buy that they don't have their hands in the cookie jar to some degree.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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Well, three coaches in a row. All of whom were/are allegedly the worst thing to ever happen to the team. “This coach is the worst one yet!”

Perhaps our issue is that our “best players” are the “best” on a bad team, which is why we are, well, bad.

Probably just one more coaching change from finally turning a corner with those best players, right? :laugh:
All three were bad. That’s a fact.

For the first two, the team had zero depth and were rebuilding. That’s also a fact.

Yet another fact is that the top players on this team are not, and never have been, the problem. Blaming them is the laziest thing that fans do. Expecting them to carry an entire roster by themselves, with zero help, trash goaltending, and idiot coaches, is misunderstanding how hockey works.
 
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sauce88

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Jul 6, 2011
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My current guess is that they’re going to trade something to Seattle to get them to take JVR. Maybe Patrick will do it.
That would be absolutely idiotic, par for the course of Fletcher getting bent over by another expansion team.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Yet another fact is that the top players on this team are not, and never have been, the problem. Blaming them is the laziest thing that fans do. Expecting them to carry an entire roster by themselves, with zero help, trash goaltending, and idiot coaches, is misunderstanding how hockey works.

Since 2017-18, when they weren't good enough to get out of the first round, they haven't been the solution either.
Our first line has never been as dominant as the perfection line (who is?).
So it has always been about the young players arriving and maturing.

Which is why the answer, if this team isn't a SC contender this season, is to move out some of the older veterans, clear cap room, and bring in a combination of patches (veteran D-man, goalie) and young assets this offseason. No high cost rentals (Jones).

G and Couts aren't going to make this team a cup contender, because they haven't.
It'll be players like Farabee, Frost, Allison, Foerster, Lindblom, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, York, Zamula, Hart, Ersson who'll have to do the heavy lifting in a couple of years.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
That would be absolutely idiotic, par for the course of Fletcher getting bent over by another expansion team.
They need the cap space since the cap is expected to stay flat. No team can afford to take on a $7M cap hit except Seattle. Seattle isn’t going to absorb it without an incentive. Patrick wants out & has been a huge bust. If trading Patrick gets them $7M in cap space it’s worth it.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,159
Pennsylvania
In part, yes. A lot is on Hextall too.

Homer was the last exciting GM we had until he had nothing left to trade away lol.

I'm still giving Fletch the summer to see what he can come up with.
Hextall gets full blame for Hakstol, yep.

But those years were drafting, rebuilding, and waiting for the prospects to make it, so the team being relatively boring is expected.
Fletcher has no excuse because he came in with a great prospect pool, great vets, and tons of cap space, which he’s squandered with bad coaches and terrible additions.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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They need the cap space since the cap is expected to stay flat. No team can afford to take on a $7M cap hit except Seattle. Seattle isn’t going to absorb it without an incentive. Patrick wants out & has been a huge bust. If trading Patrick gets them $7M in cap space it’s worth it.

JVR isn't some dead contract you're trying to dump.
While he's a tougher trade in the flat cap era, he's worth keeping.
And he's certainly not worth paying to dump.

The Flyers will expose JVR, Voracek and Ghost, and force Seattle to take a contract without payment, or to take NAK, Braun or Hagg.
Then if Fletcher wants to make a move, he'll make a veteran for veteran trade (with money and assets evening out the deal).
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Our young forwards are nothing special.
Waiting on them without even trying to procure truly elite talent would be a fatal mistake.

What's special?
TK is a 40+ ES scorer at 23 years old.
Farabee was among the league leaders in pp/60 and goals/60 at 20 years old.
You think players like these grow on trees?
We have plenty of other young forwards with upside like Allison, Frost, Lindblom.
 

Redpath

Registered User
Sep 30, 2011
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All three were bad. That’s a fact.

For the first two, the team had zero depth and were rebuilding. That’s also a fact.

Yet another fact is that the top players on this team are not, and never have been, the problem. Blaming them is the laziest thing that fans do. Expecting them to carry an entire roster by themselves, with zero help, trash goaltending, and idiot coaches, is misunderstanding how hockey works.

I'm not just talking about being bad. I am talking about how they were all at their time to be inconceivably, insurmountably terrible, until suddenly the next guy is actually totally worse. People have been crying wolf for almost a decade now. Especially funny considering Berube has gone on to win a Cup. Routinely blaming coaching as the end-all issue is the laziest thing fans do.

The "best" players (i.e, the core of the team) are absolutely the problem. When your best goalie sucked, when your best 2C under-performed, when one of your best top 6 wingers has gone invisible, when your best four defenseman have not shown that they can be built around, that is the problem. The difference between this team being good or not is not Robert f***ing Hagg getting 6D minutes or not. The difference isn't Nate Thompson playing a couple games down the stretch. But trying to blame the players who aren't the "best" is a convenient deflection from any serious reflection on the team's makeup.

This season was such a failure that I wanted to see the coaching staff get cleared out. But larger issues still loom. And it isn't Fletcher's fault he inherited the mess he did.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
JVR isn't some dead contract you're trying to dump.
While he's a tougher trade in the flat cap era, he's worth keeping.
And he's certainly not worth paying to dump.

The Flyers will expose JVR, Voracek and Ghost, and force Seattle to take a contract without payment, or to take NAK, Braun or Hagg.
Then if Fletcher wants to make a move, he'll make a veteran for veteran trade (with money and assets evening out the deal).
I think you are greatly overestimating JVR’s value to the team going forward & how movable he is in a flat cap environment.

Seattle taking that full hit off their hands will have significant value to the Flyers in changing the makeup of their team.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,159
Pennsylvania
I'm not just talking about being bad. I am talking about how they were all at their time to be inconceivably, insurmountably terrible, until suddenly the next guy is actually totally worse. People have been crying wolf for almost a decade now. Especially funny considering Berube has gone on to win a Cup. Routinely blaming coaching as the end-all issue is the laziest thing fans do.

The "best" players (i.e, the core of the team) are absolutely the problem. When your best goalie sucked, when your best 2C under-performed, when one of your best top 6 wingers has gone invisible, when your best four defenseman have not shown that they can be built around, that is the problem. The difference between this team being good or not is not Robert f***ing Hagg getting 6D minutes or not. The difference isn't Nate Thompson playing a couple games down the stretch. But trying to blame the players who aren't the "best" is a convenient deflection from any serious reflection on the team's makeup.

This season was such a failure that I wanted to see the coaching staff get cleared out. But larger issues still loom. And it isn't Fletcher's fault he inherited the mess he did.
Other people being hyperbolic and calling each one the worst coach ever has nothing to do with me. It doesn’t invalidate the fact that each was bad and hurt the team.

Also, the people you’re naming as disappointments are not included when I’m talking about “our best players”. I’m talking about the guys who have been here the whole time and are still our best: Giroux, Couturier, and Voracek. They’re not the problem and never have been.
 
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