2021 Roster Thread XV - Where everyone is in agreement about what is needed

[CanadianFlyer88]

Another one of these?

Play nice.

Click to read more...

 

[FLYguy3911]

Just realized this is the last offseason we can dream on a Hagg trade. Free agent after the year since Fletcher bridged him to UFA.

 

[Striiker]

Just realized this is the last offseason we can dream on a Hagg trade. UFA after next season.

He’ll be re-signed.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I disagree that waiting for the luck to turn around is the right idea. I don’t want to wait 45 more years for the luck to change.
This roster is not good enough. Does not mean the core is bad. But changes are needed.
Oh and this is NOT a defense of the coaching staff. I have been critical of them as well. Status quo is not going to cut it

 

[FlyerNutter]

“Nothing”... except change 99% of the roster.

They did what you have to do to build a contender, except it hasn’t turned out like that yet, for a few key reasons. That doesn’t mean that path was/is wrong or that we need to drastically change course. They just need to stop making mistakes and get a little good luck to go their way.

Striike, I love you - but they didn’t. They picked top 5 once and “lucked” into it.

They were complacent in not maximizing their chances at truly establishing a new high end young core to take the torch. Some nice pieces, came out of the last few years - but that plan of hanging on to the veterans years ago is coming home to roost.

I just wish they would see it, instead of trudging along praying they catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[Tripod]

Dave Hakstol was.

View attachment 441178

Top pair in the traditional sense? No, I don't think so.

Top pair on aggregate in a top 4 with an even distribution of ice time, while getting max usage on the PP? I think there's a non-zero chance he's top pair quality. I feel more comfortable calling him middle pair in general, but if Ghost is playing on a team like Colorado (Makar, Girard, Toews, Byram) the perception of him is probably a lot different than it is now.

Fwiw, Evolving-Wild's model had him worth 7.7 million this season. +3 million surplus value.

I agree with middle pairing.

As for his "worth", Ghost the year before was at -3.5 million.....so overpaid 8 million. That's a wild swing in "value".

What value did they put on Hagg?

-3.5 million. Sorry it was not positive like you expected.

 

[flyersnorth]

He’ll be re-signed.

My reply got locked out of the other thread lol.

---

Good luck does go a long way for sure.

Makar instead of Patrick and we're laughing at whatever crappy team got Patrick.

Barzal instead of Provorov? We've got our 2C for now and eventual Coots replacement.

Panarin instead of Hayes, and whoa, all of a sudden we have the makings of a competitive team.

So, can you imagine Makar/Panarin/Barzal instead of Provorov/Patrick/Hayes? Sign me the f*** up for that.

But it didn't work out that way. Patrick was a mistake, Barzal was never going to go 7th except in hindsight, and Panarin was never going to sign in Philly.

But right here, right now, I think Fletch will do something rather 'big' because he's alluded to it quite openly that the mix is off. Doesn't really matter what we think - it sounds like it will happen.

Personally I agree that it's time for a shakeup move. Not core-busting. Not fire sale. But just something of significance.

Could go either way but given our crappy luck over the past decade, something has to break our way eventually, right?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Once more in an open thread, Gardiner isn't less because Carolina built a deep-ass team.

 

[Striiker]

Striike, I love you - but they didn’t. They picked top 5 once and “lucked” into it.

They were complacent in not maximizing their chances at truly establishing a new high end young core to take the torch. Some nice pieces, came out of the last few years - but that plan of hanging on to the veterans years ago is coming home to roost.

I just wish they would see it, instead of trudging along praying they catch lightning in a bottle.

I’m just talking about the general path of building through the draft. Not that they did it perfectly.

My point is, they didn’t do “nothing”.

 

[Curufinwe]

Once more in an open thread, Gardiner isn't less because Carolina built a deep-ass team.

He’s behind Maxime Lajoie on their playoff depth chart.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Simply because I always enjoy dragging others out when I have a chance. 4 hours driving into the bush. Welcome to Quesnel Lake watershed. Where Flyer woes come to an end, and vehicle suspension gets demolished.

Get out there boys. Wherever your “there” might be.

 

[FLYguy3911]

He’ll be re-signed.

Let me dream child.

I agree with middle pairing.

As for his "worth", Ghost the year before was at -3.5 million.....so overpaid 8 million. That's a wild swing in "value".

Yeah it's an actual results weighted model and not an expected results model. He's been positive by expected results every full season of his career.

 

[Tripod]

Once more in an open thread, Gardiner isn't less because Carolina built a deep-ass team.

Hasn't he been dealing with back issues still?

 

[deadhead]

My reply got locked out of the other thread lol.

Personally I agree that it's time for a shakeup move. Not core-busting. Not fire sale. But just something of significance.

Could go either way but given our crappy luck over the past decade, something has to break our way eventually, right?

Shakeup moves are for underachieving veteran teams.
"Over the top" moves are for teams that have fallen short for years and see their window closing.

Flyers are in neither group, rather, they're on the rebuild path we've seen with numerous teams, they're not good enough until they are, that is, when all those prospects start maturing. Some will flop, some will surprise.

If you're going to do a shakeup move, it should be Voracek and/or Ghost for veterans who aren't good fits or who are expendable on other teams - not touch the core young players. It's a flat cap for 3-4 more years (flat this year, maybe a $1M increase, $2M a year for a few years after that), so you can't take on salary without dumping salary, and you need to leave room for those RFA deals that will keep you under the cap as you add talent.

So any trade has to send as much salary out as we take in. Example, an Eichel trade would require TK and Ghost or Voracek and Hagg or some combination to match his $10M hit. As well as young assets, Buffalo will probably need one young cost controlled starter, a 1st rd pick and a top prospect, so TK, Frost, #13 and Ghost for the salary hit.

More likely is a Voracek for Ellis and Kunin type deal. We get paid extra for taking a longer deal off their hands, while its quality for quality.

But we're not trading a package of picks and young cheap players for an expensive veteran or one year of Jones then an expensive FA contract, might as well just sign Hamilton or another FA, because you're gonna have to shed salary (talent) to make it work.

 

[flyersnorth]

If you're going to do a shakeup move, it should be Voracek and/or Ghost for veterans who aren't good fits or who are expendable on other teams - not touch the core young players. It's a flat cap for 3-4 more years (flat this year, maybe a $1M increase, $2M a year for a few years after that), so you can't take on salary without dumping salary, and you need to leave room for those RFA deals that will keep you under the cap as you add talent.

In my head, Voracek is one of the guys I'd have on the trade list.

Not because I don't value him, because I do. But if I'm the GM looking at the long-term horizon of the team, the asset(s) you get back from moving a valuable guy like Voracek are probably better for the future of the team than Jake himself, who may only be here a few more years during a period which I highly doubt this team is a contender.

Losing him for nothing to Seattle opens up $8M+ in cap space, but it's like giving away an asset that has value for free. I don't like that.

The next few months should be a rollercoaster.

 

[Striiker]

The problem with all of this is that Fletcher is GM.

I’m not against making trades but so long as he’s in charge we’re going to both target the wrong people and overpay.

The less he does, the better.

 

[flyersnorth]

The problem with all of this is that Fletcher is GM.

I’m not against making trades but so long as he’s in charge we’re going to both target the wrong people and overpay.

The less he does, the better.

We'll see. I'm waiting until something actually happens before making up my mind.

I'm optimistic and hope that he can acquire exciting talent.

I'm so tired of watching mediocrity. When I see other teams, it's like they're playing another sport altogether.

 

[FlyerNutter]

We'll see. I'm waiting until something actually happens before making up my mind.

I'm optimistic and hope that he can acquire exciting talent.

I'm so tired of watching mediocrity. When I see other teams, it's like they're playing another sport altogether.

Shall see of course right?

Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised and he shoots for Eichel. I’d give him credit for that.

It doesn’t really seem the kind of tier he aims for with the Flyers but here is to hoping. AV and company remain but as you say the mediocrity is getting old. This is a boring team not just in results but how they play.

 

[Striiker]

The team is boring and mediocre because of Fletcher. He’s not going to be the one who changes that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He’s behind Maxime Lajoie on their playoff depth chart.

Depth charts are infallible measures of players. That's why we know Hagg is better than Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers.

 

[Redpath]

This team was boring under Hextall too, before Fletcher's fingerprints ever existed on the team. I wonder what the common theme is. How long can we (pretend) to ignore the elephant in the room?

 

[deadhead]

This team was boring under Hextall too, before Fletcher's fingerprints ever existed on the team. I wonder what the common theme is. How long can we (pretend) to ignore the elephant in the room?

Let's blow it up and rebuild, and really be boring for another five years.
The team is boring because most of the best talent wasn't on the team until recently.

Farabee ain't boring, Allison ain't boring, if Sanheim could finish he wouldn't be boring, Myers certainly isn't boring (exciting for both teams), Frost if he returns won't be boring . . .

As they get younger, deeper and faster, they won't be boring.
But hold on to those veterans, because we like boring.

 

[BritainStix]

My dream is that the Kraken pick JVR in the expansion draft, Voracek is traded in a big lockerroom shakeup for something like Monahan( who would give us a premier second line centre) or a package deal for Parayko.

Just have a f***ing ridiculous offseason.

Top 6 of

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
Lindblom/Allison - Monahan - Farabee

Or top 4 of

Provorov- Parayko
Sanheim - Myers

 

[Striiker]

Depth charts are infallible measures of players. That's why we know Hagg is better than Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers.

Braun must be our 2nd best defensemen because he was on the top pair.

 

[Striiker]

This team was boring under Hextall too, before Fletcher's fingerprints ever existed on the team. I wonder what the common theme is. How long can we (pretend) to ignore the elephant in the room?

The common theme is horrible coaching. Who hired AV?