2021 Offseason player / roster discussion: Who's Next, This Song is Over, Won't Get Fooled Again

[brian_griffin]

Continued from previous.

Click to read more...

 

[Der Jaeger]

My plan:

First move: Eichel to LA. Makes sense for LA as long as they don't give up Byfield. Add Ristolainen to the deal. He's a LA type of heavy player they'd need to a playoff run. And he's pending UFA, so if it doesn't work, no issues flipping him at the deadline. The Kings have about $20M to play with, so the cap won't play into this move much. LA can begin their playoff push next season, with Eichel, without gutting the team. Buffalo can add key players to the current core, which played well down the stretch. The players that LA has are the type Buffalo wants. This also helps Buffalo for the expansion draft. LA has room to protect Eichel, and Seattle isn't taking Ristolainen.

Eichel and Ristolainen to LA for Turcotte, Vilardi, Bjornfot, 2021 1st, 2022 1st

Second Move: 2021 3rd rounder (Florida) to Washington for Vanecek. Caps can't protect him, Buffalo can. Seems like a pretty simple pre-ED move.

Expansion Draft:
Forwards: Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Thompson, Asplund, Bjork, Skinner
Defense: Dahlin, Jokiharju, Borgen
Goaltender: Vanecek

Exposed (with term left): Okposo, Eakin, Girgensons, Miller, Toharski. No real loses among that group. I expect a choice between Miller and Girgensons. Miller is probably the choice, with Botterill in Seattle.

Third Move: Reinhart established himself as a top 6 center who can produce in the worst of situations. That's going to command more attention than I think fans think. Imagine you were a GM of another team, looking at Reinhart. On wing? Produces. Center? Produces. Good teammates? Produces and makes them better. Average to bad teammates? Still produces. He's got a Brayden Schenn trajectory, and he's at the point Philly traded him to St. Louis. The Blues switched him to center full time, and he's anchored their second line for a Cup team.

Calgary is a good landing spot for Reinhart. They've got Monahan and Backlund, but that's not getting them anywhere. The easy answer is to trade Gaudreau and Monahan, but they need someone to backfill Monahan before they make a move. Calgary might move Monahan for Reinhart, but that's more of a lateral move. They'd be better off landing Reinhart, then moving Gaudreau (Philly) to fill in the gaps. For Calgary to make this work, it's probably a futures deal for Buffalo.

Reinhart to Calgary for Connor Zary, Jacob Pelletier, and 2022 1st.

Draft:
1a: Matthew Beniers, C, Michigan. The no-brainer move. With the way Adams is building the roster, you couldn't draw up a better two way center who fits the line-up.
1b: Fyodor Svechkov, C, Ladia Togliatti (MHL and VHL). Superb two way ability who does all the little things right. No flashy but the kind of player who anchors a 3rd line for a Cup winner.
2a: Tyler Boucher, LW/RW, USA U18 (USHL). Tom Wilson-lite without the d-baggery.

Draft Day trade: 2021 2nd round pick (Boston) to NJ for Miles Wood. The Sabres need someone in the line-up to play at the net and bring some toughness.

Free Agency: Sabres lineup looks like they've got two big needs: Goaltender, Defense.

Goaltender: Ullmark is the add as a goaltender. He loves it in Buffalo, loves the support he's been given, and seems organizationally loyal. I'd also re-sign Houser as Rochester's goaltender as the back-up plan, since Ullmark is injury prone.

Defense: I'm really not interested in making a splash at RHD and pulling in a Dougie Hamilton. I'd much rather let the kids develop. He probably doesn't want to come to Buffalo either. I'd rather make a small, short term move here, adding a safe, defensive minded player (or two). So I'm good with adding Brendan Smith. Short term deal, dependable, easy to add into the roster and easy to move if a kid takes a spot.

Opening Night Line-up
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Thompson
Skinner - Cozens - Ruotsalainen
Bjork - Vilardi - Olofsson
Wood - Girgensons - Okposo
x Eakin, Murray

Dahlin - Jokiharju
Samuelsson - Smith
Bryson - Borgen
x Bjornfot

Ullmark, Vanecek

The key to this isn't who is one the roster... it's who's not on the roster and coming.

Center: Turcotte, Beniers, Zary, Svechkov
Winger: Pelletier, Quinn, Boucher, Pekar, Huglen, Weissbach, Rousek, Biro
Defense: Johnson, Laaksonen, Fitzgerald
Goaltender: Luukanen, Portillo

The opening night line-up is a pain-in-the-a$$ team to play because of their speed, forechecking, and puck movement skills. Then start adding in players like Turcotte and UPL as the season progresses. Quinn, Johnson, Zary, and Beniers could also play their way onto this team.

This is the re-start I'd want. Solid, young NHL line-up with a ton of kids coming.

 

[truthbluth]

My plan:

First move: Eichel to LA. Makes sense for LA as long as they don't give up Byfield. Add Ristolainen to the deal. He's a LA type of heavy player they'd need to a playoff run. And he's pending UFA, so if it doesn't work, no issues flipping him at the deadline. The Kings have about $20M to play with, so the cap won't play into this move much. LA can begin their playoff push next season, with Eichel, without gutting the team. Buffalo can add key players to the current core, which played well down the stretch. The players that LA has are the type Buffalo wants. This also helps Buffalo for the expansion draft. LA has room to protect Eichel, and Seattle isn't taking Ristolainen.

Eichel and Ristolainen to LA for Turcotte, Vilardi, Bjornfot, 2021 1st, 2022 1st

Second Move: 2021 3rd rounder (Florida) to Washington for Vanecek. Caps can't protect him, Buffalo can. Seems like a pretty simple pre-ED move.

Expansion Draft:
Forwards: Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Thompson, Asplund, Bjork, Skinner
Defense: Dahlin, Jokiharju, Borgen
Goaltender: Vanecek

Exposed (with term left): Okposo, Eakin, Girgensons, Miller, Toharski. No real loses among that group. I expect a choice between Miller and Girgensons. Miller is probably the choice, with Botterill in Seattle.

Third Move: Reinhart established himself as a top 6 center who can produce in the worst of situations. That's going to command more attention than I think fans think. Imagine you were a GM of another team, looking at Reinhart. On wing? Produces. Center? Produces. Good teammates? Produces and makes them better. Average to bad teammates? Still produces. He's got a Brayden Schenn trajectory, and he's at the point Philly traded him to St. Louis. The Blues switched him to center full time, and he's anchored their second line for a Cup team.

Calgary is a good landing spot for Reinhart. They've got Monahan and Backlund, but that's not getting them anywhere. The easy answer is to trade Gaudreau and Monahan, but they need someone to backfill Monahan before they make a move. Calgary might move Monahan for Reinhart, but that's more of a lateral move. They'd be better off landing Reinhart, then moving Gaudreau (Philly) to fill in the gaps. For Calgary to make this work, it's probably a futures deal for Buffalo.

Reinhart to Calgary for Connor Zary, Jacob Pelletier, and 2022 1st.

Draft:
1a: Matthew Beniers, C, Michigan. The no-brainer move. With the way Adams is building the roster, you couldn't draw up a better two way center who fits the line-up.
1b: Fyodor Svechkov, C, Ladia Togliatti (MHL and VHL). Superb two way ability who does all the little things right. No flashy but the kind of player who anchors a 3rd line for a Cup winner.
2a: Tyler Boucher, LW/RW, USA U18 (USHL). Tom Wilson-lite without the d-baggery.

Draft Day trade: 2021 2nd round pick (Boston) to NJ for Miles Wood. The Sabres need someone in the line-up to play at the net and bring some toughness.

Free Agency: Sabres lineup looks like they've got two big needs: Goaltender, Defense.

Goaltender: Ullmark is the add as a goaltender. He loves it in Buffalo, loves the support he's been given, and seems organizationally loyal. I'd also re-sign Houser as Rochester's goaltender as the back-up plan, since Ullmark is injury prone.

Defense: I'm really not interested in making a splash at RHD and pulling in a Dougie Hamilton. I'd much rather let the kids develop. He probably doesn't want to come to Buffalo either. I'd rather make a small, short term move here, adding a safe, defensive minded player (or two). So I'm good with adding Brendan Smith. Short term deal, dependable, easy to add into the roster and easy to move if a kid takes a spot.

Opening Night Line-up
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Thompson
Skinner - Cozens - Ruotsalainen
Bjork - Vilardi - Olofsson
Wood - Girgensons - Okposo
x Eakin, Murray

Dahlin - Jokiharju
Samuelsson - Smith
Bryson - Borgen
x Bjornfot

Ullmark, Vanecek

The key to this isn't who is one the roster... it's who's not on the roster and coming.

Center: Turcotte, Beniers, Zary, Svechkov
Winger: Pelletier, Quinn, Boucher, Pekar, Huglen, Weissbach, Rousek, Biro
Defense: Johnson, Laaksonen, Fitzgerald
Goaltender: Luukanen, Portillo

The opening night line-up is a pain-in-the-a$$ team to play because of their speed, forechecking, and puck movement skills. Then start adding in players like Turcotte and UPL as the season progresses. Quinn, Johnson, Zary, and Beniers could also play their way onto this team.

This is the re-start I'd want. Solid, young NHL line-up with a ton of kids coming.

I admire your optimism, but that lineup would struggle to win 15 games.

 

[brian_griffin]

Will listen to some of the exit interviews the rest of this week and Adams presser tomorrow. But, as a realist, I would expect negative vibes from a lot of people on the exit interviews. They went through a meat-grinder shortened and compressed season, dealt with COVID, had an 18-game losing streak, fired their coach, had a little bit of life and smiles on the ice after the firing (hopefully not a dead cat bounce), and now it's done until September.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I admire your optimism, but that lineup would struggle to win 15 games.

If you start counting games at Granato's 5th game, on March 27 when you could start to see the difference in the Sabres play, the team went 9-10-5 down the stretch.

23 points in 24 games isn't bad considering the circumstances.

I get that the team I projected wouldn't have Reinhart or Ristolainen, but you've also got to factor in progression from Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Cozens, etc. And better goaltending.

I think this team, with Granato coaching, goes into March in contention for the last playoff spot. And anything can happen then.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Dear Keyvn, Terry, and Kim,

I've never run a hockey organization, but I've run two Army Divisions, which are about 40k people. With the hockey folks you have in place, I could run your organization well. Just give me the keys until, say, July 10th. I got you.

Sincerely,
Der Jaeger

 

[Sabre the Win]

This was a reply I made to another poster in the last thread, a little insight into how I see the future without our current core.

I don't see a future as bleak as posters are painting it. When Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen were drafted this team was stripped bare. Our prospect pool was weak with the top player being Joel Armia who was then traded away and our top prospect was Grigorenko already playing in the NHL struggling, after Armia was traded away it was Bailey and Baptiste who we hoped were going to be good but didn't even show in the AHL let alone the NHL and a handful of hopefuls. Zadarov, Armia and JT Compher were the only ones in those early drafts that actually made somewhat of a career or a career in the NHL.

Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen ROR and Kane all played on a team still largely made up of barely AHLer's, when you turn over the organization as much as they did when tanking for McEichel you literally set those players up with no chance to succeed. Bylsma found a way to reach 80 points by playing a dump and chase boring trap system but headcase Eichel didn't like that and fired Byslma. Since then no coach as been able to replicate the system Eichel wants to play simply because we didn't have the speed and players.

Fast forward to today, our new base core is 100x's better than anything Reinhart and Eichel came into, any additions from their departures are only going to add to our depth. Our futures in the pipeline look solid compared to where they were when Joel Armia was top prospect and Grigorenko was playing in the NHL. This team going into next year without Eichel/Reinhart and Risto will actually have solid NHL potential players and barely no AHLers like the first core. Any players added this draft and in the future are going to be coming into a team who has been building for the last 10 years, at the fans misery, and be insulated by talent, not like Eichel and Reinhart were.

The new core is solid. Dahlin has the potential to be the game changer that Eichel is and Cozens and Mittlestadt seem like two future fine centers. If we happen to luck into Beniers and Wright or Bedard adding them ontop of the solid foundation we have now is going to pay off. Do you remember when we had an all AHL defense? Now we have huge potential and a generational DMan... Yes its gonna suck to lose the old core but at least during the accumulation of all the picks and prospects we have now, they made Sabres games bearable and helped branch the future to where its gonna be.

I enjoyed the Sabres in the last stretch with Granato than any team before and that was without Eichel, to say he wont be missed would be a lie but to say the team cant get worse. We are already at the bottom, dead last.. Only way to go from here is up.

Above in reply to:

lmao

Risto is 26, Reinhart is 25, Eichel is 24

"old core"

These are guys in their prime and as ROR and Taylor Hall have shown by going back to or exceeding their historical production, it's not the players that are the problem

Five years from now, people will be talking about how glad they are to move on from Dahlin and Cozens because they're "losers" and "couldn't accomplish anything," they'll immediately go on to become key pieces to whichever team is lucky enough to acquire them, just like ROR, Hall, and soon-to-be Eichel, Reinhart, and Risto

A hockey club run like a circus act and easily fooled fans are a terrible combo

I deleted the post in the other forum and placed it here, structured some sentences better to convey what I meant. I'm typing on the fly. Also wanted to make the reply more overall rather than direct.

 

[Der Jaeger]

boom!

 

[elchud]

boom!

Turcotte would be a great get, he drew comparisons to Ryan OReilly his draft season, maybe Toews-lite. High-end 2-way 2C. His only drawback is he is a bit short.

 

[sabremike]

Dear Keyvn, Terry, and Kim,

I've never run a hockey organization, but I've run two Army Divisions, which are about 40k people. With the hockey folks you have in place, I could run your organization well. Just give me the keys until, say, July 10th. I got you.

Sincerely,
Der Jaeger

Better idea: Use those divisions to storm KBC and liberate us from the Pegula tyranny!

 

[Fjordy]

boom!

Hmm, is this just a wish?

 

[2 others]

Yeah, that's really cool, Turcotte will make us forget Eichel played for the Sabres just like that...

 

[Der Jaeger]

Turcotte would be a great get, he drew comparisons to Ryan OReilly his draft season, maybe Toews-lite. High-end 2-way 2C. His only drawback is he is a bit short.

Yep. He's got ROR upside. He's a tad short, but he's stocky and doesn't play a game where his height is going to be much of an issue. I think he'll max out around 5-11/210.

Better idea: Use those divisions to storm KBC and liberate us from the Pegula tyranny!

Yeah, about that. PC Act, Insurrection Act, etc. Probably not happening.

Hmm, is this just a wish?

Nope, Chad D is reading the tea leaves the same way I am. But I was first (few months ago on the Turcotte as the target idea).

Yeah, that's really cool, Turcotte will make us forget Eichel played for the Sabres just like that...

Not totally and not by himself. But he'll be an elite pro and plays a playoff style, competitive game.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I’m pretty sure things will be ok after we trade Eichel and Reinhart. The hockey gods will be appeased.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

I can’t do this tank shit again. If we trade these guys can we at least throw some money at vets for one year deals? If free agency is anything like last year it would be nice to at least put a respectable team out there

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I can’t do this tank shit again. If we trade these guys can we at least throw some money at vets for one year deals? If free agency is anything like last year it would be nice to at least put a respectable team out there

Next season is chockful of top tier prospects including 2 on the Matthews tier so running a fun team of young talented players that play hard wouldn't be terrible.

 

[Vito_81]

What if Adams can talk Reinhart into a long term extension along with the C.

Sure he’s upset with the losing. But maybe becoming captain, along with a fat deal would help him stick out a short re-tooling process

 

[Selanne00008]

What if Adams can talk Reinhart into a long term extension along with the C.

Sure he’s upset with the losing. But maybe becoming captain, along with a fat deal would help him stick out a short re-tooling process

If I'm a pro hockey player in this type of situation, getting the C moves the needles exctly 0% for me. It's like saying "but we'll give you the keys to the city" umm ok, chee thx. but no thx.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

What if Adams can talk Reinhart into a long term extension along with the C.

Sure he’s upset with the losing. But maybe becoming captain, along with a fat deal would help him stick out a short re-tooling process

I am confident that Sam stays. No insider knowledge here, but he was on a 37 goal pace and is one of the most cerebral players in the game. He’s RFA. Tie him down to a long term deal.

AND HE CAN PLAY C! Who knew

 

[TehDoak]

Sure, it's a huge package of maybes. Turcotte played well at the WJCs, played really well this season in the AHL, and still projects as a top line center who plays a ROR's like game with speed. Vilardi is playing NHL minutes now and had a really good rookie season. Bjornfot projects as a shutdown defender and didn't look out of place in his first NHL games.

Girgensons projected to be a two way force. Nylander projected to be an elite sniper. Risto projected to be the next hedman

We need some proven talent. I've had a decade of failed projections.

In two years, Turcotte and Vilardi are top 6 anchors and Bjornfot is top 4 shutdown. That's better than what the Rangers are going to offer.

What the rangers are potentially offering is inconsequential to this discussion. I have no issue with the assets being offered, my issue is that we need some proven NHL pieces to have a team that isn't a dumpster fire next year.

Or, you protect the players you have and then use the war chest after the ED. Why rush before and make a move and expose a player for no reason?

Because the price before the ED will be significantly lower than after the ED for players that teams can't protect. Teams would rather recoup an asset instead of lose them for nothing

Why? If the Sabres are moving Eichel and Reinhart, you want to reinforce the roster with youth behind Dahlin, Mittelstadt, and Cozens.

I absolutely want youth. I also don't want a trash roster.

Yes, you can ice that line up. It's basically the same lineup the Sabres iced every game under Granato, minus Reinhart and Ristolainen. And that was a near .500 team who played really well once the streak was over. Kids like Dahlin, Mittelstadt, and Cozens are stepping into bigger roles and are only going to get better.

You want to move Reinhart for a player like Monahan and Eichel for the parts the Rangers will offer, fine. That's not for me. Give me the flood of kids. They showed they could handle it at the end of the year.

Near .500 is still terrible. We were 6-23-5 after the last loss in the streak. We finished 15-34-7. That's 9-11-2. Over 82 games that's a 75 pt team. That is still a top 10 pick. I'll also point out the roster is the same roster than lost 18 in a row. So picking a choosing the "best" part of the season to base your projections off probably isn't great. I'd say that is much closer to a 65 pt team than a 75 point team.

If we trade Eichel, we're going to get a f***ing bounty of players. There's zero reason we can't get some young-ish NHL players in there for immediate help as well as futures. We are probably going to take some salary back in ANY Eichel deal, so lets get good players instead of cap dumps. For once in our franchises history, let's take advantage of the expansion draft and our pending ample cap space while re-building our prospect system. There is zero reason we can't re stock our prospect coffers while adding current NHLers as well. Making the playoffs isnt some lofty goal, its being slightly above mediocre. Let's be the 2018 Bills and end the streak and squeak into the playoffs while realizing we still need to make some changes.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Hopefully Reinhart secretly hates Jack Eichel.

 

[Zman5778]

Yeah, that's really cool, Turcotte will make us forget Eichel played for the Sabres just like that...

We're never going to forget Eichel played for the Sabres. It's not possible.


But referencing some above posts: If we can flip Eichel for Turcotte and draft Beniers..........that is FOUR good-to-very good two-way centers in our pipeline: Beniers, Turcotte, Cozens, Mittelstadt. Shift one of them to wing and you've got 2/3rds of a dangerous two-way line.

 

[RWatson29]

If Reinhart leaves then we’re really screwed. Honestly as much as it sucks to have Eichel gone , we finished high as what? 24th with him? That’s not a knock solely on him, but we honestly can’t do any worse. If they can’t find decent value back for him and Reinhart can be convinced to stay, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal IMHO. Eichel is an awesome player yeah, he’s my favourite current player besides crosby. But he’s definitley not a captain or a leader by example. I feel like his negative attitude rubbed down the entire line up. I liked the way we played with granato down the stretch, it definitley gives me positive thoughts. The way some of these guys turned around 180 degrees (mittsy, asplund, dahkin, joker) is just a bonus. If we lose jack, we can still slot Sam into the first C slot. If we move both Sam and jack....... we’re definitely overpaying some danault idiot to come here which would be worst case scenario. Prayyyyy Sam can be talked into staying

 

[Beerz]

I'm praying for a Reinhart trade.

 

[Zman5778]

If Reinhart leaves then we’re really screwed. Honestly as much as it sucks to have Eichel gone , we finished high as what? 24th with him? That’s not a knock solely on him, but we honestly can’t do any worse.

Ryan O'Reilly never won anything and never won with Buffalo. We were always crap with him, we'd never win anything with him. Heck, we couldn't do any worse than Ryan O'Reilly.