WC: 2021 Norway Roster Talk

[Artorius Horus T]

D and goaltending should be decent... Going to be very light on goals.

When Haukeland is at his best game, he is great thou.

 

[Fjorden]

"Now three additional teams will have this Frisk Asker, Vålerenga and Stjernen will also build new arenas with north american size rink"

I think it's great that they are building new arenas, and they need at least two rinks one main surface and one for development. But in my opinion, they should stick to IIHF rink sized surfaces. I think the European sized rinks, tends to develop stronger skaters, and more entertaining games for our skill levels. And Stavanger and Vålerenga wouldn't be allowed to arrange any world or Olympic tournaments. In worst case go for the hybrid size like Finland and Czechs with 62 by 28 meters.

That statement in bold is wrong. IIHF only says that the width has to between 25-30 meters. In fact the olympics in Beijing will be on NHL rink, the worlds in 2022 will be on finnish rink size(hybrid) and the worlds in 2023 in Russia will be on NHL size. So having NHL size on the rink is not a lock to host internatnional tournamaents anymore It's up to the host.. However all those arenas have to small capacity anyway to host senior WC or Olympics. IIHF demands at least 8000 seating capacity for that, none of those arenas have that anyway. KHL will also switch to NHL size on their rinks. So when the next international tournaments will be played on NHL size I think it is good that we have NHL rinks here to practice on.

Which size is best is a discussion is pros and cons with both.

Page 22, rule 12 i)
"RULE 12 – STANDARD DIMENSIONS OF RINK i. For IIHF competitions, the recommended dimensions of the rink are 60 metres (197') long and 25 – 30 metres wide (82' – 98' 5")"
https://blob.iihf.com/iihf-media/ii...ok/iihf_official_rule_book_2018_ih_191114.pdf

 

[Fjorden]

Here is the final norwegian roster for the WC 2021.
New adds after the last denmark game Mathis Olimb(wolfsburg, DEL), Mats Rosseli Olsen(Frölunda,SHL) and Erlend Lesund(Rögle,SHL) and Michael Haga(Djurgården, SHL)

 

[A Bundy]

Could you say that this is a roster that could be at the same level as an average and fairly well-balanced SHL team? Question is maybe how well an average SHL team would do in WC, but think they could do allright. Norways historic advantage have maybe been that they have developed a team chemistry, with very small changes from tournament to tournament, and a coach (Johansen) who has prepped them really well physically before the tourneys. Some of that is lacking now, but interesting roster with exciting new additions. Something for the future. The team is relatively young, just too bad that the D lead Holøs and F lead Olimbs are the once up for retirement. Lilleberg, Holm, Pettersen, Arntzen are the ones I look forward to watch, along with Trettenes who looks like he has taken significant steps this season.

 

[BigBadBoar]

Could you say that this is a roster that could be at the same level as an average and fairly well-balanced SHL team? Question is maybe how well an average SHL team would do in WC, but think they could do allright. Norways historic advantage have maybe been that they have developed a team chemistry, with very small changes from tournament to tournament, and a coach (Johansen) who has prepped them really well physically before the tourneys. Some of that is lacking now, but interesting roster with exciting new additions. Something for the future. The team is relatively young, just too bad that the D lead Holøs and F lead Olimbs are the once up for retirement. Lilleberg, Holm, Pettersen, Arntzen are the ones I look forward to watch, along with Trettenes who looks like he has taken significant steps this season.

Yeah, I would say it is approx an average, maybe slightly above average SHL/Liiga/NL/Extraliga team. They are definitely going to beat Italy, especially after the team Italy was hit by the health issues so severely. I expect them to beat Kazakhstan too. At the same time, Germany and Latvia are probably going to be too much for them.

 

[Namejs]

Yeah, I would say it is approx an average, maybe slightly above average SHL/Liiga/NL/Extraliga team. They are definitely going to beat Italy, especially after the team Italy was hit by the health issues so severely. I expect them to beat Kazakhstan too. At the same time, Germany and Latvia are probably going to be too much for them.

Yeah, no, Norway is not an above average SHL side.

They're lacking any sort of firepower an SHL top line would have.

An average Liiga squad, sure.

The combined NHLe of Norway is actually lower than that of Kazakhstan, and it's going to be a very close match. Depending on how well the rookie goalie of Kazakhstan performs.

Hockey is a game of chance and it is certainly within the realm of possibility to even make the QFs, but realistically it's likely going to be a 6th or 7th-place finish.

 

[A Bundy]

I think with the Olimbs + Pettersen they have a legit 1st SHL line. Linköping HC at eliteprospects.com

 

[Eye of Ra]

I think with the Olimbs + Pettersen they have a legit 1st SHL line. Linköping HC at eliteprospects.com

well that was 3 seasons ago. olimbs are not even ppg in DEL.

 

[Namejs]

well that was 3 seasons ago. olimbs are not even ppg in DEL.

Yup, Olimbs are getting old. And even at their peak it would be a pretty shoddy top line. 0.50 PPG is not top line worthy.

 

[A Bundy]

M Olimb had a good play-off run: Elite Prospects - DEL Stats 2020-2021
Let's see

 

[BigBadBoar]

Yeah, no, Norway is not an above average SHL side.

They're lacking any sort of firepower an SHL top line would have.

An average Liiga squad, sure.

The combined NHLe of Norway is actually lower than that of Kazakhstan, and it's going to be a very close match. Depending on how well the rookie goalie of Kazakhstan performs.

Hockey is a game of chance and it is certainly within the realm of possibility to even make the QFs, but realistically it's likely going to be a 6th or 7th-place finish.

I don't think there is any substantial difference between these top 4 (roughly said) European leagues (excluding KHL of course, which is not exclusively European) in the terms of "quality", however fuzzy term it may be. As far as I use to watch the EHT games, players from Liiga, SHL, Extraliga are all performing on a very similar level, and I would say the Swiss NL is roughly on that level too. Not completely sure about DEL. There of course are differences between the leagues, with SHL teams substantially relying on young talents, Extraliga teams relying on more experienced guys and being very tactical, maybe even kind of system-bound sometimes, NL being very "North American" etc. So it is definitely difficult to compare the leagues, but at the end players from each of them are capable of competing each other quite equally.

I can agree the team Norway has not many typical goal scorers, on the other hand, they have got experience, have quite a number of players who can be physical and at the same time play a well organized game. I would say they are roughly an average squad of any of the mentioned 4 European leagues.

I my prediction, Norway ends 6th in the group. I still see them a little bit more coherent squad than Kazakhstan, at the same time not so skilled as Latvia and Germany. Of course they can lose to Kazakhstan and beat Germany, that may happen, it is a game after all, it would be boring if we could predict the results with precision.

 

[Namejs]

I don't think there is any substantial difference between these top 4 (roughly said) European leagues

There is. The difference between SHL and Liiga/Extraliga is about the same as the difference between Liiga/Extraliga and ICEHL.

SHL is closer to KHL.

Someone like Roberts Bukarts can score PPG in Extraliga, but to say that he's a 1st line guy in SHL would be a little funny.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Just like Namejs said, offense in the SHL is created by either having legitimate star players (Orebro or Leksands being best examples this year) or a very offensively deep squad (Frolunda). Or both in which case your team is extremely good (Vaxjo or Rogle). There being no gap between SHL and the rest is also not true at all, SHL has by far the best parity in Europe (bottom teams still have legitimate star players, something Liiga, Extraliga or even KHL lacks) and for the most part, has by far the best balance throughout the lineup (which is Achiles' heel of NLA teams).

This Norwegian side would do perfectly fine in DEL, Extraliga or Liiga (which has pretty putrid depth at this point), would struggle badly in the NLA and would be a true relegation contender in SHL. By SHL standards, the goaltending is adequate, defense is awful (which has been Norway's trouble for a long time, Holos has been carrying this defensive squad on his back for years) and the forwards might be fine if team was allowed to grab a top line in the expansion draft And that's no offense at all, just look with what kind of roster HV71 got relegated.

 

[BigBadBoar]

Just like Namejs said, offense in the SHL is created by either having legitimate star players (Orebro or Leksands being best examples this year) or a very offensively deep squad (Frolunda). Or both in which case your team is extremely good (Vaxjo or Rogle). There being no gap between SHL and the rest is also not true at all, SHL has by far the best parity in Europe (bottom teams still have legitimate star players, something Liiga, Extraliga or even KHL lacks) and for the most part, has by far the best balance throughout the lineup (which is Achiles' heel of NLA teams).

This Norwegian side would do perfectly fine in DEL, Extraliga or Liiga (which has pretty putrid depth at this point), would struggle badly in the NLA and would be a true relegation contender in SHL. By SHL standards, the goaltending is adequate, defense is awful (which has been Norway's trouble for a long time, Holos has been carrying this defensive squad on his back for years) and the forwards might be fine if team was allowed to grab a top line in the expansion draft And that's no offense at all, just look with what kind of roster HV71 got relegated.

I don't know, man. I am assuming according to how the players are doing when playing each other on the international level. From this perspective, I don't see any substantial difference between the elite guys from SHL, Liiga, Extraliga. Maybe SHL teams may have a bit greater depth of rosters, but I am not sure at all even with that. In my view, the "cult" of SHL being significantly better than other European leagues is simply not true, it is more of a myth created by the fact that there are particularly many talented young players in the SHL who get drafted into the NHL and so on. But overall, the "SHL cult" is really a myth to me. Of course this is only my opinion and it is virtually impossible to determite the fact since there in no league or tournament which would really make the teams from different European leagues face each other with a full focus. Champions' League still looks like a bit of an exhibition games league to me, at least according to the attitude of most of the teams towards it.

 

[Garl]

I don't know, man. I am assuming according to how the players are doing when playing each other on the international level. From this perspective, I don't see any substantial difference between the elite guys from SHL, Liiga, Extraliga. Maybe SHL teams may have a bit greater depth of rosters, but I am not sure at all even with that. In my view, the "cult" of SHL being significantly better than other European leagues is simply not true, it is more of a myth created by the fact that there are particularly many talented young players in the SHL who get drafted into the NHL and so on. But overall, the "SHL cult" is really a myth to me. Of course this is only my opinion and it is virtually impossible to determite the fact since there in no league or tournament which would really make the teams from different European leagues face each other with a full focus. Champions' League still looks like a bit of an exhibition games league to me, at least according to the attitude of most of the teams towards it.

It's totally not a myth. SHL leftovers go to Liiga and even extraliga and build nice careers, top players from Extraliga and Liiga quite often flop in SHL. Champions League is dominated by SHL. Interesting that you value EHT games which are a glorified extibition between national teams where you are getting some players from one league, some from another, but Champions League is not valued by you))

 

[SoundAndFury]

I don't know, man. I am assuming according to how the players are doing when playing each other on the international level. From this perspective, I don't see any substantial difference between the elite guys from SHL, Liiga, Extraliga.

How many of the best SHL players move to any of those leagues and how many of the best players from those leagues move to the SHL? Easy answer. When Lasch went to Pelicans last year everyone gasped what's happening. Needless to say, he dominated the Liiga, got out of there midway through the season, and is back to Frolunda for the next year.

Edit: Garl beat me to it.

 

[Namejs]

I don't know, man. I am assuming according to how the players are doing when playing each other on the international level. From this perspective, I don't see any substantial difference between the elite guys from SHL, Liiga, Extraliga. Maybe SHL teams may have a bit greater depth of rosters, but I am not sure at all even with that. In my view, the "cult" of SHL being significantly better than other European leagues is simply not true, it is more of a myth created by the fact that there are particularly many talented young players in the SHL who get drafted into the NHL and so on. But overall, the "SHL cult" is really a myth to me. Of course this is only my opinion and it is virtually impossible to determite the fact since there in no league or tournament which would really make the teams from different European leagues face each other with a full focus. Champions' League still looks like a bit of an exhibition games league to me, at least according to the attitude of most of the teams towards it.

There are dozens and dozens of players who have played in SHL and the other leagues at some point in their careers. Compare their production rates in each of the different leagues.

SHL is markedly better. There is no cult. It's just a better league, 3rd best in the hockey world.

And there are very real, quantifiable ways to prove it.

 

[A Bundy]

Not sure how this analysis flies, but this being the Norwegain roster thread I will try get us back on track
I agree that the two top lines for Norway might be consituted of 0.5 - 0,75 ppg players at this (WC) level, and with that logic I espect a goal from the first and second line a game on average, and the tow bottom lines combining for another one. Som more goals against Germany and southwards, less against the top three. The top nations will likely have 45 shots on goal, and with a 90 SVS % that means on every ordinary day we will lose by a couple of goals againts the top nations unless the defense excells and the goalie have that one hot 95 % day, while the offense is clicking simultaniously. Of the three goalies I actually would run with Holm or maybe Arntzen against the top teams, and allthough he has not been playing much recently my gut tells me the trow are more likely to have that one shut-down day. I suspect they go with Haukeland though, and although he had a really bad last WC he is fairly solid and dependable and also had a good if not too busy day against Denmark. I see our chances against Germany as quite good if things really click, but they have some really good goalies as well. Norway has tended to come out of the WC gate quite strong under Throresen to my recollection, before running out of steam as the tourney progresses. My bet is an ugly and lucky QF spot.

 

[BigBadBoar]

It's totally not a myth. SHL leftovers go to Liiga and even extraliga and build nice careers, top players from Extraliga and Liiga quite often flop in SHL. Champions League is dominated by SHL. Interesting that you value EHT games which are a glorified extibition between national teams where you are getting some players from one league, some from another, but Champions League is not valued by you))

As I said - the main difference for me is the SHL is "younger" in average, there are numerous young prospects who subsequently make a good career in the NHL, which helps to feed what I call a myth. But really, we would need to see the teams compete each other for real like in soccer Champions League or League Europe, until that, we can but argue unless the judgement day comes.

 

[SoundAndFury]

As I said - the main difference for me is the SHL is "younger" in average

I would like to see some numbers here.

 

[A Bundy]

As I am the only one sticing to topic I exalt myself to being judge on these matters: True that the SHL has more drafter players under 21 (53 vs 41), but Liiga age is actually younger. Salaries are somewhat higher in SHL as well, only second to the top NL players and KHL I think - outside NHL - but again, the differences in age and drafted prospects are not big between the two. Everybody has valid points, so we can move on to look at Norway's gold medal chances. I think we can quickly reach a consencus there?

 

[Eye of Ra]

yeah i cant even see them reach qf.

thought if they had the team they had 10 years ago in this tournament , i would say not reaching qf would be a upset.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I find myself asking who is going to score goals here?

The only guys with any tradition of scoring at even the SHL level are oldie brothers Olimb, and both of them are just "fine" DEL players at this stage of their careers. No-one else on the team is scoring in the KHL or SHL, much less in North America.

Among the nations generally considered to be the lower five in this group, Norway does have some decent goaltending and a defensive group that is very capable of playing a chippy game, should international rules not penalize/put an end to that advantage real quick.

Indeed, the major hockey nations are not bringing their general onslaught of NHLers, but both Latvia (several established KHL and SHL scorers, host nation) and Germany (OS silver, several final 4 appearances at the WC in the last decade+) are looking like the most direct opponents for a 4th place finish in the group and generally should have the upper hand.

Norway simply has to beat the teams it can beat and then win the big head-to-head match-ups. The one against Germany on Saturday could prove crucial to any playoff hopes.

 

[A Bundy]

My bookie has 2,78 on Norway vs 1.41 Germany - including OT. That is quite similar to how I see it myself, and implies there is a real opportunity for Norway to beat the presumable 1st contender for the 4th slot in the QFs. If everything clicks for Norway and Germany has an off day it could easily happen - about 36 % likely, but most likely not. Won't bet in it though. Might bet on the Germans to jinx them, as my betting record is poor these days.

 

[A Bundy]

Elite Prospects - WC Stats 2018-2019 Martinsen and Reichenberg are out. Replaced by Ken Andre Olimb and Emilio Pettersen, while Trettenes is a better player now. M Olimb was not very productive either. That team was actually quite poor. I like this team much better.