Ed Ned and Leddy
Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
I definitely sympathize with your interest to speed up the rebuild, but even with a top 3 protection our '22 1st is too valuable a piece to trade.
Prospect Info: 2021 NHL Draft Prospects
- Thread starter Barry Amsterdam
- Start date
I definitely sympathize with your interest to speed up the rebuild, but even with a top 3 protection our '22 1st is too valuable a piece to trade.
Barry Amsterdam
Nättias Dänielstrom
- Apr 2, 2013
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haven't been impressed with Edvinsson from what Ive seen.
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
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I keep seeing this on HFboards only while everyone who actually scouts has him ranked high. Huge, great skater, great defensively, physical, really good first pass, been solid offensively with experience against pros and internationally.
Hes the prospect that reminds me the most of Seider in this class, I would think wings fans would appreciate what someone like that can do for a team
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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Dude, he and Seider are nothing alike.
In Seider's draft he was criminally underscouted because of the German factor. Seider displayed utter dominance at junior levels as well as at the WJC u20 D1A. AND he played for Germany in the world championships. The only other 2 draft eligibles to play in the 2019 WC? Kappo Kakko and Jack Hughes.
Edvinsson has not turned out a dominating performance all season. He has great physical tools but the common theme no matter the scouting service has been consistency. If you want a modern draft comparable then look at Broberg; great physical tools and athleticism, but inconsistent and doesn't have a high hockey IQ and doesn't have the best decision making. Seider was spoken of highly for his decision making and consistency.
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
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I wouldnt say theyre nothing alike lol. Big, minute munching types with a lot of similar aspects to their game. I've watched Edvinsson play dominant games personally, not just going off the HFboards hivemind talk about him, not sure how many on this board can say the same (especially including Sweden). Its not a perfect comparison but I would say hes the most similar dman to Seider in this draft and would provide a lot of the same stuff that Seider does, so its weird seeing wings fans shit on him despite the actual scouts being so high on him. I agree Seiders IQ is better, but predraft you wouldnt be talking Seider up like this either. Seider might've been a little underscouted by internet scouts and the hfboards "scouts" but thats different than actual NHL scouts anyways. Theyre both great skaters, huge, physical with some offensive upside but really good defense. Is there differences between them? Obviously, but they provide a lot of the same stuff
Edvinsson is less athletic than Broberg but has a better IQ/defensive play to me as well. I dont know why we're acting like being compared to Broberg is bad either, at the ripe old age of 19 are we writing him off as a player?
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,235
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I mean, the same folks who had Seider top 10 have Edvinsson at 2 (hockeyprospect.com)
I know he’s a polarizing player, but there are folks who view him a lot higher than many on this board do.
TCNorthstars
Registered User
Trade away a chance for a real 1c with great scoring ability for a couple of 20 something picks that are statistically likely to be 3rd liners? HELL NO!
Ed Ned and Leddy
Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
Like you mentioned earlier, the fact that Craig compared him to Hayden Fleury then ranked him #3 on his board was puzzling to me. A lot of the discourse around him is not super encouraging, and it's hard to point to many performances where he's really jumped off the screen, but he's pretty consistently ranked top 5.
I'm really just not sure what to make of Edvinsson. I've only been able to watch him play a few games for Frolunda, where he understandably played a pretty limited role. In tournaments I think he's been alright, not usually a standout good or bad. I've got to believe he's looking more dominant at the U20 level, but I haven't seen those games.
Ultimately if we do draft him I'll defer to our staff and the scouting consensus on it, but at the same time it's tough for me to get fired up about a guy who has never really jumped off the page for me.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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The only thing I can hope for at this point is that someone else makes the decision for us and takes him off the board between 1 and 5.
...Or we win the lottery and draft Power, Clarke or Beniers.
Ed Ned and Leddy
Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
Fingers crossed. Although I've already mentally prepared myself for the possibility that we win the lottery and take Edvinsson #1OA.
If so I'll hold hope for another Seider outcome, but I'm scared that we might spend two very high draft picks on blueliners without an excellent powerplay QB to show for it.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
- 17,157
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Seider will be an excellent PP QB, of that I'm sure. The dude is just such an amazing passer and if you watched his work in GR last year and Rogle this year it was almost futile for the other team to try and clear the zone on his side of the ice. He'd just swat clearing attempts down from mid air and hold the puck at the line.
Back on topic: I get the feeling that if we win the lottery Detroit makes the easy choice and goes with Power or Beniers. If we win #2 overall we might go with Beniers if Power is gone. That top 9 of the draft all look to be comparable in talent level so I don't think it will be a reach if we pick for positional need anywhere in that range.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,235
- 14,742
Ha, no way we get #1. I’d keel over.
MBH
Players Play
I'm still not sold on Edvinsson.
But if we pick a 6'4, fast LD... I'll take it over a 5'10 winger.
simonedvinsson
Registered User
- May 26, 2020
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I’ve seen some great games out of Edvinsson, particular in the J20 league. Yes, he has some blunders in the offensive zone, but he almost always gets back and breaks things up before anything too crazy happens. His defensive skill set is top in the class for me, and he skates very well. If we miss out on the other 6’5”+ defenseman, Edvinsson is not a bad consolation prize. That’s assuming we win the lottery though, which we won’t. I can only hope Hughes falls to us at eight.
I'd rank the defensemen as follows (1st round only):
I'd rank the defensemen as follows (1st round only):
- Simon Edvinsson: shutdown, minute-munching defenseman. His offensive game needs work, but he has a good enough foundation that I'm not worried about that aspect of his game either way. Biggest wart: offensive game.
- Luke Hughes: offensively gifted defenseman. His defensive game needs some polishing, but with his hockey sense, frame and skating, I think he'll improve a lot. Biggest wart: defensive game.
- Owen Power: great all-around defenseman. His offense and hockey sense aren't on Hughes' level but better than Edvinsson's. His defensive game isn't on Edvinsson's level, but it's better than Hughes'. I can understand the argument for taking him first because his game is all-around more even than the other two.
- Aleksi Heimosalmi: small, two-way defenseman. He doesn't make many mistakes, and he doesn't repeat the ones he does make. Given the league he played in this year, I can't confidently rank him any higher, but I will openly admit he's my favorite defenseman in this draft. I think he's the defender with the most wow and flutter, and his hockey sense is incredible. Biggest wart: quality of competition, though he assuaged some anxiety at the U18s.
- Brandt Clarke: another defenseman with incredible hockey sense. I worry about his all-around game relative to the guys ahead of him on my list. I realize it's a bad look having him this low, but it really is very close for me between these five.
- Carson Lambos: Lambos is one of those players who does everything well but nothing exceptionally. He's a good skater. He's got good puckhandling. Good passing. Good shot. I just haven't seen anything elite or that I can project as a top pairing guy. At this point, his ceiling is probably that of a second pairing defenseman.
- Stanislav Svozil: he's established himself as more of a two-way player, capable of burning past defensemen when he has an opening. His defensive positioning and decision-making are still his bread and butter, but he has the tools to be effective at both ends. The biggest concern about him is his consistency.
- Daniil Chayka: Chayka is a big, smooth-skating defenseman who projects more as a defensive defenseman. He's got a big shot, but he doesn't use it too much and is more of a pass-first defenseman who is reliable in his own end.
- Corson Ceulemans: a big kid, who skates well, is physically aggressive, and he has a big shot from the point, which has lead to a lot of production on the powerplay. The team that takes Ceulemans is taking a bit of a gamble though. The mobile, two-way defenseman has arguably been the most productive quarterback in the AJHL since Cale Makar, but it is a weaker league, and there are a lot of questions about how his offense will translate at the next level. With his shot and playmaking skills, I think his offense should translate OK enough. He has some work to do on his defensive game, but I could see Ceulemans developing into a top-four defenseman who can quarterback one of your powerplay units.
- Scott Morrow: all-situations defenseman with good size and skating whose bread and butter is his playmaking ability. He is a bit raw, having only played prep school hockey, so he'll need time to adjust to better competition, but he looks like he could develop into a solid top-four defender who you can use on your powerplay.
edit: added defensemen rankings.
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Killerjas
Registered User
Curious if any team picks triple overager Janis Jerome Moser. Yes, he will turn 21 in June, but he is doing really well in Switzerland. On paper he has the size and skill to be a 3rd line D. I have him somewhere between the 5th and 7th round. Not sure if there is more upside then a 3rd line all-round defender, but he has a good floor already.
Janis Jérôme Moser at eliteprospects.com
Janis Jérôme Moser at eliteprospects.com
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
I probably wouldn't take him in the top 5, but I could certainly get behind Edvinsson in the 6-9 range. I feel much better about him after the U18s. Frankly, if Button hadn't said anything about his offense, no one here would be questioning it. Note that the people who mention his offensive upside don't really have anything to say about his game except for "I question his offense" or "I have concerns about his offense."
He looks very comfortable to me moving in all directions with the puck in all three zones and clearly has the feet to beat the forecheck against his peers. As I have said before, I don't think he is a great passer of the puck, but he isn't some stone-handed knuckle dragger either. His shot and his ability to get the puck through to the net can be improved.
I will never understand the Broberg comparisons. They are nothing alike apart from their size and mobility.
He looks very comfortable to me moving in all directions with the puck in all three zones and clearly has the feet to beat the forecheck against his peers. As I have said before, I don't think he is a great passer of the puck, but he isn't some stone-handed knuckle dragger either. His shot and his ability to get the puck through to the net can be improved.
I will never understand the Broberg comparisons. They are nothing alike apart from their size and mobility.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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I'm gonna go full MBH on this one. Sanderson is a better prospect than Edvinsson now, and was a better prospect at the 2020 draft than Edvinsson is at the 2021 draft.
I like Edvinsson's game defensively but Sanderson's is better in all areas. I think Edvinsson is pretty mobile and agile for a big guy. Sanderson is an elite skater. He's also fairy physical. I can't remember a play from Edvinsson where I thought he erased a player from the play, but Sanderson combined his speed and physicality to shut down Team Canada at the U20's.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
I agree that Sanderson is more physical. And yeah he's certainly a better prospect after the year of development but on draft day, I'd take Edvinson... I know that I've always been particularly low on Sanderson but he never impressed when I've watched him. I wouldn't rate his skating better than Edvinson this time last year. I would say Edvinson is a better puck rusher than Sanderson was, maybe not as good a passer, but a better shooter. Overall, give me Edvinson.
Ed Ned and Leddy
Brokering the Bally Sports + Corncob TV Merger
I don't think I disagree with any of this, except I was concerned about his offense prior to Button's podcast. To me, that's a pretty big concern if we're taking a defenseman top 10. If he ends up a rangey, mobile 2nd pairing guy that's not the end of the world, but I feel like you can find similar players in the deeper rounds if you're scouting well. That's why I scrutinize the tools and production of the blueliners projected in our draft range.
Like you mention, the passing in both the neutral zone and controlled offensive zone possessions has been troubling in my viewings. That to me is the biggest distinction from a guy like Seider, who I've seen him compared to here. Again, it's not like he's totally incompetent in that area, but I've seen him make puzzling decisions with the puck enough to raise red flags there. I agree with you that his shot and ability to get the puck through traffic can be improved. So outside of his skating and defense, I'm not sure I see the tools or toolbox of a guy who can have an impact the way we hope Seider will.
Again, I can't sit here and say I've seen the kid play a ton of hockey or anything, and if he's our pick I'll get behind him. But he is on aggregate usually ranked above guys like Brandt Clarke and Luke Hughes, which is puzzling to me. If we took him over one of those players, or over Power, I would have some concerns. But like you say, in the 6-9 range, that's maybe a different story. If we're pick #7 and the draft goes something like Power, Beniers, Clarke, Guenther, Hughes, Eklund, then it's an easier pick to endorse (although I would still take Johnson there).
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newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
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How many games of his have you actually watched him play? Just at the u18 alone there were plenty examples of him playing physically and "erasing" players from the play. Pretty unfair to use Sandersons u20 this year (where he wasnt that great a lot of the tourney) as the reason hes always been a better prospect than Edvinsson. At draft time theyre very comparable guys
I have Edvinsson in my top 10 just because of his potential but to me, he is really frustrating in the few clips I have seen of him becasue he isn't using the God given asset of size to his advantage. He uses the reach he has very well but he just doesn't seem all the physical when he could use that size as an asset. I mean, it almost seems, again from the clips I have seen, that he almost shy's away from using his body. I could be VERY wrong because my views are limited but people who have seen him, is that a correct assessment? He doesn't have to be a bone crusher like Seider but geez, use that frame to your advantage.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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The majority of his SHL Frolunda games, 2 or 3 of his Vasteras games, and his replays at the u18's. The only stuff I saw of his in the J20 nationel were in highlights.
I started keeping an eye out for him when Bob McKenzie started talking him up at the beginning of the season because he was talked about as a climber. Edvinsson leaves me feeling just...whelmed.
That can also be a function of reach, especially in transition. If you can separate a man from the puck without engaging them physically, why would you: (a) waste the energy to tie up with them physically, (b) take yourself out of the continuation of the play by tying up physically with a man no longer in the play. This is modern transition defense 101 really.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
I don't watch Swedish Junior leagues really at all as I find streams hard to come by, but I did watch Edvinsson a few times with the big club when checking out our other prospects. I tried to pay some attention to the big name prospects this year whenever I was watching, Seider, Raymond, Niederbach or Berggren. Because most of my viewings are at that level, Edvinsson didn't produce much, didn't get a ton of minutes and was playing against men in a very defensively responsible system so that may color my views on him...
From what I've seen, your take is definitely somewhat accurate, but it's not something I'm worried about. He does not go into situations looking to play the body. More so he uses his body to angle guys into the corners or boards and defuse the play that way, or steal it using his stick and reach. I don't think he's afraid of physical contact as he will use his size sometimes and does great at holding his own if someone else engages him. It's just not his focus the way it is for a guy like Seider. You know how Hedman plays defense? Edvinsson is sort of like that. He's large and skates well, letting him control a ton of ice, but he's not throwing people around or laying people out regularly. It might give me some pause taking him if we didn't already have Seider- if Edvinsson ended up as our biggest D he'd be looked at to handle the physicality duties and it would be frustrating when he'd angle someone out of the play instead of engaging them. As is we're projecting to have a very physical defenseman on our first line so the idea of also having Edvinsson who is similarly talented at shutting plays down and can control half the ice at any given time... is quite tantalizing.
If I saw more creativity and offensive IQ from him, I'd be pumping him as my guy. Like I said at the top, perhaps playing in the SHL limited how much he could look to generate chances, but that's an excuse not an endorsement. As is, I think the Wings need to fill two big holes on defense. I want a creative, smart offensive PP QB and another minute-munching two-way defenseman that can tilt the ice. Left handed is preferable, but I'm not taking a less talented guy because of the way he shoots. I like Hughes or Power more than Edvinsson for their offensive potential and think both can fill both things our defense lacks. I go back and forth on Edvinsson vs Clarke. Clarke is definitely the more skilled creative player and can be that PP guy for us. The size and speed of Edvinsson are going to make him so much more effective defensively though and he can be the two-way LHD that eats up ice and minutes.
If we were to take Edvinsson, I'd say that- barring him developing poorly- we can probably stop drafting D with high picks. It would give us two good potential defensive formations:
Edvinsson-Seider (Edvinsson forms a shut down top pair with Seider that keeps the puck 200 ft away from our goalie at all times)
AJ/Braveheart/Tuo/other - Hronek
or
AJ/Braveheart/Tuo/other -Seider
Edvinsson-Hronek (Edvinsson lets Hronek take a bit more risk and pinch low to get shots or distribute. Hronek as a great chance generating passer and Edvinsson as a large man that can skate cover each other's weaknesses perfectly)
