2021 Memorial Cup

Discussion in 'OHL' started by Junior Fan, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. battfan888

    battfan888 Podcaster

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    My thought has always been you should have to wait a minimum of 20 years before hosting again. Halifax is hosting 19 years apart I dont think that's too bad.
    But a 20 year gap would insure 6 different hosts from a league in that time span. Perhaps youd get the same 7 teams in a league hosting but it would eliminate situations like London hosting twice in a decade. Quebec City hosting 3 times in 24 years, twice in 12.

    I know in the Q it's a bit harder with so many barns that even at a grass roots level arent capable of hosting. Sorry but you cant have it in Val d'or or Baie Comeau. It's just not feasible, no offense to those fine towns.

    As for the OHL and who should realistically host in 2021. To be anybody who hosted after Ottawa in 1999 should be out as per my 20 year rule above. Ottawa itself would be good if they could just get a couple things in their rink back up to code like the press boxes and suites. The area around the rink now is absolutely fantastic and would be perfect for hosting. Though not sure if the 67s team itself can be capable of hosting by then with the cycle. Who knows.

    To me (and this is all pending strength of team of course) my top picks would be places like Oshawa, Kingston, Erie and Niagara.

    Oshawa was pretty much slated to host in 2008 before Kitchener gave the money guarantee which I think was still a somewhat new thing at the time. They lost out again to Regina last year and with the whole GM thing happening it's a community that could use a boost.

    Kingston, again team strength is always questionable but the rink is fabulous (though I'm told they will need some work to add more dressing rooms) and Kingston itself is a beautiful town and being the unofficial birthplace of hockey has a lot of great tie ins. If you can get good weather that week too theres lots of great stuff to do in the area for relaxing and leisure.

    Niagara, fantastic new rink and a great fanbase with a team that's usually in the hunt. Again weve heard that the money might not work but if Niagara ever hosted they would do a great job I believe. The atmosphere would be off the charts especially for IceDogs games.

    Erie, they went from a rink that had to be down around that 14-18 ranking in the league to easily a top 5. Erie is not nearly as far of a trek as most people think and in May would have no weather issues. As mentioned the city itself has plenty of hotels and things to do in the area.
    Their one knock is they are an American team.
    Now that's not a knock from me but obviously there seems to be some logistical issue with US teams hosting at the moment. I had three chance to interview WHL commissioner Ron Robison in Regina and asked him with so many US teams out there if they were going to get a shot anytime soon and while he didnt say flat out no the wording behind his answer led you to believe it wasnt happening anytime soon. Thankfully some of the teams out there got a chance to host in the 80s and 90s but they are fully capable now just as I feel Erie is the States best bet at the moment for the OHL.

    Sault Ste Marie, their rink is a tad bit on the smaller side from the rinks listed above so that might hurt them. But no doubt it would sell out. Greyhounds have great management in place and while they havent gotten over the title hump yet they are no doubt a team capable of hosting.

    They wont be ready for 2021 but hopefully by 2024 you can add Sudbury and Peterborough back in the mix. I think Sudbury would be a great host as it's a big town and can give the Wolves a chance to finally be in the spotlight with a brand new rink. Peterborough a town roughly the size of the Soo so not as big as some of the other places but I can imagine they would be capable.
    Hamilton could be good but it's become obvious it's not gonna happen at Copps so they need to build a new rink. I'm sure they can build something like Bud Gardens and then be in the mix constantly to host.

    Maybe give those teams a shot at it before you go back to London, Windsor, Kitchener, Mississauga.
     
  2. Whalers97

    Whalers97 Registered User

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    Why not do away with the current format and go to a 6 or 7 team playoff, with each junior league sending two teams to a neutral site with the WHL sending an additional team based on their 22 team league. Switch cities, Winnipeg, Wisconsin/Minnesota area, Las Vegas every three years. As it stands now, the host team technically doesn't have to win a game all year and still qualifies. To me, its more of an exhibition than a playoff.
     
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  3. EvenSteven

    EvenSteven Registered User

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    There was talk in the last year or so of a March madness type tournament for the Memorial cup. Of course, done on a much smaller scale.

    Be in favour of trying that sort of tournament. It would have to be for three years in order to let each leg host such an event. Then after that, see how it goes and if it is actually something that we would like to do on a more permanent basis.
     
  4. AttackSound

    AttackSound Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth

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    The issue with a playoff format isn't that the idea in theory would or wouldn't work. More that where the flaw is in that type of format is that the standings would effect the outcome in a bigger way then it's worth.

    Interesting that you suggest the WHL an additional team to the tournament, if it was that easy wouldn't it just make sense to allow all 3 leagues to sent conference winners instead?

    A better option would be this which wouldn't disrupt much, once every 3 seasons your league hosts like it's always been but instead of having league champions, have conference champions be awarded to move on to the memorial cup across all three league's be eligible to host.

    Then like the NHL draft out of the top 4 clubs every year hold a draft lottery alternatating between conferences across all three leagues. No bidding process a year ahead for teams.

    This would mean that no team could bid multiple times for the tournament based off their facilities, or standings effect the host city. This would also mean that the outcome of the host city would be awarded in an unbiased manner meaning that if your team was to place in the top 4 in the league that you'd have a 25% chance of hosting the tournament.

    This would also mean that all 3 CHL leagues would have tighter standings races as there would be no guarantees that your city would host. As most of you are probably thinking about the obvious question by now what to do if there's a standings tie?

    And the answer is simple the league's would use the same format to determine regular season standings.

    Wins-Losses-OT-SL as a main factor in determining who's in.

    Which would also bring up the secondary question what happens if there's a tie in the records then you would use the regular season series between the two or more clubs and season series records to finalize hosts as a tie-breaker format, which leads down to goal differential GF vs. GA if the the records are split 50/50.

    This format is already used in determining regular season standings in the OHL as is effective as on a consistent basis in the draft process in all three league's without effecting the CHL's ability to get the best product from a fans perspective.

    There will probably never be a neutral site tournament unless for some unexpected reasoning that the host city has facility issues that couldn't be solved prior to the first game of the tournament, and not to also count that at the current moment that each city who bids on the tournament has to accommodate the media, teams, sponsors etc. At least not in the current state of the CHL format would we ever see a neutral site tournament any other way.
     
  5. zaluty

    zaluty Registered User

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    When did Kingston get Brandt Clarke? Maybe you meant Shane Wright but he is a forward.
     
  6. PhlyerPhanatic31

    PhlyerPhanatic31 Registered User

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    I hope London gets it again...I like watching people's heads explode
     
  7. RangerNation

    RangerNation Registered User

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    As much as I would like to see Kitchener host again, Steve B always brings up "fairness to the league", to allow other teams to bid and get a chance. Annoying but a fair stance.

    So naturally London will host it next.
     
  8. EvenSteven

    EvenSteven Registered User

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    Pretty much slated to host? By who?
    Many fans around the OHL thought they'd win the bid because they had JT. Kitchener didn't have a player with comparable star recognition.

    Otherwise, Kitchener had the upper hand based on venue (bigger building meaning higher attendance), venue location (many didn't like where Oshawa located their new building), arguably strength of team- especially behind the bench and in the front office.

    But what blew the doors off the proceedings was the bid. Sure, the Rangers may have promised more guaranteed money, but from what I understand, the Ranger bid presentation blew the Oshawa bid out of the water. A professionally constructed bid with many more bells and whistles. The introduction of multiple new innovative ideas never done before that have been the norm today. (Fund raising remembrance sweater for one was huge). Etc etc.

    Oshawa pretty much just showed up and said "We got JT and they don't".
    Then have after the announcement, all the General brass said was, "hey we have JT. How could they not have awarded the Memorial Cup to the team with JT".

    They obviously didn't take the bid process seriously.
     
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  9. BarberPole9

    BarberPole9 Registered User

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    Any new buzz on this. I've heard Ottawa and Oshawa get mentioned as possibilities from the East. Maybe Kitchener and Saginaw from the West? What does everybody think?
     
  10. MatthewsMoustache

    MatthewsMoustache Registered User

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    Kitchener will still be a year away from being anything meaningful at that point. London's defence core is intriguing but they will be losing Foudy and Regula after this season. Saginaw and Ottawa will be losing some big pieces but also have decent young cores.

    My guess is Oshawa
     
  11. NOA

    NOA Registered User

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    It’s probably coming down to Ottawa and Oshawa. Nobody else likely will bid

    Curious though.. Why does Saginaw continue to get more love than Erie for a Memorial Cup host? Erie has a bigger, newer arena and a city with more attractions. Plus more of a some level of winning hockey and tradition.

    Reality is: the league don’t support the US hosting right now. So neither would win a bid. But who would have a better chance is the question?
     
  12. ohloutsider

    ohloutsider Registered User

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    Not sure the league does not support US teams. The Memorial Cup has been hosted by US teams so never say never. What I see is 3 US teams in the OHL who have not bid to host the Memorial Cup in a long time if ever ( not sure if Erie has bid before). So not sure how it can be claimed they are not being given the opportunity when they have not even bid to host? I for 1 would like to see Erie throw their hat in the ring for next year. I would be all in to go there for some games.
     
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  13. NOA

    NOA Registered User

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    Erie has been very close to bidding in the past and considered it. I don’t know if they actually put a bid in but if I recall, they did. This is going back to the early/mid 2000s.

    My hunch though - Erie wouldn’t win a bid. Yet their facilities and surrounding attractions would be perfect for the tournament. Plus I think their current roster is at this moment way better set up than Oshawa. That said, I don’t think Erie is going to waste their time/money on putting in for a bid when they would face an uphill battle. Fact being that they would face lower odds and more of a battle for no other reason than them being a city located in the US

    I’m not saying the league will never have an American team host ... but the OHL has never had it happen and overall, it hasn’t happened since the 1990s..
     
  14. dirty12

    dirty12 Registered User

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    Though a good case can be made that it’s time a US OHL franchise hosts, I believe it’s the Eastern conference’s turn; so, every chance will be given to Oshawa, Ottawa, Kingston imo.
    One of the criteria is having a team that looks like it has all the pieces in place at the time of the bid that could have a real chance to win the tournament.
    That does not appear to be Erie, sorry. Flint is loaded and operated by the OHL. Does Flint have the seating, boxes, hotels...? Saginaw? Saginaw does have a lot of the 2001-03 and potential OA players in place.
     
  15. NOA

    NOA Registered User

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    Erie has pretty much every single relevant player returning and are in a strong position to already sign their top 2 prospects by next offseason. Both of which could be top 2/3 round NHL picks. I think their roster is plenty good enough to win, sorry.

    But again, the point is mute - they won’t even attempt a bid. I just think out of all the US teams in the OHL they have the only sense of tradition, have previously won, and have the facilities and city to support it. Their roster would also be strong.
     
  16. dirty12

    dirty12 Registered User

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    Only disagree on roster part. I just don’t see the picks, prospects, players in place to build a better 2020-21 team than any of London, Flint, Saginaw, Ottawa, Oshawa, Barrie should they choose to contend that season. Even Kingston has a potentially stronger bid than Erie imo. Kingston has the arena, sites, history, Wright, and 9-2001 born players including a goalie and seven others selected in the first three rounds.
     
  17. NOA

    NOA Registered User

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    I agree on the picks but I guess we just totally disagree on the prospects. Erie also has a top goalie prospect that nobody is talking about, Drysdale, and others.

    Like I said though, the point isn’t to throw them in a ring against Canadian teams. I was strictly speaking for American teams. Which I think they will be in great shape when compared to them. That said, I also see them winning more games this year and taking a good leap because I think they are being overlooked right now. If you don’t see it even this year, that’s a totally different discussion. We will agree to disagree
     
  18. dirty12

    dirty12 Registered User

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    Oh, I definitely see Erie as a competitive team. But they are middlings; whereas the other US teams, Saginaw and Flint are at the top and near the top of their cycle. Flint has not yet made a spot to play their ‘03-2nd pick every game. They have 3-3rds, 4th, 5ths that might not get a sniff in Flint next season. Flint is absolutely loaded with players, prospects, and picks; Erie is not.
     
  19. NOA

    NOA Registered User

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    I agree both should/likely will be better than Erie this year. However, that’s also with Saginaw being a likely top 2 team in the conference, nobody saying Erie will be that. The host is next year though

    In terms of prospects - Khustnutdinov and Saganiuk would both like great in an Erie uniform. Erie has the plenty of prospects. Signed and unsigned

    Flint would be the bigger worry. They have plenty of picks and a really young team. Saginaw does as well but if they go all in this year (they should and probably will) they aren’t going to be that same team next year
     
  20. dirty12

    dirty12 Registered User

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    Agree with you there. If Wilde returns, OA/OA import goes their way, Saginaw will be in a great position to trade/spend big at the deadline.
     
  21. ohloutsider

    ohloutsider Registered User

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    But saying US teams have an uphill battle is just an assumption they do. I have seen no evidence they do. Just fans saying they don't have a chance because they are an US based team. There has never been ( to my knowledge) a time where a US team was denied hosting because they are a US team. So why use this as a narrative?
     
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  22. NOA

    NOA Registered User

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    They aren’t denied from hosting or trying to bid. That said, I don’t know why Erie didn’t win a bid before even though I know they had strong interest before

    But between the sponsors of Canada and the media coverage in Canada.. it’s a Canadian tournament. It would have to be a perfect situation to host outside of it. I’m not saying they would never allow a US to do it. But it is easier for the league to simply avoid the US and go with the “easier” choice when other top options present themselves. They would never come out and say “we don’t like your US location..” but don’t you think other teams feel that it would be a harder draw for them because of that?

    The tournament is about money, sponsors, and coverage. That, now more than even the 90s, is the most important thing in the age of social media and sports. There has to be hesitation with the league to have a foreign city host. “What if some sponsors are unhappy/pull back?” “What if the US fans aren’t as connected to the tradition/tourney?”

    Those are some real and fair questions that the league would have.

    If it were my team and I those were concerns, I would be worried that the league would have that sway them, even if it were just a minor thing.
     
  23. attackfan71

    attackfan71 Registered User

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    Not sure how. But I would love to see a format where even small market teams like Owen sound get a chance to host. Competitive team every year. Great ownership. Stable franchise. Fans that are second to none. A community that would jump at the chance and do anything to make everyone’s stay memorable. Only issue is small arena meaning chl doesn’t cash in big time. Well what’s wrong with rewarding small centres that are solid fixtures in the league every so often. Forget about the cash cow reward the franchise and it’s fans
     
  24. Generalsupdates

    Generalsupdates Registered User

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    It's almost pointless to look at 2021 Mem Cup potential teams roster construction right now. You need about 2 all-star level players if you have a lot of picks, which anyone who's playing on bidding, will have.

    Picks are far more valuable than prospects who "might be good in a year or 2" when talking about a Mem Cup host.

    You get the Mem Cup= you're spending all your picks to go all in. That team is going to become elite if they have picks
     
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  25. ohloutsider

    ohloutsider Registered User

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    Canadian media follows the WJT around the world to cover it including a recent stop in Buffalo. The Memorial Cup will be covered no matter where it is played. Sportsnet has a long term commitment to cover it.
    Anyway it looks like best case is we agree to disagree. And again, if it lands in Erie, I will be in line to buy tickets.
     

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