WJC: 2021 Canada Roster Talk

[jj cale]

I am glad Hockey Canada is pursuing Lambert. Hoping he does have the desire to play for Canada. Many players over the years have changed their
mind about what country to play for. Logan Brown is a perfect example. He wanted to play for Canada, but got cut from the Ivan Hlinka team, and
switched back to USA in 2016. Hoping they can convince Lambert to play for Team Canada.

It's very unlikely but if HC can snag him that's great. You cannot afford to have some kind of code that says.."we can't go after that player, he isn't a product of our system" No one else thinks that way, why should HC?

It's completely foolish to limit yourself as an organization and tie your hands in a way none of your competitors would do.


There is probably a 1% chance we get him but why not try if it's possible?

 

[JackSlater]

It's very unlikely but if HC can snag him that's great. You cannot afford to have some kind of code that says.."we can't go after that player, he isn't a product of our system" No one else thinks that way, why should HC?

It's completely foolish to limit yourself as an organization and tie your hands in a way none of your competitors would do.


There is probably a 1% chance we get him but why not try if it's possible?

That's pathetic way to look at it, but yes it is something that other countries try to do and sadly Hockey Canada stoops to as well. The whole thing renders international hockey pointless when Finnish players play for Canada, Canadian players play for USA, American players play for Sweden. You would hope that Hockey Canada would strive to be better than the competition and not stoop to the same tactics but that ship has long sailed. "Other people are doing it" is a poor justification.

 

[jj cale]

That's pathetic way to look at it, but yes it is something that other countries try to do and sadly Hockey Canada stoops to as well. The whole thing renders international hockey pointless when Finnish players play for Canada, Canadian players play for USA, American players play for Sweden. You would hope that Hockey Canada would strive to be better than the competition and use Canadian players but then again you would also hope that Canadian fans wouldn't be the type to write Canadian teams off before tournaments begin and then crow and gloat about the victory when they're wrong.

Your viewpoint is reasonable and correct in a perfect world, unfortunately, which you readily admit here, it isn't.

As for what I said about the Canadian team before and after the tournament, I don't see why anyone can't have a viewpoint about what they think the chances of a team are before a tournament, you mean to say you cannot point out what the team did well and that they were indeed good when you are proved wrong about them? I mean..........you can't be a fan? besides, what I thought about Team Canada before and after the tournament has nothing to do with whether we should pursue dual citizenship players or not.

This all seems to stem from a post where I said you tend to guarded in your assessments of Team Canada performances, you seem to have taken that as some sort of insult against you and it was never that, It meant that you tended to as a fan not get too high when the team wins nor too low when the team loses. I regret that you took it in the manner you seem to have, it was not meant to be that way.

But enough of that, your point is duly noted about how things should work in regards to who plays for whom in international hockey and since it does not work that way it is silly to limit ourselves when no one else would limit themselves like that, it's just bad business.

I am glad HC doesn't see it your way, we aren't mandated to be the knight of morals in international hockey.

 

[JackSlater]

Your viewpoint is reasonable and correct in a perfect world, unfortunately, which you readily admit here, it isn't.

As for what I said about the Canadian team before and after the tournament, I don't see why anyone can't have a viewpoint about what they think the chances of a team are before a tournament, you mean to say you cannot point out what the team did well and that they were indeed good when you are proved wrong about them? I mean..........you can't be a fan? besides, what I thought about Team Canada before and after the tournament has nothing to do with whether we should pursue dual citizenship players or not.

This all seems to stem from a post where I said you tend to guarded in your assessments of Team Canada performances, you seem to have taken that as some sort of insult against you and it was never that, It meant that you tended to as a fan not get too high when the team wins nor too low when the team loses. I regret that you took it in the manner you seem to have, it was not meant to be that way.

But enough of that, your point is duly noted about how things should work in regards to who plays for whom in international hockey and since it does not work that way it is silly to limit ourselves when no one else would limit themselves like that, it's just bad business.

I am glad HC doesn't see it your way, we aren't mandated to be the knight of morals in international hockey.

This stems from a nonsensical viewpoint that Canada should take a mercenary approach to constructing a team. Lambert is a Finnish hockey player - a product of the Finnish hockey system. There is no debate that he is and only a flaw in the IIHF's eligibility rules allows Canada to be an option for him. What other countries do in constructing teams has nothing to do with what Canada should be doing. To hope that Canada can steal a player from Finland, which is essentially what Hockey Canada is attempting, is pathetic and makes hockey in Canada look pathetic. It's unfortunate that people are so desperate and have so little confidence in Canada to win with actual Canadian players.

Hopefully Lambert gets locked in with Finland soon and Hockey Canada can focus all of its energy on players who should represent Canada.

 

[jj cale]

This stems from a nonsensical viewpoint that Canada should take a mercenary approach to constructing a team. Your attempts to cover your bases by writing the previous team off and then being one of the primary gloaters when the team won are annoying and noted for the future but have nothing to do with this, nor does the blinders you put on once the team won. Lambert is a Finnish hockey player - a product of the Finnish hockey system. There is no debate that he is and only a flaw in the IIHF's eligibility rules allows Canada to be an option for him. What other countries do in constructing teams has nothing to do with what Canada should be doing. To hope that Canada can steal a player from Finland, which is essentially what Hockey Canada is attempting, is pathetic and makes hockey in Canada look pathetic. It's unfortunate that people are so desperate and have so little confidence in Canada to win with actual Canadian players.

Hopefully Lambert gets locked in with Finland soon and Hockey Canada can focus all of its energy on players who should represent Canada.

Hey, if all the countries would get together and say they are not going to go after dual citizen players if they have been brought up in a countries program for all or most of their development then I would back your viewpoint up 100% until that happens you have to do all you can according to the rules and meeting what your competition is willing to do according to the rules, anything less is as I said just a bad decision that ties your hands in a way no other countries hands are and is the wrong decision.

I like you as a poster Jack, always have, When to comes to knowledge of our players games at the junior level in their respective junior clubs and what line makeups there should be for our teams and defensive pairings I don't think I am even in your league. Having said that I don't always agree with what you say and sometimes think you are in error, such as on this issue or on how Canada won their game against the Russians. I think you are clearly wrong there.

As for this issue, and this issue is whether pursuing players like Lambert is fair game, HC apparently doesn't agree with you either and their viewpoint is the only one that counts, not posters on HF.

 

[Gold Standard]

Pfft, I have already given the reasons for my viewpoint, the rest here is just how you are trying to cover your bases on a viewpoint that HC clearly doesn't agree with and neither do the rest of the other hockey Federations. Continuing to hammer on stuff like supposed gloating and whatnot doesn't even cover anything to do with the subject of duals.

Hey, if all the countries would get together and say they are not going to go after dual citizen players if they have been brought up in a countries program for all or most of their development then I would back your viewpoint up 100% until that happens you have to do all you can according to the rules and meeting what your competition is willing to do according to the rules, anything less is as I said just a bad decision that ties your hands in a way no other countries hands are and is the wrong decision.

I like you as a poster Jack, always have, When to comes to knowledge of our players games at the junior level in their respective junior clubs and what line makeups there should be for our teams and defensive pairings I don't think I am even in your league. Having said that I don't always agree with what you say and sometimes think you are in error, such as on this issue or on how Canada won their game against the Russians. I think you are clearly wrong there.

As for this issue, and this issue is whether pursuing players like Lambert is fair game, HC apparently doesn't agree with you either and their viewpoint is the only one that counts, not posters on HF.

Hockey Canada should not be recruiting dual citizens. If a dual wishes to explore his own options, then he should be allowed to do so. but Hockey Canada should not be actively recruiting dual citizens.

Hockey Canada's obsession with pursuing duals (Canadian/American) at the beginning of the decade weakened a few WJC teams and probably cost us a gold medal or two.

 

[jj cale]

Hockey Canada should not be recruiting dual citizens. If a dual wishes to explore his own options, then he should be allowed to do so. but Hockey Canada should not be actively recruiting dual citizens.

Hockey Canada's obsession with pursuing duals (Canadian/American) at the beginning of the decade weakened a few WJC teams and probably cost us a gold medal or two.

I can't agree, but that's my opinion.

 

[JackSlater]

Pfft, I have already given the reasons for my viewpoint, the rest here is just how you are trying to cover your bases on a viewpoint that HC clearly doesn't agree with and neither do the rest of the other hockey Federations. Continuing to hammer on stuff like supposed gloating and whatnot doesn't even cover anything to do with the subject of duals.

Hey, if all the countries would get together and say they are not going to go after dual citizen players if they have been brought up in a countries program for all or most of their development then I would back your viewpoint up 100% until that happens you have to do all you can according to the rules and meeting what your competition is willing to do according to the rules, anything less is as I said just a bad decision that ties your hands in a way no other countries hands are and is the wrong decision.

I like you as a poster Jack, always have, When to comes to knowledge of our players games at the junior level in their respective junior clubs and what line makeups there should be for our teams and defensive pairings I don't think I am even in your league. Having said that I don't always agree with what you say and sometimes think you are in error, such as on this issue or on how Canada won their game against the Russians. I think you are clearly wrong there.

As for this issue, and this issue is whether pursuing players like Lambert is fair game, HC apparently doesn't agree with you either and their viewpoint is the only one that counts, not posters on HF.

I don't see what your point is other than that Hockey Canada is going after Lambert. We know that already. I am saying that it is pathetic of Hockey Canada to do so, because it is. It's clear where Hockey Canada stands on it, as even last year Foote was on the team despite being an American hockey player and is by no means an isolated incident. It's unfortunate that Hockey Canada is inclined to take the low road as long as the IIHF allows it.

 

[jj cale]

I don't see what your point is other than that Hockey Canada is going after Lambert. We know that already. I am saying that it is pathetic of Hockey Canada to do so, because it is. It's clear where Hockey Canada stands on it, as even last year Foote was on the team despite being an American hockey player and is by no means an isolated incident. It's unfortunate that Hockey Canada is inclined to take the low road as long as the IIHF allows it.

For bubble guys I might tend to agree with you, with elite talent like Lambert I say go for it myself.

I can't see any nation turning down a chance on a guy like Mcdavid or even say, drysdale if they were available to them as a dual within the rules, why should we? We already know the U.S does not care.

But that's me.

 

[FinPanda]

Wait you are still talking about Lambert who couldn't play for Canada until 2022 U18's anyway. He can be on the Finnish U18 roster this Spring and he will. He gets locked and all your hopes are crushed.

Why waste two years of junior career for a country he has barely lived in? He needs to play two full seasons in Canada to even be eligible to play for them. His only chance to play in WJC's for Canada would be in 2023.

 

[jj cale]

Wait you are still talking about Lambert who couldn't play for Canada until 2022 U18's anyway. He can be on the Finnish U18 roster this Spring and he will. He gets locked and all your hopes are crushed.

Why waste two years of junior career for a country he has barely lived in? He needs to play two full seasons in Canada to even be eligible to play for them. His only chance to play in WJC's for Canada would be in 2023.

There is talk about him because apparently Hockey Canada is making some sort of effort to have him represent Canada. I doubt many Canadian fans feel there is much chance of this, but it will generate some discussion.

These sorts of things always do.

 

[FinPanda]

There is talk about him because apparently Hockey Canada is making some sort of effort to have him represent Canada. I doubt many Canadian fans feel there is much chance of this, but it will generate some discussion.

These sorts of things always do.

So where did that thing come from that Hockey Canada is doing something or is this based on the thing McKenzie said ages ago?

 

[FinPanda]

And from Lambert's interview:

– Helsinki antoi minulle paljon hyviä juttuja, ja maajoukkueohjelma täällä on loistava. Saan pelata täällä useissa eri maajoukkueissa, ja jos olisin Kanadassa, se ei olisi mahdollista.
- Helsinki gave me a lot of good things and the national team program here is excellent. I can play here for a multiple different national teams and if I was in Canada, I couldn't.

NHL-asiantuntijalta hurja vihjaus: Kanada yrittää viedä Suomi-kiekon superlupauksen – ”Kaikki ovat hänen perässään”

National team is a big deal for him.

 

[jj cale]

So where did that thing come from that Hockey Canada is doing something or is this based on the thing McKenzie said ages ago?

Not quite sure, have just been seeing it on here.

 

[landy92mack29]

The Lambert convo is a giant waste of time for Canada roster. He'll be playing for Finland next year so it is what it is. A couple of the Sask+Alberta WHL teams are interested in bringing him over in the import but not much progress has even been made there. He has spent a fair amount of time in Canada though as he comes back to Sask in the summer to visit his dads side and train. Arguing about a 1% chance situation is pointless imo so better to just move on

 

[FinPanda]

The Lambert convo is a giant waste of time for Canada roster. He'll be playing for Finland next year so it is what it is. A couple of the Sask+Alberta WHL teams are interested in bringing him over in the import but not much progress has even been made there. He has spent a fair amount of time in Canada though as he comes back to Sask in the summer to visit his dads side and train. Arguing about a 1% chance situation is pointless imo so better to just move on

Yeah, actually we don't need to wait even for a year. He'll be on a Finnish U18 team at the U18 WJC's in a few months.

 

[canuck2010]

The American experience is proving that the off spring of professional players have a leg up in terms of developing as hockey players. Resources, opportunity, interest etc. Too lazy to check on the actual numbers but there at must be 50 professional teams in the USA. More and more we are seeing dual citizens repping the USA and not just Canadian duals either. By the way 3 of the the top 4 ranked Americans in the 2020 draft are duals.
Not sure what the answer however I do think it a problem for international hockey competitions. I would hope that we don't get to a situation where the highest bidder wins.

 

[Mehar]

It's very unlikely but if HC can snag him that's great. You cannot afford to have some kind of code that says.."we can't go after that player, he isn't a product of our system" No one else thinks that way, why should HC?

It's completely foolish to limit yourself as an organization and tie your hands in a way none of your competitors would do.


There is probably a 1% chance we get him but why not try if it's possible?

I agree with you. It is completely foolish to limit yourself as an organization. I am glad Hockey Canada went after the Foote brothers. There have been countless examples over the years of the Sons of Canadian hockey players that donned the Jersey of the USA, instead of Canada- even whey they were a product of our system.

Hockey Canada should be aggressive in targeting dual citizens that show an interest in playing for Canada. You cannot live by some crazy code. Codes do not translate into Medals on the World Stage. I do not think Lambert will play for Canada, but even if there is a slight chance, i am glad Hockey Canada is showing they are serious and aggressively targeting him.

 

[JackSlater]

I agree with you. It is completely foolish to limit yourself as an organization. I am glad Hockey Canada went after the Foote brothers. There have been countless examples over the years of the Sons of Canadian hockey players that donned the Jersey of the USA, instead of Canada- even whey they were a product of our system.

Hockey Canada should be aggressive in targeting dual citizens that show an interest in playing for Canada. You cannot live by some crazy code. Codes do not translate into Medals on the World Stage. I do not think Lambert will play for Canada, but even if there is a slight chance, i am glad Hockey Canada is showing they are serious and aggressively targeting him.

It's almost sad that Canadian hockey hasn't produced enough that anyone would view wanting Canadian players, as in players from Canada who grew up playing hockey in Canada, on team Canada rather than mercenaries as a "crazy code". Almost sad is probably too kind of a way to phrase it actually. The IIHF has taken steps to tighten up eligibility to make it more difficult for mercenaries, and though it is unlikely there will hopefully come a time when Canadians don't hope for American players to deign to play for Canada because they aren't allowed to.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

It's almost sad that Canadian hockey hasn't produced enough that anyone would view wanting Canadian players, as in players from Canada who grew up playing hockey in Canada, on team Canada rather than mercenaries as a "crazy code". Almost sad is probably too kind of a way to phrase it actually. The IIHF has taken steps to tighten up eligibility to make it more difficult for mercenaries, and though it is unlikely there will hopefully come a time when Canadians don't hope for American players to deign to play for Canada because they aren't allowed to.

It seems like a entirely to black and white mind frame to have. Do you think Canada should have no dual citizen players or is it just the ones that you deem not to meet your own criteria of what an actual Canadian is? Who are you to tell a Canadian kid born in Colorado to a Canadian father and an American mother that he is anymore Canadian then he is American? It is an entirely personal decision. My only gripes with these things are the cases when kids bail on one nation for one that is easier for them to crack....and how many are coming to Canada for an easier crack at the teams?

 

[JackSlater]

It seems like a entirely to black and white mind frame to have. Do you think Canada should have no dual citizen players or is it just the ones that you deem not to meet your own criteria of what an actual Canadian is? Who are you to tell a Canadian kid born in Colorado to a Canadian father and an American mother that he is anymore Canadian then he is American? It is an entirely personal decision. My only gripes with these things are the cases when kids bail on one nation for one that is easier for them to crack....and how many are coming to Canada for an easier crack at the teams?

I said nothing about Canada not selecting dual citizens. Hockey Canada shouldn't select players who were primarily trained outside of Canada to represent Canada in hockey. I don't care about whether someone is a dual-citizen and no, it is not simply a personal decision even by the too-lenient rules that currently exist. To be honest I'd be quite content with a player playing for team Canada even if they were not a Canadian citizen, provided the player was actually from Canada and grew up playing hockey primarily in Canada. I would not be content with a Tkachuk brother playing for Canada, for example, even though their mother is Canadian and they likely have citizenship.

 

[jj cale]

I agree with you. It is completely foolish to limit yourself as an organization. I am glad Hockey Canada went after the Foote brothers. There have been countless examples over the years of the Sons of Canadian hockey players that donned the Jersey of the USA, instead of Canada- even whey they were a product of our system.

Hockey Canada should be aggressive in targeting dual citizens that show an interest in playing for Canada. You cannot live by some crazy code. Codes do not translate into Medals on the World Stage. I do not think Lambert will play for Canada, but even if there is a slight chance, i am glad Hockey Canada is showing they are serious and aggressively targeting him.

Until the IIHF tightens up the rules like Slater alluded to I don't think we have any choice but to pursue these duals, not doing so would be like playing a whole period of hockey shorthanded.

We just can't do that to ourselves.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Hockey Canada's obsession with pursuing duals (Canadian/American) at the beginning of the decade weakened a few WJC teams and probably cost us a gold medal or two.

Huh? Names, please.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Who are blatant examples of players playing for the “wrong” country ?

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Who are blatant examples of players playing for the “wrong” country ?

Historically speaking? There are a number of Ukrainians and Kazakhs that played for Russia at the U-18 or U-20 basically in order to make it easier to play in the KHL. Then there are the players committing to the U.S. program despite never having played a day of developmental hockey in that country (Michael Campoli, Thomas Bordeleau). Both Bordeleau's parents are Canadian. Then there is the case of Dainus Zubrus, who never played hockey in Russia until after he represented them at the 2004 World Cup (thankfully he later switched to Lithuania).