Red Sox/MLB 2020 Spring Training IX - Red Sox say Chris Sale has a flexor strain, will be reassessed in a week

[CDJ]

I'd be willing to bet nearly anything that he ends up getting the surgery before next year. This is the team playing games again, just trying to get something out of him before he eventually gets his arm fixed. Just like they did with Lackey. Just like they did with Schilling.

yeah I strongly disagree that they are forcing him to pitch injured

and again, you don’t get it unless the experts say you have to get the surgery. I trust the opinion of James Andrews and ElAttache (or whatever his name is) over the opinions of you, who just wants to yell about ownership at every turn to the point where you think they’re trying to squeeze 10 starts out of sale with a partially torn UCL in a lost season (which is again hilarious because you don’t know the injury yet are clamoring for tommy john, a massive surgery which people sometimes don’t recover from). There’s more in an elbow than the ulnar ligament, it could be a flexor injury or stress fracture among other possible issues. You just don’t know. Those don’t require tommy john. And even if it is a partially torn ucl, pitchers have recovered from that without the operation. Hell people thought price should have got TJ years ago...he didn’t and he healed up and led us to a World Series. 4 years later he’s still gone without the surgery. Tanaka. Ervin Santana. That’s just off the top of my head

in conclusion, you do not get the surgery unless Andrews tells you to get it. It’s too risky. I highly doubt they would go against the wishes of the highest quality (orthopedic?) surgeons in the country and I highly doubt Sale would as well

 

[CDJ]

McHugh was the best of whats around

if they stink and he’s ok then they can flip him at the deadline

 

[CDJ]

Chris Sale Diagnosed With Flexor Strain

Look at that, I was right in saying that y’all complaining don’t even know the injury you’re complaining about....it’s not even something tommy John would fix. Let’s get mad about him not having an irrelevant surgery though! They’re totally trying to pitch him injured so they could punt on next year too! Obviously! Chris Sale is totally fine going along with that!

 

[CDJ]

Or you just don’t get tommy john unless you 100% have to. Which means they think he could heal like Tanaka

Go follow the career of our own former top prospect Anderson Espinoza to see why you don’t get the surgery unless you 100% have to. Ppl act like it’s a simple fix. It’s not. You’re sometimes not able to make it back. Sometimes injuries keep compounding on themselves like they’ve done with Espinoza. Sometimes you lose all your command and control. Sometimes you lose the sharpness on your breaking stuff.

If you’re getting multiple recommendations from the foremost expert surgeons on the planet and they don’t deem it necessary yet then you don’t get it. It’s as simple as that.

the idea that people think they would punt on next season to try and get 15 starts out of an injured Sale this year is hilarious. The people that think Sale would willingly do that are also hilarious.


Also we don’t know what in his elbow is the particular problem- it may not even be an ulnar ligament injury. It could be a flexor strain for all we know. It could be a stress fracture. Hell it could be dead arm this time of year. Nobody here knows

You sexy genius


Side note I’ve had a flexor issue from pitching in the past. It makes it feel like you’re getting stabbed when you throw. Not great!

the moral of the story is not every elbow injury requires major surgery shutting down a guys life for 15 months, possibly even ending his career

 

[LSCII]

Chris Sale Diagnosed With Flexor Strain

Look at that, I was right in saying that y’all complaining don’t even know the injury you’re complaining about....it’s not even something tommy John would fix. Let’s get mad about him not having an irrelevant surgery though! They’re totally trying to pitch him injured so they could punt on next year too! Obviously! Chris Sale is totally fine going along with that!

If it was just a flexor strain, why did they need 3 different opinions? Not buying it at all.

 

[CDJ]

If it was just a flexor strain, why did they need 3 different opinions? Not buying it at all.

...because they want to make sure they’re not going to deploy their ace pitcher (that they pay $30 mill to) with an injury that does require surgery and would also put him out for next year

are you seriously not buying them wanting to be extra careful with their #1 investment that’s already had some arm issues?

but yeah they’re making up injuries now so they could justify throwing a guy who needs tommy John for like 10 starts in a lost season. And also punting on next season too.



One day that UCL might snap. Wouldn’t shock me. It hasn’t yet though, and Tommy john wont do anything to help him until it does






All 3 doctors agreed that this is the best course of action, zero recommendations for surgery. Maybe they do recommend surgery in 2 months if nothing is better but when you have 3 highly regarded doctors saying no surgery yet then you just can’t justify doing it


Tyler Beede in SF just got diagnosed with a flexor AND UCL sprain. They’re both in the elbow and overcompensating for one injury can lead to the other being injured. None of this is ideal for Sale but at the end of the day you can only do what the doctors tell you. So in conclusion: hopefully he’s like Andrew Miller and recovers fine from the flexor issue (like in 2016) but there’s always a chance this leads to further issues down the road. Tough spot to be in.

 

[LSCII]

...because they want to make sure they’re not going to deploy their ace pitcher (that they pay $30 mill to) with an injury that does require surgery and would also put him out for next year

are you seriously not buying them wanting to be extra careful with their #1 investment that’s already had some arm issues?

but yeah they’re making up injuries now so they could justify throwing a guy who needs tommy John for like 10 starts in a lost season. And also punting on next season too.



One day that UCL might snap. Wouldn’t shock me. It hasn’t yet though, and Tommy john wont do anything to help him until it does






All 3 doctors agreed that this is the best course of action, zero recommendations for surgery. Maybe they do recommend surgery in 2 months if nothing is better but when you have 3 highly regarded doctors saying no surgery yet then you just can’t justify doing it


Tyler Beede in SF just got diagnosed with a flexor AND UCL sprain. They’re both in the elbow and overcompensating for one injury can lead to the other being injured. None of this is ideal for Sale but at the end of the day you can only do what the doctors tell you. So in conclusion: hopefully he’s like Andrew Miller and recovers fine from the flexor issue (like in 2016) but there’s always a chance this leads to further issues down the road. Tough spot to be in.

As this ownership group is all about spin and controlling the narrative, I don't see why anyone would logically believe anything they say. If you want to, go right ahead. I'll make sure to remind you later this year when Sale is getting surgery that we had this conversation.

And again, if all 3 surgeons truly agreed, there is no need to go out and get second and third opinions. Plus you seem to be of the thought process that this is a Sox decision. It is, but it isn't. Sale certainly has something to say about the course of treatment, no? And Sale himself has been reluctant to go under the knife.

In reality, if you want to know what's truly happening, just follow the timeline of this. He gets hurt last year and shut down. They say he was going to rest and resume throwing in a few weeks, but that never happened. They finally cleared him late this winter to resume a throwing program, camp starts, he throws 15 pitches in batting practice, the pitching coach says all those injury issues are behind him, and the next day they shut him down and he gets 3 different doctors to review his medicals. Hard to buy anything those guys are saying about this.

 

[CDJ]

As this ownership group is all about spin and controlling the narrative, I don't see why anyone would logically believe anything they say. If you want to, go right ahead. I'll make sure to remind you later this year when Sale is getting surgery that we had this conversation.

And again, if all 3 surgeons truly agreed, there is no need to go out and get second and third opinions. Plus you seem to be of the thought process that this is a Sox decision. It is, but it isn't. Sale certainly has something to say about the course of treatment, no? And Sale himself has been reluctant to go under the knife.

In reality, if you want to know what's truly happening, just follow the timeline of this. He gets hurt last year and shut down. They say he was going to rest and resume throwing in a few weeks, but that never happened. They finally cleared him late this winter to resume a throwing program, camp starts, he throws 15 pitches in batting practice, the pitching coach says all those injury issues are behind him, and the next day they shut him down and he gets 3 different doctors to review his medicals. Hard to buy anything those guys are saying about this.

So basically All 3 doctors they consulted say no surgery yet you want him to have surgery? Is that what we’re getting at here?


It’s mind blowing to me. Also the fact you don’t think they’d be extra careful with Sale’s arm at this point is also mind-blowing to me. You go get 2nd and 3rd opinions from Andrews and ElAttache to make sure you’re not putting your $30 mill pitcher in further jeopardy. They probably wanted to confirm Andrews prior opinion that his UCL was not in need of surgery since Sale still had pain this spring. They went and got it confirmed.

feel free to remind me if he does need surgery down the road. It won’t have anything to do with stuff said today. Flexor issues CAN lead to further elbow problems down the road as I stated in the post you quoted. But As of today 3 world class surgeons/doctors say he doesn’t need surgery. You apparently think people are lying about their opinions as if they wouldn’t come out and correct it being that their reputations would be put on the line.

not everything is a conspiracy. They’re not even the ones speaking on it lol. I get disliking the ownership group but give me a break with this nonsense. Like they’re gonna further jeopardize their $150 million investment and jeopardize their potential playoff earnings next season while in a punt year this season. They’re doing what the doctors say is best.

 

[KrejciMVP]

As this ownership group is all about spin and controlling the narrative, I don't see why anyone would logically believe anything they say. If you want to, go right ahead. I'll make sure to remind you later this year when Sale is getting surgery that we had this conversation.

And again, if all 3 surgeons truly agreed, there is no need to go out and get second and third opinions. Plus you seem to be of the thought process that this is a Sox decision. It is, but it isn't. Sale certainly has something to say about the course of treatment, no? And Sale himself has been reluctant to go under the knife.

In reality, if you want to know what's truly happening, just follow the timeline of this. He gets hurt last year and shut down. They say he was going to rest and resume throwing in a few weeks, but that never happened. They finally cleared him late this winter to resume a throwing program, camp starts, he throws 15 pitches in batting practice, the pitching coach says all those injury issues are behind him, and the next day they shut him down and he gets 3 different doctors to review his medicals. Hard to buy anything those guys are saying about this.

Its only March and I'm worn out from the spin this year already. They spent so much time dealing their best player we now get to see make shift pitching staff put together. Do they have a closer? No. Do they have a 1 and 2 starter? No

 

[Gator Mike]

Its only March and I'm worn out from the spin this year already. They spent so much time dealing their best player we now get to see make shift pitching staff put together.

I'm not sure exactly what you were expecting them to do this winter.

Do they have a closer?

Yes. Brandon Workman. Or maybe you weren't paying attention last year?

Do they have a 1 and 2 starter? No

Guy who finished 6th in the AL Cy Young voting last year doesn't qualify as at least a #2 starter?

 

[KrejciMVP]

I'm not sure exactly what you were expecting them to do this winter.


Yes. Brandon Workman. Or maybe you weren't paying attention last year?


Guy who finished 6th in the AL Cy Young voting last year doesn't qualify as at least a #2 starter?

Workman can close games but I still think of him as closer as committee. I prefer him in the pen but they have nobody else. They went from a closer who saved 42 games to their closer saving 16 games, so they are still lacking a true closer.

Erod is their # 1 now by default. He had a good year last year but he was their #4 to start the year. Will he repeat his 19 wins and 3.81 ERA, they'll certainly need him too. If they hit a losing streak they don't have a real ace who can be the stopper and take the ball the shut down an opposing team

 

[CDJ]

Probably looking at something like

E-Rod
Eovaldi
Pérez
Opener (McHugh bulk guy)
Opener (Weber bulk guy)


They plan on having Weber throw his cutter more this year as it was a really effective pitch for him, should be interesting. If he can log like 100 innings of upper 4 ERA ball that would be nice


Worst case scenario with McHugh is that he’s probably our 2nd best reliever lol

 

[LSCII]

So basically All 3 doctors they consulted say no surgery yet you want him to have surgery? Is that what we’re getting at here?


It’s mind blowing to me. Also the fact you don’t think they’d be extra careful with Sale’s arm at this point is also mind-blowing to me. You go get 2nd and 3rd opinions from Andrews and ElAttache to make sure you’re not putting your $30 mill pitcher in further jeopardy. They probably wanted to confirm Andrews prior opinion that his UCL was not in need of surgery since Sale still had pain this spring. They went and got it confirmed.

feel free to remind me if he does need surgery down the road. It won’t have anything to do with stuff said today. Flexor issues CAN lead to further elbow problems down the road as I stated in the post you quoted. But As of today 3 world class surgeons/doctors say he doesn’t need surgery. You apparently think people are lying about their opinions as if they wouldn’t come out and correct it being that their reputations would be put on the line.

not everything is a conspiracy. They’re not even the ones speaking on it lol. I get disliking the ownership group but give me a break with this nonsense. Like they’re gonna further jeopardize their $150 million investment and jeopardize their potential playoff earnings next season while in a punt year this season. They’re doing what the doctors say is best.

So now it's a UCL strain. Last year it was called inflammation and he had a PRP treatment injected into his elbow. And all it took was 15 pitches to go right back to where he was. You think that honestly sounds like a "strain" that will get better with rest? The guy just f***ing rested for 6 months and it took just 15 pitches to end up where he was in August.

As for the doctors, you again seem to misstate things to a shockingly naive level. You don't think that the doctors laid out all their options and let the player and team decide which they feel is best? You don't think teams and players ask their medical professionals if they can make something worse by trying to pitch through it? I mean really? For a guy that follows baseball like you appear to, it's so odd to me that you'd take such a simplistic view of how things work.

 

[CDJ]

So now it's a UCL strain. Last year it was called inflammation and he had a PRP treatment injected into his elbow. And all it took was 15 pitches to go right back to where he was. You think that honestly sounds like a "strain" that will get better with rest? The guy just f***ing rested for 6 months and it took just 15 pitches to end up where he was in August.

As for the doctors, you again seem to misstate things to a shockingly naive level. You don't think that the doctors laid out all their options and let the player and team decide which they feel is best? You don't think teams and players ask their medical professionals if they can make something worse by trying to pitch through it? I mean really? For a guy that follows baseball like you appear to, it's so odd to me that you'd take such a simplistic view of how things work.

no, it’s a flexor strain. That is not the UCL. The UCL didn’t incur any further damage.

All 3 doctors didn’t recommend surgery. You can try and say what you want but you’re arguing against reality and quite frankly I have no interest in further debating this with you since you just want to turn it into an ownership bitch-fest. You’re going to believe that they are lying about what the world-renown doctors told them, I’m not going to Believe that. It’s not a simplistic view at all. You’re just creating your own reality

he may need the surgery down the line but you don’t get it unless the doctors tell you to.

 

[LSCII]

no, it’s a flexor strain. That is not the UCL. The UCL didn’t incur any further damage.

All 3 doctors didn’t recommend surgery. You can try and say what you want but you’re arguing against reality and quite frankly I have no interest in further debating this with you since you just want to turn it into an ownership bitch-fest. You’re going to believe that they are lying about what the world-renown doctors told them, I’m not going to Believe that

Nah, no need to turn it into an ownership bitch fest. Those guys suck plenty on their own without me saying it.

Time will tell now, won't it? You think he's good to go, I see a guy that hasn't pitched since August and when he tried, he ended up with elbow issues again. That doesn't sound healthy to me.

 

[CDJ]

Nah, no need to turn it into an ownership bitch fest. Those guys suck plenty on their own without me saying it.

Time will tell now, won't it? You think he's good to go, I see a guy that hasn't pitched since August and when he tried, he ended up with elbow issues again. That doesn't sound healthy to me.

I don’t think he’s good to go, he isn’t healthy. He has a flexor strain. It’s just nothing tommy John can fix right now. They’re two separate issues. And you don’t undergo Tommy John unless you absolutely have to.

if he ultimately does need tommy john down the line people have to realize he may not bounce back. We’re not talking about a low mileage 24 year old with an effortless delivery here. This isn’t an “oh get the surgery now so you can be our ace in 2021”. He may not be an ace when and IF he fully recovers.


Ownership does suck though, this just isn’t why imo

 

[LSCII]

Mazz: Red Sox left praying for a miracle with Chris Sale and his elbow

Weird. I thought Sale was fine because the Sox and 72 of the leading specialists said so...

 

[McGarnagle]

I'm mainly grateful that I dont have to see Hector Velazquez pitch ever again.

 

[LSCII]

I'm mainly grateful that I dont have to see Hector Velazquez pitch ever again.

True story. Definitely addition by subtraction...

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

 

[CDJ]

[

Mazz: Red Sox left praying for a miracle with Chris Sale and his elbow

Weird. I thought Sale was fine because the Sox and 72 of the leading specialists said so...

I’m going with the medical opinions of James Andrews and the other dude with a cool name over felgers nut sniffer

flexor strain can go hand-in-hand with Tommy John, but often times it doesn’t. All three doctors agreed that this is the best course of action, you do not get the surgery until they say you get the surgery for the reasons I’ve outlined 1000 times


It is kind of hilarious that the White Sox announced a moncada extension today

 

[CDJ]

I'm mainly grateful that I dont have to see Hector Velazquez pitch ever again.

After last year God bless

 

[yazmybaby]

I think Jason Vargas is still a FA?
He is a decent #5 guy.
I mentioned before that the Sox should take a chance on Aaron Sanchez for next year, low risk high reward.
Don't think he will be pitching this year.

 

[yazmybaby]

Red Sox sign former Astros righty McHugh

First look at potential Opening Day lineup; Verdugo making weekly progress