Speculation: 2020 Offseason Thread
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M88K
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Newy regime brought in
Smith, Klingberg, Lindell, Faksa, Oleksiak, Ritchie, Chiasson, McKenzie, nemeth, Dillon, roussel, jokipakka, morrow, eakin, and Shore.
Of those 3 are key players that make up the core of this team. 2 more were traded for our #1center.
And 1 other was traded for our previous #2center
Some fizzled out obviously. But all showed promise at one point.
Nill has Robertson, Harley and Oettinger of even give a pity view to include Dellandrea after 7 years. That is still left in the farm of any substance
serp
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Yeah and all those guys only became key players under Nill . Well into Nills tenure as well. Yes Niewys draftpicks but most of those never even played AHL when he was here. Good draftpicks but they developed under Nill . Alot of this is also because the team got an owner who was willing to go out and spend money on player development including buying the Texas Stars.
M88K
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If you want to give Nill credit for something he had nothing to do with sure. They became key players under Nill because he's had an infinite leash for mistakes while Newy got 4 yrs only
serp
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Gaglardi wanted to bring in his own management team and that was his right. I don't think Nill did worse than Niewy who i agree was screwed by the ownership situation at the time but also made some bad decisions.
M88K
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I'm not defending him as a gm by any means but all those players didn't become key players because of anything Nill did that wouldn't have happened with any other gm including Newy.
He mad a lot of mistakes as GM. How much was him and how much was the budget situation we'll never know but since he never got another shot at gm maybe it was mostly him.
But I don't know how anyone could look at Nills prospect cupboard and think it is strong or even good.
No top 6 centers coming , no top 6 rws coming, 1 top 4 Dman and 1 top 6 LW. And a maybe #1goalie.
After 7yrs of mostly mid to high draft picks
You can't evaluate his 7 years of drafting by only looking at the current cupboard, you need to look at the graduated players as well. I don't think that is what you are actually doing, but the bolded part of your message makes it seem like you are.
I think the drafting has been better recently but we won't know if that is true for a few years. I'd rather have them trade back to get a couple more picks because like you said, they'll probably end up drafting the same player at 50 that they would at 30, might as well get another pick out of it.
Smelling Salt
Busey is life
I have shit on Nill and McDunno many times on here but I think Harley, Robertson, Oettinger, Dellandrea, Caamano and even Gardner are quality young 2nd wave Dallas Stars. Do I wish there was a high-end playmaking centre in that group? Sure. Did Nill seem to have monkeys choose draft picks in the past? Yep. Is McDunno's continued employment in the NHL because of nepotism? Of course.
M88K
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Graduated picks in the entire Nill era
Dickinson, Hintz, Gurianov, Nichushkin.
And one of them was given away for free.
The only thing that makes his drafting palatable is the lotto pick they failed into.
Oettinger could be a #1g at some point and Robertson has top 6 LW potential and Harley has top4 D potential.
Outside of that 3rd or 4th lines at best and that is 3-4 players only
Damiani,Dellandrea,Gardner,Caamano
More than likely 2-3 of them end up like McKenzie, Ritchie, Lundqvist a couple years of ok play before out of the league
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MrHeiskanen
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You include players like Gemel Smith and Curtis McKenzie as wins for Newy while skipping over players like Julius Honka for Nill?
Im confused.
Im confused.
Is the Nichshkin pick on Nill though? He was highly thought of. Teams liked him.
Val sucked for us and is playing for another contract with Colorado so he was motivated this year. Well it may have been a mistake to take him, sometimes guys just don't pan out because they don't give a crap once they make the NHL. That's my feeling on Val anyways.
Nill and company deserve some credit for better development of young players. I always thought it was more important than actual picks. Teams like the SF 49's managed to find late round talent, that might have fallen because they were 0.1 second slower in the 40 or whatever, and taught them the system.
Stars did a lousy job of it under Niewy. Better now, maybe Niewy was held back by the bankruptcy. If you are going to count sucesses, its also guys like Dowling, Hanley and Fedun who can step in and play the system well enough when injuries occur.
I think in the end, both GMJN's will be considered about average drafters. 16 NHLer's for Niewy isn't bad out of 4 years and 28 or so picks, plus some good UFA (Dillon, Roussel) that still play in the NHL. And Cogs didn't even include Jack Campbell in that list, who is finally a lower tier NHL goalie, who the Stars probably ruined.
To match that, Nill drafted a 7th round goalie who got traded to Vegas and became Methot. Nill has done better on trades and UFA (which to be fair, Niewy couldn't pursue.
NoCogs2020 is just one of those fans who tends to only find the negative on key players and staff, while finding it hard to give credit. For example, Nill failed into Miro. Somewhat true, as they missed the PO that year, but if nothing else, we have to say he trumped Niewy in lottery luck.....
Stars did a lousy job of it under Niewy. Better now, maybe Niewy was held back by the bankruptcy. If you are going to count sucesses, its also guys like Dowling, Hanley and Fedun who can step in and play the system well enough when injuries occur.
I think in the end, both GMJN's will be considered about average drafters. 16 NHLer's for Niewy isn't bad out of 4 years and 28 or so picks, plus some good UFA (Dillon, Roussel) that still play in the NHL. And Cogs didn't even include Jack Campbell in that list, who is finally a lower tier NHL goalie, who the Stars probably ruined.
To match that, Nill drafted a 7th round goalie who got traded to Vegas and became Methot. Nill has done better on trades and UFA (which to be fair, Niewy couldn't pursue.
NoCogs2020 is just one of those fans who tends to only find the negative on key players and staff, while finding it hard to give credit. For example, Nill failed into Miro. Somewhat true, as they missed the PO that year, but if nothing else, we have to say he trumped Niewy in lottery luck.....
M88K
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Of course it is on Nill. Just like Glennie is on Nieuwendyk.
Nieuwendyk had a pretty firm no Russian rule, it's why he stopped the Kulikov pick with Glennie.
Regardless there's nothing wrong with that pick. Statistically it's still Nills best forward pick.
But he's also the one that A) let his coach drive him back to Russia, B) overpaid to bring him back C) sent him into UFA.
How could it not be on him?
Regardless of how we feel about Nichushkin he's one of the Nill eras very few "successes" drafting. Again.
We're closing in on a decade of him at the helm and our only key player he drafted was with a lotto pick. With Hintz being borderline still. And only 1 potential top6 player in Robertson coming
M88K
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What about him?
If Hintz who is better at almost everything (save shooting) than Gurianov is borderline why would he be considered "key".
Morry83
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Man this guy is exhausting
M88K
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I included Reilly Smith not Gemel.
McKenzie was a player that at one point was thought to have a solid chance at the NHL in a depth role. Other than by a few people here idk who thought Honka had a shot at the NHL but sure we can include him for Nill he's an 80game flame out basically a D version of McKenzie.
Im insulted you'd think I'd include Gemel Smith
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Sorry all.
I guess Gurianov isn't finally showing who he is as a player.
I was wrong to think so.
GO STARS!
I guess Gurianov isn't finally showing who he is as a player.
I was wrong to think so.
GO STARS!
M88K
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What are you talking about? He's shown exactly what he is all year.
He's got a good shot, so when a pp is tailored to get him the puck where he can use it he'll pick up points and he's good for a rush chance once every few games. Outside of that he's a player who when he's not scoring will have almost 0 positive impact on a game.
He's basically Kevin Shattenkirk in forward form
Just like in politics, someone will argue, with some justification, that the current president is living off the momentum, etc. of the last one. Most will say that the President (GM in this case) who is in power at the time of any specific success gets credit. Stars in finals for first time in 20 years, the balance of the moves made by Nill are the reason (and players playing great, of course)
One thing not mentioned is the players Nill elected to let go as part of the rebuild when he came in, guys like Dillon, Eakin, Garbut, Roussel, etc. The same guys complaining now were probably (from memory, but not sure of individual posters) calling all of them "total trash" as well. And, also correct to some degree, but Nill had the vision as to how to supplement the players he inherited, who to hire as coaches, which is a GM skill, too. I doubt any team ever traded every single player drafted or acquired by the previous GM, not if they were good. Again, sum total of moves has proven to be pretty good. Some fans argue for perfect, which just ain't gonna happen, because it never has.
I would put perfect GM'ing at building a contender in 3 years, and then actually contending for 3 years, as that seems to be what it takes for most winners. We thought we had that in 2016, right on schedule, but it went backwards, and he went into the next three year rebuild mode, with a few forced errors (i.e., hiring Hitch, not all his fault) and here we are. Probably a contender last year, lost to champs, definitely a contender in year 4 of phase 2.
Again, not perfect, but not bad either. 30 other GM's would love to be in this place now. And maybe 20+ have never gotten this close to a Cup.
M88K
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WhoahNow
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Personally, I don't think that Gurianov is a liability on the ice by any means. If he isn't scoring I'd say he's more of a net neutral player (like a lot of the stars forwards), but he's probably the most dangerous player for creating rush chances and is the most dangerous powerplay weapon. Could he be better defensively sure, but he's still a rookie hopefully that will improve.
BigG44
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Damn ... Gurianov was a little closer to that $212,500 bonus than I thought. I had already written him off for making the All Rookie Team, but he actually finished 4th which was higher than I expected.
Had he finished 3rd among forwards for All Rookie, Dallas would have added another $212,500 to the bonus overage.
Had he finished 3rd among forwards for All Rookie, Dallas would have added another $212,500 to the bonus overage.
BigG44
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This is a pretty unlikely scenario, but after seeing some of the expected contracts for Pietrangelo it at least entered my mind. It seems the pundits have settled on STL is offering $8 x 8, and on the market they're thinking he'll make about $9.5 x 7. That's below market IMO. I don't think any other team could compete with a top four including Heiskanen-Pietrangelo and Lindell-Klingberg. Long-term, you absolutely could lose Klingberg or Lindell (trade to make cap space for Klingberg). You can make it work though for at least 2 years easily.
Expansion actually works as well. To sign Pietrangelo, you have to move Radulov who is only due $1 million next season, and he has a limited trade clause. That opens up and expansion slot as well.
You protect 4 D and 4 forwards. Benn and Seguin have to be protected. You take a risk and give Faksa a 1 year deal this season making him an UFA this summer during expansion. Seattle shouldn't make poor decisions and draft UFAs, and if they do, there's no guarantee they sign. You then only have to protect 2 of Hintz, Gurianov, and Dickinson.
LeBrun speculated that Vegas, Toronto, and Calgary are the logical landing spots. Dallas and Vegas offer significant tax savings. I think you could make a solid case for either team that they're the better landing spot. The downside is Dallas could really use offense, but maybe you don't pass up creating a really solid Top 4.
Expansion actually works as well. To sign Pietrangelo, you have to move Radulov who is only due $1 million next season, and he has a limited trade clause. That opens up and expansion slot as well.
You protect 4 D and 4 forwards. Benn and Seguin have to be protected. You take a risk and give Faksa a 1 year deal this season making him an UFA this summer during expansion. Seattle shouldn't make poor decisions and draft UFAs, and if they do, there's no guarantee they sign. You then only have to protect 2 of Hintz, Gurianov, and Dickinson.
LeBrun speculated that Vegas, Toronto, and Calgary are the logical landing spots. Dallas and Vegas offer significant tax savings. I think you could make a solid case for either team that they're the better landing spot. The downside is Dallas could really use offense, but maybe you don't pass up creating a really solid Top 4.
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