2020 Off Season Discussion Part IV

[FormerSabresFan]

I think there is definitely the possibility of moving a goaltender as we currently have 3 signed to one-way contracts (Kuemper, Raanta, Hill). IMO I would like to move Raanta and focus on mid-round pick(s). I know a few others on the board wouldn't mind moving Kuemper, but only for a 1st at minimum which I would imagine the Sabres are not willing to do.

Mittelstadt is an intriguing prospect to me, however not sure if the value matches up with either Kuemper or Raanta.

I would add that our GM did hint at feeling pretty confident the roster we currently have would be the one that we start the year with. Not sure if that is a smokescreen or not...

Thanks for the reply, seems like there's at least some room for discussion.

I'd probably do Kuemper for a 1st provided you took back Hutton to make the cap work. You could keep him as a decent backup or bury him in the minors if you think Hill is ready to backup for Raanta.

Or, I would look at something around Raanta for a 2nd and Mittelstadt provided again you could take Hutton as part of the deal as well to make the cap work.

PS - I assumed you guys would have cap space but I was just looking at Cap Friendly and looks like you're pretty full...is that right though...what the hell...how are guys out of cap space?

 

[technoviking]

Psh I’d do raanta for 2nd and mittelstadt. Fax over the paperwork. We’re out of cap space because we have a lot of expensive vets on the team. Stepan, goose, demers hjalmarsson, all who expire after the season. Then you have the extensions for OEL, keller, schmaltz. Kessels contract. Still have hossa’s contract that will be moved to LTIR

 

[YotesFan47]

Thanks for the reply, seems like there's at least some room for discussion.

I'd probably do Kuemper for a 1st provided you took back Hutton to make the cap work. You could keep him as a decent backup or bury him in the minors if you think Hill is ready to backup for Raanta.

Or, I would look at something around Raanta for a 2nd and Mittelstadt provided again you could take Hutton as part of the deal as well to make the cap work.

PS - I assumed you guys would have cap space but I was just looking at Cap Friendly and looks like you're pretty full...is that right though...what the hell...how are guys out of cap space?

Haha new owner man! We finally get to spend to the cap (even if the internal budget is a bit less)!

I'd be down with that. Mittelstadt may still bust but I figured him to be a project anyway. I imagine a year in the minors (as a center) and then he gets the call to come play 3c for the big club. Tops out as a decent 2c for 2-4 years of wait, plus a 2nd which is still a respectable pick for a goalie.

 

[rt]

Thanks for the reply, seems like there's at least some room for discussion.

I'd probably do Kuemper for a 1st provided you took back Hutton to make the cap work. You could keep him as a decent backup or bury him in the minors if you think Hill is ready to backup for Raanta.

Or, I would look at something around Raanta for a 2nd and Mittelstadt provided again you could take Hutton as part of the deal as well to make the cap work.

PS - I assumed you guys would have cap space but I was just looking at Cap Friendly and looks like you're pretty full...is that right though...what the hell...how are guys out of cap space?

It would more likely be Raanta for the 2nd OR Mittelstadt, not both.

 

[Schemp]

It would more likely be Raanta for the 2nd OR Mittelstadt, not both.

I was thinking about Goligoski included to Buffalo, if we can get a 3rd team to take Montour.

 

[XX]

I was thinking about Goligoski included to Buffalo, if we can get a 3rd team to take Montour.

Buffalo is on his NTC list.

 

[Schemp]

Buffalo is on his NTC list.

...after the off-season the Sabres had, you don't think he would revise it?

 

[WrinkledPossum]

...after the off-season the Sabres had, you don't think he would revise it?

Logically he should, but I'm not too sure he cares that much about winning.

He has friends on the team and it's warm. I bet he's content to spend the whole season here.

 

[RemoAZ]

Armstrong needs to make a huge deal to get change the narrative in the press. Good time to go get us Matthews! Ok, maybe not but how about a big move to shake up the top six?

 

[Heldig]

It would more likely be Raanta for the 2nd OR Mittelstadt, not both.

I like Mittelstadt. I would eagerly do that trade given his potential.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Thanks for the reply, seems like there's at least some room for discussion.

I'd probably do Kuemper for a 1st provided you took back Hutton to make the cap work. You could keep him as a decent backup or bury him in the minors if you think Hill is ready to backup for Raanta.

Or, I would look at something around Raanta for a 2nd and Mittelstadt provided again you could take Hutton as part of the deal as well to make the cap work.

PS - I assumed you guys would have cap space but I was just looking at Cap Friendly and looks like you're pretty full...is that right though...what the hell...how are guys out of cap space?

Boy Blunder

 

[Jakey53]

Armstrong needs to make a huge deal to get change the narrative in the press. Good time to go get us Matthews! Ok, maybe not but how about a big move to shake up the top six?

Hard to do with teams having no money. All we have for trade are old vets that very few team want or can afford.

 

[Jakey53]

I like Mittelstadt. I would eagerly do that trade given his potential.

What potential is that?

 

[Grimes]

What potential is that?

Top 10 Center in Fortnight

 

[lanky]

I like Mittelstadt. I would eagerly do that trade given his potential.

I'd do that trade too, but Mittelstadt's ceiling is probably Schmaltz and he carries a lot of bust potential. Definitely not Bill's type.

 

[Jagged Ice]

I'd do that trade too, but Mittelstadt's ceiling is probably Schmaltz and he carries a lot of bust potential. Definitely not Bill's type.

A couple of weeks ago someone here (possibly XX) said exactly what I always thought about Mittelstadt after that draft. He was a stud in Eden Prairie, Minnesota as a skinny high schooler but you don't sign him without going to a division 1 school for at least a couple of years. He should have played for the Gophers first.

 

[Schemp]

Au contraire! Meruelo makes A. Matthews the face of several of his businesses in the guise of marketing hockey in the desert. Matthews - is seen promoting casinos, pizzerias and sushi. The summer Matthews becomes a UFA, the Coyotes offer him a 7 year max money contract. Uncle Gary slaps a damning penalty on the franchise for tampering. They lose the equivalent of a max offer sheet. 4 first round picks. Hockey the hard way. Coyotes hockey.

I think the Leafs will trade AM a year earlier to the Coyotes, before his nmc kicks in (just a prediction).

 

[Name Nameless]

Psh I’d do raanta for 2nd and mittelstadt. Fax over the paperwork. We’re out of cap space because we have a lot of expensive vets on the team. Stepan, goose, demers hjalmarsson, all who expire after the season. Then you have the extensions for OEL, keller, schmaltz. Kessels contract. Still have hossa’s contract that will be moved to LTIR

Mittelstadt doesn't have a contract just now. He is in that weird 10.2(c) territory, so he doesn't have much leverage, but he can always refuse to sign at all and bail to Europe. Still, what kind of contract he gets should count in on his value.

But it seems he would fit right in, based on his stats.

While I'm at it: I hope the players will be as mad as me when (if) this season ever starts. That should help.

 

[rt]

Some trades Chayka made involving former, current and future 1st and 2nd rounders (keeping it to guys 25 or younger at the time of the trades, that actually still had real trade value and weren't total busts at that point-so leaving out guys like Henrik Samulesson, as an example):

2016 2nd for Anthony DeAngelo*
2011 1st (Connor Murphy) for Niklas Hjalmarsson
2017 1st and Anthony DeAngelo for Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta
2012 2nd (Jordan Martinook) for Marcus Kruger*
Marcus Kruger for Vinny Hinostroza*, Jordan Oesterle, and Marian Hossa
2013 1st (Max Domi) for Alex Galchenyuk*
2015 1st (Dylan Strome) and 2014 1st (Brendan Perlini) for Nick Schmaltz
2017 1st (PO Joseph) and Alex Galchenyuk for Phil Kessel
2020 1st, 2015 1st (Nick Merkley), 2018 2nd (Kevin Bahl) for Taylor Hall*
2020 2nd and 2021 1st sanctioned by the NHL for cheating

This means that Chayka has:

1. Niklas Hjalmarsson
2. Derek Stepan
3. Antti Raanta
4. Jordan Oesterle
5. Nick Schmaltz
6. Phil Kessel

...to show for:

1. 2016 2nd
2. 2011 1st
3. 2017 1st
4. 2012 2nd
5. 2013 1st
6. 2015 1st
7. 2014 1st
8. 2017 1st
9. 2020 1st
10 2015 1st
11 2018 2nd
12 2020 2nd
13 2021 1st

...in other words....

NINE 1st round picks and FOUR 2nd round picks for Hjalmarsson, Stepan, Raanta, Oesterle, Schmaltz, and Kessel

 

[rt]

Some trades Chayka made involving former, current and future 1st and 2nd rounders:

2016 2nd for Anthony DeAngelo*
2011 1st (Connor Murphy) for Niklas Hjalmarsson
2017 1st and Anthony DeAngelo for Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta
2012 2nd (Jordan Martinook) for Marcus Kruger*
Marcus Kruger for Vinny Hinostroza*, Jordan Oesterle, and Marian Hossa
2013 1st (Max Domi) for Alex Galchenyuk*
2015 1st (Dylan Strome) and 2014 1st (Brendan Perlini) for Nick Schmaltz
2017 1st (PO Joseph) and Alex Galchenyuk for Phil Kessel
2020 1st, 2015 1st (Nick Merkley), 2018 2nd (Kevin Bahl) for Taylor Hall*
2020 2nd and 2021 1st sanctioned by the NHL for cheating

This means that Chayka has:

1. Niklas Hjalmarsson
2. Derek Stepan
3. Antti Raanta
4. Jordan Oesterle
5. Nick Schmaltz
6. Phil Kessel

...to show for:

1. 2016 2nd
2. 2011 1st
3. 2017 1st
4. 2012 2nd
5. 2013 1st
6. 2015 1st
7. 2014 1st
8. 2017 1st
9. 2020 1st
10 2015 1st
11 2018 2nd
12 2020 2nd
13 2021 1st

...in other words....

NINE 1st round picks and FOUR 2nd round picks for Hjalmarsson, Stepan, Raanta, Oesterle, Schmaltz, and Kessel

But it was probably all worth it, right? Even though Arizona is certainly not going to offer contract extensions to any of Hjalmarsson, Stepan, Raanta or Kessel. Think of all the great hockey the Coyotes played under Chayka? Let's see:

The Coyotes earned 47.5% of all points they there eligible for from 2016-2017. Only three NHL teams earned a smaller share of points; Ottawa (45.9%), Buffalo (45.1%), and Detroit (41.8%).

So despite being such a prolific trader of young talent and squanderer of draft picks, and despite cheating, John Chayka only managed to win more games during his reign than Ottawa, Buffalo, and Detroit. Despite the Coyotes being over the cap right now, and their 1st pick in 2020 being a 5th rounder (the Coyotes also lack a 1st and a 3rd in 2021).

 

[rt]

I think Chayka was very quietly, very sneakily, one of the worst, most destructive GMs of the last decade. But he won't get the credit he's due on that, because it was really death by a thousand paper cuts. People really remember the guys with a couple of big blunders, rather than those who just made a ton of bad decisions on a smaller scale. But when you look at how they all added up, it's shockingly bad.

A lot of it will hinge on the growth of Keller, Chychrun, Schmaltz, Hayton, Jenik, Maccelli, and Soderstrom. If there aren't a couple of legitimate All-Start caliber players in that list, I can't imagine a worse legacy for any GM to leave in his wake. What an absolute disaster of an experiment.

 

[rt]

Would you guys trade:

1. Niklas Hjalmarsson
2. Derek Stepan
3. Antti Raanta
4. Jordan Oesterle
5. Nick Schmaltz
6. Phil Kessel

for

1. Anthony DeAngelo
2. Connor Murphy
3. Jordan Martinook
4. Max Domi
5. Dylan Strome
6. POJ

???

(I won't even mention Merkely, Bahl, and the 2020 and 2021 picks).

 

[SniperHF]

I'm not really a fan of these exercises it ignores too much context IE purge 1.0 w/ Barroway, Ironically enough Craig Morgan's tweet prior to the draft that we all make fun of sums up the context well




I can't believe that was just 3 years ago feels like 30

 

[rt]

I'm not really a fan of these exercises it ignores too much context IE purge 1.0 w/ Barroway, Ironically enough Craig Morgan's tweet prior to the draft that we all make fun of sums up the context well




I can't believe that was just 3 years ago feels like 30

So don’t judge his tenure based on the guys he shipped out versus the guys he brought in, don’t judge him on the team’s results (P%) and don’t judge him on how the team is positioned today?

Interesting approach.

 

[rt]

Kahun is signing in Edmonton. Got it via a German outlet that’s quoting his agent directly. One year deal. He makes zero sense for Edmonton. I can believe Holland’s strategy to this off-season. They’ve opted to keep the goaltending and blueline the same. Up front they’ve added a bunch of small, skilled forwards to the bottom six in Turris, Ennis and now Kahun.

How in the hell are they supposed to be any better this season than the team that just failed to make the playoffs?

Meanwhile, I think Kahun would have been a fantastic fit to fill that HUGE, glaring 2LW hole.