2020 NHL Draft

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CupfortheSharks

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Wow... you went back 4 seasons? C'mon man that is a hilariously small and insignifigant sample size. Still, how many of them are more important than EK65 to a team? none? And Peitrangelo isn't signing for 6mil. Likely he gets closer to 8 or even 9 depending on the team. Oh and how are you going to get big name players to sign to the team? Having cap space, especially for San Jose, never means your guaranteed you get to spend it.
DW has never had a problem using all of our cap space.
I don’t think Pietrangelo will sign for 6, but he will easily sign for less than Karlsson’s 11.5.
I only went back 4 years because I’m lazy.
#3 OA plus 11.5M in cap space > Karlsson next year and moving forward.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

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Wow... you went back 4 seasons? C'mon man that is a hilariously small and insignifigant sample size. Still, how many of them are more important than EK65 to a team? none? And Peitrangelo isn't signing for 6mil. Likely he gets closer to 8 or even 9 depending on the team. Oh and how are you going to get big name players to sign to the team? Having cap space, especially for San Jose, never means your guaranteed you get to spend it.

How about Draisaitl? Huberdeau? Seth Jones went fourth but it was a shock he wasnt taken 3rd and Preds were "forced" to take yet another D
 

PacificOceanPotion

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I don't care who's there at number three. If it's not a guy who's ready to step into a lineup day one and be at an All-Star level, I wouldn't want him over EK. Erik Karlsson is in his prime right now. He's what the Sharks need.
 

Doctor Soraluce

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I don't care who's there at number three. If it's not a guy who's ready to step into a lineup day one and be at an All-Star level, I wouldn't want him over EK. Erik Karlsson is in his prime right now. He's what the Sharks need.
exactly. :thumbu: And there's no way to guarantee that they will. Jumbo scored 7 points in 55 games in his rookie season. Jumbo. 1st ballot HOFer. 7.
DW has never had a problem using all of our cap space.
I don’t think Pietrangelo will sign for 6, but he will easily sign for less than Karlsson’s 11.5.
I only went back 4 years because I’m lazy.
#3 OA plus 11.5M in cap space > Karlsson next year and moving forward.
Spending all the space and getting elite level players are different things. Go ahead, name all the elite UFAs, that didn't get traded to the Sharks first, that have signed in SJ? Make a list. o_O
How about Draisaitl? Huberdeau? Seth Jones went fourth but it was a shock he wasnt taken 3rd and Preds were "forced" to take yet another D
Show the guarantee that says whoever is picked at 3OA this year turns into someone as good as Draisaitl? Nothing? So it's a crap shoot. EK65 was pick #15. draft picks are a crap shoot no matter how sure a thing they are. Ask Ottawa about expecting greatness out of high draft picks... I'm old enough to remember all the hype around Alexandre Daigle as 1st overall. He was as sure a thing as you'll ever see going into a draft. :laugh:

Sorry but all you dudes are wrong and I'm glad as hell that none of you have any influence over my favorite team. I'm taking the 30 year old established elite player over a draft pick and worthless cap space every time and you'll be hard pressed to find a GM (someone paid to manage actual NHL rosters) who would think any different.
 
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PacificOceanPotion

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"Ooooooh look at the shiny lottery pick!!" Lol when resigning EK was on the line everyone was clamouring for that! That 1st rounder we traded had a question mark all over it. It's unfortunate things have gone the way they have but we have 3 friggin picks in the top 60. We're gonna be ok.
 
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TheWayToRefJose

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Still thinking we haven’t seen the best from EK65 in teal yet. Between having an extra long time to heal and train in the extended off season, getting used to having a kid, and getting rid of PDBs system, which just had EK65 and Burns sitting stationary at the point and launching it towards the net instead of attacking the net and pulling defenders out of place, he should be way better. If he’s not better next year, then it’s time to worry.
 

Doctor Soraluce

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Still thinking we haven’t seen the best from EK65 in teal yet. Between having an extra long time to heal and train in the extended off season, getting used to having a kid, and getting rid of PDBs system, which just had EK65 and Burns sitting stationary at the point and launching it towards the net instead of attacking the net and pulling defenders out of place, he should be way better. If he’s not better next year, then it’s time to worry.
For 20 something games that first season he looked like the best defenseman in the NHL. He also was starting to look better later this last season until he got hurt. He was on pace for 58 points with very little help from the forward group. With this much time off I'll be shocked if he isn't dominant again the next season.
 
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Mr Fahrenheit

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exactly. :thumbu: And there's no way to guarantee that they will. Jumbo scored 7 points in 55 games in his rookie season. Jumbo. 1st ballot HOFer. 7.

Spending all the space and getting elite level players are different things. Go ahead, name all the elite UFAs, that didn't get traded to the Sharks first, that have signed in SJ? Make a list. o_O

Show the guarantee that says whoever is picked at 3OA this year turns into someone as good as Draisaitl? Nothing? So it's a crap shoot. EK65 was pick #15. draft picks are a crap shoot no matter how sure a thing they are. Ask Ottawa about expecting greatness out of high draft picks... I'm old enough to remember all the hype around Alexandre Daigle as 1st overall. He was as sure a thing as you'll ever see going into a draft. :laugh:

Sorry but all you dudes are wrong and I'm glad as hell that none of you have any influence over my favorite team. I'm taking the 30 year old established elite player over a draft pick and worthless cap space every time and you'll be hard pressed to find a GM (someone paid to manage actual NHL rosters) who would think any different.

Show me the guarantee that EK will be a great player next season
 

Doctor Soraluce

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Show me the guarantee that EK will be a great player next season
LOL! Yeah ok dude... You're clearly just being obtuse but I'll humor you for a moment. A decade of time in the NHL proves it. Until you can show me he isn't producing at an elite level your complaint is without merit. He wasn't without problems this last season but on pace for 58 points is great and frankly I wouldn't expect that much from the tire fire the Sharks were at all levels. Burns went in the tank, VLasic went in the tank, the forwards other than a few were shit and the defence/goaltending was trash until BB took over. I can't guarantee he won't get hurt but his 2 injuries with the Sharks were unrelated to each other and basically flukes.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

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LOL! Yeah ok dude... You're clearly just being obtuse but I'll humor you for a moment. A decade of time in the NHL proves it. Until you can show me he isn't producing at an elite level your complaint is without merit. He wasn't without problems this last season but on pace for 58 points is great and frankly I wouldn't expect that much from the tire fire the Sharks were at all levels. Burns went in the tank, VLasic went in the tank, the forwards other than a few were shit and the defence/goaltending was trash until BB took over. I can't guarantee he won't get hurt but his 2 injuries with the Sharks were unrelated to each other and basically flukes.

Point being using history of Erik Karlsson is a good enough argument while using history of 3rd overall picks apparently is lol worthy

But yet you are talking about a top 3 pick being a guaranteed star player? Hypocritical much? Karlsson we know what we are getting, which is at his very worst he has ever been in his career a near 60 point defensemen.

Im sorry his hypocritical posts spilled onto me, next time read all the posts instead of just the ones that make you rush to your keyboard so fast

From now on i'll make obvious posts even more obvious since everyone cant recognize it. Note: I never once said anything was guaranteed
 

Doctor Soraluce

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Point being using history of Erik Karlsson is a good enough argument while using history of 3rd overall picks apparently is lol worthy



Im sorry his hypocritical posts spilled onto me, next time read all the posts instead of just the ones that make you rush to your keyboard so fast

From now on i'll make obvious posts even more obvious since everyone cant recognize it. Note: I never once said anything was guaranteed
Dude, I don't know how you can't see that a decade sample size with ONE player isn't the same any sample size of different players picked at the random spot of 3rd. But for your sake, let's try. :laugh: Tell me what the percentage over the last 30 years that the #3 pick has turned into a generational talent (yes EK65 is a generational talent on D). How about simply top 5 player at their position? There is no comparison. EK65 has the proven track record of above average to elite level of play. I'm betting the percentages end up somewhere in the 60 to 70% for 3 round picks AT BEST. Probably closer to 60% or less over the last 30 years. Drafting 18 year olds is always somewhat of a crap shoot. A 30 year old EK65 is not. 603 points in 736 games. Good luck drafting a forward with that scoring ability let alone a defenseman. He put up 16 points in 19 games playing on basically one leg in the playoffs for the Sharks. Like I said, he didn't injure his on ice vision. ;)

And this didn't "spill on to you". You chose to reply without the requisite understanding of sample sizes to make a logical argument here.
But yet you are talking about a top 3 pick being a guaranteed star player? Hypocritical much? Karlsson we know what we are getting, which is at his very worst he has ever been in his career a near 60 point defensemen.
Exactly. This is just a dumb conversation.
 
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Juxtaposer

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Absolutely wild that no one here is asking the real question: will we be a real Stanley Cup contender in the next three years, five years even? If the answer is yes, then you definitely take Karlsson. If the answer is no, you definitely take the third overall pick.

If I had the option of adding either Erik Karlsson or the 3rd overall pick to the 2015-2016 Sharks, then obviously I’d take Karlsson. The Sharks with Karlsson added that year would have smacked the Pens. But what would I pick for the 2020 Sharks? I think you see where this is going.

I’m honestly very sorry to come back with what I’m sure is an identical post to many I’ve made before, but this is getting ridiculous. Arguing whether Karlsson or a 3rd overall pick is more valuable in a vacuum with no context is completely pointless.
 

Pavelski2112

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Absolutely wild that no one here is asking the real question: will we be a real Stanley Cup contender in the next three years, five years even? If the answer is yes, then you definitely take Karlsson. If the answer is no, you definitely take the third overall pick.

If I had the option of adding either Erik Karlsson or the 3rd overall pick to the 2015-2016 Sharks, then obviously I’d take Karlsson. The Sharks with Karlsson added that year would have smacked the Pens. But what would I pick for the 2020 Sharks? I think you see where this is going.

I’m honestly very sorry to come back with what I’m sure is an identical post to many I’ve made before, but this is getting ridiculous. Arguing whether Karlsson or a 3rd overall pick is more valuable in a vacuum with no context is completely pointless.

The context is re-signing Karlsson after a year where they were two wins away from a second Cup Final in 4 years. We all knew they would lose scoring depth, but no one would've guessed that they would've been anywhere near being last in the West.

In trading for Karlsson? That was also a slam dunk - two (at the time) low 1sts and a couple depth players, plus a couple ok-to-good prospects was easy for one of the best defensemen of the past 20 years.

People love to say #3 for EK65, but ultimately, none of us could've possibly known that first would become a top-3 pick. Hindsight is 20/20.
 

Juxtaposer

Outro: Divina Comedia
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The context is re-signing Karlsson after a year where they were two wins away from a second Cup Final in 4 years. We all knew they would lose scoring depth, but no one would've guessed that they would've been anywhere near being last in the West.

In trading for Karlsson? That was also a slam dunk - two (at the time) low 1sts and a couple depth players, plus a couple ok-to-good prospects was easy for one of the best defensemen of the past 20 years.

People love to say #3 for EK65, but ultimately, none of us could've possibly known that first would become a top-3 pick. Hindsight is 20/20.

I’m not debating that the trade and the re-signing were both good. They were and I love having Karl on this team. I’m only addressing the folks saying it would be stupid to take the 3rd overall pick over Karlsson right now.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

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Dude, I don't know how you can't see that a decade sample size with ONE player isn't the same any sample size of different players picked at the random spot of 3rd. But for your sake, let's try. :laugh: Tell me what the percentage over the last 30 years that the #3 pick has turned into a generational talent (yes EK65 is a generational talent on D). How about simply top 5 player at their position? There is no comparison. EK65 has the proven track record of above average to elite level of play. I'm betting the per engages end up somewhere in the 60 to 70% for 3 round picks AT BEST. Probably closer to 60% or less over the last 30 years. Drafting 18 year olds is always somewhat of a crap shoot. A 30 year old EK65 is not. 603 points in 736 games. Good luck drafting a forward with that scoring ability let alone a defenseman. He put up 16 points in 19 games playing on basically one leg in the playoffs for the Sharks. Like I said, he didn't injure his on ice vision. ;)

And this didn't "spill on to you". You chose to reply without the requisite understanding of sample sizes to make a logical argument here.

Exactly. This is just a dumb conversation.

You are just babbling now. How is EK's season at 23 or 26 relevant for next season? Should we have Jumbo at 1c? he has a proven track record!!! Now you want to compare EK next season to 30 years of draft picks? Jesus lol. What you dont seem to realize is we are in a world where people have a future and the past has very little bearing on things. Would you rather have a retired generation defenseman or Draisaitl?

This board is so awful, i didnt even argue anything, give an opinion or guarantee anything. I literally only listed a few players drafted 3rd overall, you just started fuming and then i get laughed at for being a hypocrite, lol amazing. God forbid you arent the king of opinions
 

Pavelski2112

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I’m not debating that the trade and the re-signing were both good. They were and I love having Karl on this team. I’m only addressing the folks saying it would be stupid to take the 3rd overall pick over Karlsson right now.

Oh sure, I was more replying to the people that have been looking at it as it is now than as it was then. Easy to be an armchair GM after everything is said and done already.
 
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Doctor Soraluce

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You are just babbling now. How is EK's season at 23 or 26 relevant for next season? Should we have Jumbo at 1c? he has a proven track record!!! Now you want to compare EK next season to 30 years of draft picks? Jesus lol. What you dont seem to realize is we are in a world where people have a future and the past has very little bearing on things. Would you rather have a retired generation defenseman or Draisaitl?

This board is so awful, i didnt even argue anything, give an opinion or guarantee anything. I literally only listed a few players drafted 3rd overall, you just started fuming and then i get laughed at for being a hypocrite, lol amazing. God forbid you arent the king of opinions
Really? This is your response? You really can't see the difference between a 41 year old and a 30 year old? I could spend the time and explain it to you but frankly I still don't think you'd get why you're rediculously wrong. Its cool man believe what you want. It's wrong, but go ahead with your bad self. Funny that you think I'm "fuming". :laugh: I just pointed out where your version of critical thinking failed you.
 
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The Nemesis

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Ok, everyone needs to cool it and step back. There's a lot of borderline flaming and really unnecessary attitude going on here.

If you can't make your point without being a dick about it, maybe you need to re-evaluate how you interact with people. And no, it's not someone else's fault that they said something you think is dumb and it set you off. Be better. Don't be an assclown.
 

Doctor Soraluce

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So, anyway, yeah, I'm keeping EK65, 30 year old generational talent defenseman with experience as a captain over this years 3OA if the goal is to contend or rebuild. Unless of course he requested a trade. The cap space isn't really needed in a rebuild because the other high dollar contracts would be gone so he would be easily affordable. His skill and production will keep the kids from being pummeled every night. Realistically a rebuild would only take 2 or 3 years with the assets returned trading Burns, Couture, Vlasic, Jones, Labanc and whatever other mediocre prospects are sent out to sweeten deals.
 

jarr92

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Dude, I don't know how you can't see that a decade sample size with ONE player isn't the same any sample size of different players picked at the random spot of 3rd. But for your sake, let's try. :laugh: Tell me what the percentage over the last 30 years that the #3 pick has turned into a generational talent (yes EK65 is a generational talent on D). How about simply top 5 player at their position? There is no comparison. EK65 has the proven track record of above average to elite level of play. I'm betting the per engages end up somewhere in the 60 to 70% for 3 round picks AT BEST. Probably closer to 60% or less over the last 30 years. Drafting 18 year olds is always somewhat of a crap shoot. A 30 year old EK65 is not. 603 points in 736 games. Good luck drafting a forward with that scoring ability let alone a defenseman. He put up 16 points in 19 games playing on basically one leg in the playoffs for the Sharks. Like I said, he didn't injure his on ice vision. ;)

And this didn't "spill on to you". You chose to reply without the requisite understanding of sample sizes to make a logical argument here.

Exactly. This is just a dumb conversation.



The best stat you could come up with to predict Karlsson's next regular season is his career point totals?

No one is actually analyzing the actual trade and how it would impact the team next year. It isn't EK65 for #3OVR. Obviously EK65 being paid 11.5 million is going to be better next year then the #3OVR. He will also be making about 10.5 million more then whatever player is picked. With Tierney and DeMelo being F/A's, the actual affect the trade has on next year's team is:

EK65 for #3OVR, Josh Norris, Rudolfs balcers, + 9.9 million in cap (assuming Norris and Balcers would be on the Sharks next year)

The Sharks have a terrible high-end forward core, and already have a high-end OFD in Brent Burns. I don't see how it's so ridiculous to you that perhaps the team could be better structured differently. You bring up the lack of high-end F/A's coming to the Sharks, but how about all the high-end players that have been traded to SJ and stayed? That sort of trade becomes a lot more difficult when you have less trade chips (Norris and Balcers) and less cap space (11.5 going to EK65).
 
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