Pre-Game Talk: 2020 NHL Draft (October 6th - 7th)

[racerjoe]

Are you for real?? JT Miller is a versatile 50+ point player entering his prime, and has even more offensive potential as it’s a little hard to get ice time on the best regular season team in the league. If you don’t think JT Miller is worth a first round pick you are severely out to lunch.

Would you have paid a first for Mason Raymond? They are very similar in what they should be worth. I would give a slight edge to Miller, but then again Raymond was paid less. Raymond ave 45pts per season pace and put up 53 points the year before the cup run.

Not comparing their play styles just their worth.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Would you have paid a first for Mason Raymond? They are very similar in what they should be worth. I would give a slight edge to Miller, but then again Raymond was paid less. Raymond ave 45pts per season pace and put up 53 points the year before the cup run.

Not comparing their play styles just their worth.

Prime Mason Raymond? I would have definitely paid a mid-late 1st for him if I wanted to make a playoff push. JT Miller is a better player than Mason Raymond too imo. Im not arguing that the Miller trade wasn’t high risk, because it is. If we miss the playoffs both years it’s an awful trade. If the pick is late teens-20s than it’s a huge win. But if we miss the playoffs both years we have bigger problems than that trade. Benning will be long gone.

 

[racerjoe]

Prime Mason Raymond? I would have definitely paid a mid-late 1st for him if I wanted to make a playoff push. JT Miller is a better player than Mason Raymond too imo. Im not arguing that the Miller trade wasn’t high risk, because it is. If we miss the playoffs both years it’s an awful trade. If the pick is late teens-20s than it’s a huge win. But if we miss the playoffs both years we have bigger problems than that trade. Benning will be long gone.

So you think the Raymond Ballard and a 2nd package should have been able to fetch us an absolute prime asset then eh?

 

[VanJack]

Jimbo quoted as saying he 'hates' trading first round drift picks, and is looking recoup one to offset the J.T. Miller deal. Any chance he succeeds? If Tanev or Sutter has a healthy season and plays well, any chance they might fetch a late first rounder at the trade deadline?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Jimbo quoted as saying he 'hates' trading first round drift picks, and is looking recoup one to offset the J.T. Miller deal. Any chance he succeeds? If Tanev or Sutter has a healthy season and plays well, any chance they might fetch a late first rounder at the trade deadline?

-0 chance

 

[Foundational Player]

Lol no it really isn’t. You don’t know that Nyqvist wanted to come here forsure first of all. Secondly, JT Miller is a better fit and hockey player imo, and is on a great contract. The 1st is going to end up being middle of the pack/late which is very fair for a player of Jt Miller’s capabilities. That 1st will not be a lottery pick Id bet a ton on that.

What makes you believe that JT Miller will be a better fit than say G Nyquist? He hasn't played a single game with the club yet. See how he looks in December at the very least.

I would agree that I would take Miller over Nyquist but it's also been documented that he's had issues with a couple of his previous coaches. He's also been considered an 'inconsistent' player as he goes through many hot and cold spells throughout the season. He also has '3' playoff goals in 61 games, Canucks need goal scorers so not sure how he's is a 'better fit' asides from his decent play along the boards and his ability to play throughout the lineup.

Also feel he will have a difficult transition to the West coast and the additional travel, as many players do when coming over from the Eastern conference.

You have no clue as to where the draft pick will land? Could be the 2020 pick or 2021, we will know by seasons end and for god's sake it better not end up being a 2021 lottery pick.

That would be right up there with the Neely trade and would affirm Benning's legacy as the worst GM in club history.

I think you are underestimating the value of an entry level contract, especially the interest and intrigue a top ten pick brings to an organization. I'd rather wait a couple years for an up and coming 20 year old that has a bunch of potential (yes many questions but brings hope as well) than bringing in a 26 year old middle 6 forward on his 3rd team that is not getting any quicker and average under 15 minutes of ice time last season.

I sure as hell wouldn't jump off my seat to go purchase tickets to go see JT Miller play live for the Vancouver Canucks but a player coming into the league like a Podkolzin well that's something new and 'exciting' as Jim likes to say that might make me consider going to a game.

I hope your right because if the pick is a 2021 lottery pick I think we all know what pick it is going to be..............................

 

[The Drop]

Are you for real?? JT Miller is a versatile 50+ point player entering his prime, and has even more offensive potential as it’s a little hard to get ice time on the best regular season team in the league. If you don’t think JT Miller is worth a first round pick you are severely out to lunch.

That’s the worst excuse I’ve seen. Mason Raymond was a top 6 forward on a Cup Final Team.

He was on the 3rd and 4th line because there were better players than him and Tampa deemed the cap space created by shedding him was worth more than his contribution. And got a first round pick as a reward.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Are you for real?? JT Miller is a versatile 50+ point player entering his prime, and has even more offensive potential as it’s a little hard to get ice time on the best regular season team in the league. If you don’t think JT Miller is worth a first round pick you are severely out to lunch.

He might be worth a 2nd round pick to playoff team. He is not to a team that isnt in the playoffs.

JT Miller got the most PP time in his career last year, 80.2% with the no.1 PP there.

He also played 42% of his 5on5 shifts with Stamkos.


This idea that he was buried last year needs to die.
His TOI dipped because he only got ~13 mins per game for a 20 game stretch in the 3rd quarter last year.

That’s the worst excuse I’ve seen. Mason Raymond was a top 6 forward on a Cup Final Team.

He was on the 3rd and 4th line because there were better players than him and Tampa deemed the cap space created by shedding him was worth more than his contribution. And got a first round pick as a reward.

In all fairness he was more ore less the only option that they could reasonably move.

They have a whole bunch of NTC / NMC:s (BUTGILLIS!) so at least one of their hands was tied here.

 

[F A N]

He was on the 3rd and 4th line because there were better players than him and Tampa deemed the cap space created by shedding him was worth more than his contribution. And got a first round pick as a reward.

You don't think JT Miller being more valuable to other teams than some other players TB had and the fact that Miller had a restrictive no trade kicking in had something to do with him being traded?

I mean if I was a Lightning fan, I would look to trade Palat before Miller, but Palat has a NTC. I would also trade a soon to be 30 year old Killorn before Miller but he also has a full NTC and does bring a more physical element to a team lacking size, grit, and toughness up front.

In terms of GAR and WAR, Miller ranked among Tampa's top 6 forwards last season.

 

[F A N]

He might be worth a 2nd round pick to playoff team. He is not to a team that isnt in the playoffs.

How is he not worth a 2d round pick to a team that isn't in the playoffs when he's worth a 2nd round pick to a playoff team? For a team that is in the first year of a 4-5 year rebuild sure, but most non playoff teams aren't in that phase. Miller is 26 years old and won't turn 27 until March. He's a terrific hockey player. A team that isn't in the playoffs probably have a vet they can trade to recoup the 2nd.

In all fairness he was more ore less the only option that they could reasonably move.

They have a whole bunch of NTC / NMC:s (BUTGILLIS!) so at least one of their hands was tied here.

Yep. When you consider Miller's value to other teams, lack of NTC before July 1st, and value to the team, Miller was a strong candidate to be traded. Otherwise, Miller is one of the few skilled players with size they have up front and one of the younger players.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How is he not worth a 2d round pick to a team that isn't in the playoffs when he's worth a 2nd round pick to a playoff team? For a team that is in the first year of a 4-5 year rebuild sure, but most non playoff teams aren't in that phase. Miller is 26 years old and won't turn 27 until March. He's a terrific hockey player. A team that isn't in the playoffs probably have a vet they can trade to recoup the 2nd.



Yep. When you consider Miller's value to other teams, lack of NTC before July 1st, and value to the team, Miller was a strong candidate to be traded. Otherwise, Miller is one of the few skilled players with size they have up front and one of the younger players.

Sorrry that was a typo, 1st round pick. I meant a 1st rouns pick.

 

[F A N]

Sorrry that was a typo, 1st round pick. I meant a 1st rouns pick.

Ah I see. But the pick is lottery protected for a year. The Canucks are obviously betting on Miller helping the Canucks make the playoffs over the next two seasons.

 

[604]

Jimbo quoted as saying he 'hates' trading first round drift picks, and is looking recoup one to offset the J.T. Miller deal. Any chance he succeeds? If Tanev or Sutter has a healthy season and plays well, any chance they might fetch a late first rounder at the trade deadline?

Either could but if they are having great seasons, we probably keep them for our playoff push.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Jimbo quoted as saying he 'hates' trading first round drift picks, and is looking recoup one to offset the J.T. Miller deal. Any chance he succeeds? If Tanev or Sutter has a healthy season and plays well, any chance they might fetch a late first rounder at the trade deadline?

Someone should explain to Jimbo all 1st's aren't valued the same. Like the one he just gave is most likely a top 15 pick compared to what he might get back in a trade being a late 1st rd pick if anyone even gives up one.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Someone should explain to Jimbo all 1st's aren't valued the same. Like the one he just gave is most likely a top 15 pick compared to what he might get back in a trade being a late 1st rd pick if anyone even gives up one.

Pffft this is the elite Jim Benning who can draft a nhl player with every pick.

 

[F A N]

What makes you believe that JT Miller will be a better fit than say G Nyquist? He hasn't played a single game with the club yet. See how he looks in December at the very least.

One is 26. The other is 30? But sure, right now we can only discuss whether a player is a better fit "on paper."

I would agree that I would take Miller over Nyquist but it's also been documented that he's had issues with a couple of his previous coaches. He's also been considered an 'inconsistent' player as he goes through many hot and cold spells throughout the season. He also has '3' playoff goals in 61 games, Canucks need goal scorers so not sure how he's is a 'better fit' asides from his decent play along the boards and his ability to play throughout the lineup.

Miller has scored 22-23 goals in 3 out of the past 4 season. Nyquist has scored 21+ goals 2 out of the past 4 seasons, granted two of those 20 goal seasons came in the past 2 seasons. I'm not sure one can conclude that one is the better goal scorer. If you look at their respective underlying stats, Miller is the better all around player. Nyquist is a good player. I think the more relevant question is whether the Canucks would have been better off with Nyquist as opposed to Ferland if they could fit Nyquist under the cap.

I sure as hell wouldn't jump off my seat to go purchase tickets to go see JT Miller play live for the Vancouver Canucks but a player coming into the league like a Podkolzin well that's something new and 'exciting' as Jim likes to say that might make me consider going to a game.

I think the Canucks are banking on fans buying tickets to see Elias Pettersson or Horvat playing with NHL calibre top 6 wingers.

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

The 2020 draft is sick. A ridiculous amount of top end talent.

Lafreniere
Byfield
Raymond

Holtz
Perfetti
Lundell
Askarov (sick goalie prospect)

after this there's another tier of great talent

Drysdale
Barron
Lapierre
Rossi

Lafreniere is a franchise player clearcut in the Eichel Matthews Mackinnon tier. Byfield could potentially end up in that tier as well, very smooth skating huge centerman. Raymond is a very fast and skilled winger with excellent vision, a very high potential player as well. A very good year to be picking top five. Unfortunate we're likely to avoid the basement this year IMO.

I would personally LOVE to snag Raymond, he'd play really well with Pettersson IMO as Raymond is more of a playermaker.

 

[Mr Plow]

The 2020 draft is sick. A ridiculous amount of top end talent.

Lafreniere
Byfield
Raymond

Holtz
Perfetti
Lundell
Askarov (sick goalie prospect)

after this there's another tier of great talent

Drysdale
Barron
Lapierre
Rossi

Lafreniere is a franchise player clearcut in the Eichel Matthews Mackinnon tier. Byfield could potentially end up in that tier as well, very smooth skating huge centerman. Raymond is a very fast and skilled winger with excellent vision, a very high potential player as well. A very good year to be picking top five. Unfortunate we're likely to avoid the basement this year IMO.

I would personally LOVE to snag Raymond, he'd play really well with Pettersson IMO as Raymond is more of a playermaker.

I would bump Lapierre up into the second tier. His Hlinka was insane, and he's very well rounded. Button has him 2nd on his big board right now, which might be a little high, but not by much.

 

[member 290103]

Jimbo quoted as saying he 'hates' trading first round drift picks, and is looking recoup one to offset the J.T. Miller deal. Any chance he succeeds? If Tanev or Sutter has a healthy season and plays well, any chance they might fetch a late first rounder at the trade deadline?

None. Two reasons:

They would never be worth a 1st.

Benning doesn’t trade veterans for draft picks. He is all about getting warm bodies that are closer to being in the lineup than a draft pick. I suspect if was offered firsts for those players he’d turn the deal down on the premise those players are going to give his team a better chance to compete sooner.

It's all about the NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW with Jim. This notion that he wants to draft and develop is false - and he proved that by dealing a 1st round pick for a quasi-cap dump just a few months back. Again - we only have young players with upside here as a consequence of Jim's failed plan. Pure. Simple.

 

[Knight53]

Everything you want in a 1C

 

[NuxFan09]

Thank you @Dr Good Vibes and @Knight53 for getting this thread back on track.

 

[Knight53]

Byfield with a blistering start. 16 points in 6 games.

6'4 - 6'5 215 lbs centre that can move like that are rare.

 

[Horvat1C]

Byfield has been incredible to start. There's really not much more you could want in a player. He has a chance to be a skilled center that can physically dominate along the lines of Malkin. That's some serious talent.

Lundell is someone who I feel isn't getting talked about enough. He has something like the 3rd best corsi in the entire Liiga as a 17 year old center. He could be Barkov-lite.

Tim Stutzle over in the DEL in Germany has also had a very good start with 6 points in 8 games. He's an undersized center (5'11, 165 lbs) but he could be someone to look out for.

Stranges for the London Knights is super fun to watch. He's always on his inside edges picking up ridiculous amount of speed and blow past defenders.

 

[Jack Burton]

I'll be keeping my eye on the top D talent this year as I have this sneaky suspicion that this franchise will be drafting for need.

 

[Knight53]

The defence for this draft looks terrible. You have Drysdale and then a bunch of meh.

Stutzle looks like a gem and is probably my dream prospect outside (Lafreniere/Byfield/Raymond). Askarov, the goalie, looks legit. I'd be scared though if my team was picking in the top 10 and needed a top-flight goalie prospect.