2020 NHL Draft Thread: Who knows how many more days until this year's hockey tryouts? - Part III

[57special]

But you can say that about all prospects. The point is that Perfetti is a slightly above average/ average skater right now against CHL players. What happens in the AHL, where everyone is bigger stronger, faster, better? How about the NHL? Not saying he won't improve, but the risk with Perfetti is that he won't improve enough to be able to use his gifts as he moves up.

Guys like Sanderson, Drysdale, Byfield, Stutzle, Raymond are already NHL quality skaters. Lundell, Laffy, Sanderson, maybe Stutzle already strong enough, or pretty close, at least. Byfield is extremely projectable.

Rossi, Perfetti....we just don't know.

 

[AJ Thelen]

No offensive upside.

 

[thestonedkoala]

No offensive upside.

Mikael Granlund

 

[AJ Thelen]

Mikael Granlund

Patrice Bergeron.

 

[57special]

Great stream, @Ziperia ! Thanks.
Lundell with two assists already in 1st period.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

HIFK will play against Ilves today. Anton Lundell centers the first line.

Stream will start in five hours. It is watchable for free and it should not be region-blocked.

Is it preseason still?

 

[57special]

Man, the Wild could learn a thing or two from their PP...move the damn puck before they get set!

 

[57special]

And now with a goal. Just a tap in, nothing flashy, but right place, right time.

The guy just seems to do everything right, but probably wont get you out of your seat too many times. Looks like Mikko Koivu 2.0. Skating looks good. Crossovers and transitions are good...worst thing is probably his straight ahead stride, and it's nothing horrible.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Patrice Bergeron.

Didn't know that Bergeron was Finnish and a top 10 pick? Things you learn.

 

[Nsjohnson]

I've read alot of perfettis weaknesses like skating etc could be do to him not being fully grown into his body yet and needing to add strength. If thats all he needs its hard pressed to pass on that kind of talent regardless if he's a wing.

I don't feel that way at all. If you are a good or great skater it shows by the time you are 15, let alone 18. His mechanics are not ideal. Now, strength and power will get him moving faster, but what you really want is efficiency and good edgework mixed with straight line power.

He will never be a great skater. But he will improve, the question is how much and how much does he need to to play in the NHL.

 

[2Pair]

Mikael Granlund

Granlund's offensive upside had nothing to do with why he failed. Doesn't make much sense at all to bring his name up.

 

[Ziperia]

Is it preseason still?

Yes.

 

[AJ Thelen]

Didn't know that Bergeron was Finnish and a top 10 pick? Things you learn.

You brought up a name of a player you compare him with, I answered with a name I compare him with.

 

[AJ Thelen]

 

[thestonedkoala]

You brought up a name of a player you compare him with, I answered with a name I compare him with.

I brought up the fact that you keep parroting the line no offense, when it is a legitimate concern. Granlund was a standout in the Finnish League that struggled to adapt to the NHL as a center, and had to move to wing. He has had only two seasons of 60+ points, and 2 seasons of 20+ goals, before crashing again. Granlund was also developed by Minnesota, not by Boston who has a better track record than Minnesota.

 

[Bazeek]

I brought up the fact that you keep parroting the line no offense, when it is a legitimate concern. Granlund was a standout in the Finnish League that struggled to adapt to the NHL as a center, and had to move to wing. He has had only two seasons of 60+ points, and 2 seasons of 20+ goals, before crashing again. Granlund was also developed by Minnesota, not by Boston who has a better track record than Minnesota.

Country of origin and hypothetical draft position are relatively superficial ways to compare the players. Lundell's about 3 inches taller, much stronger and probably a better skater at the same age as Granlund. There's concern about his offensive upside and skill, but little concern about how his game will translate to NHL ice against NHL players. Granlund was the inverse.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Country of origin and hypothetical draft position are relatively superficial ways to compare the players. Lundell's about 3 inches taller, much stronger and probably a better skater at the same age as Granlund. There's concern about his offensive upside and skill, but little concern about how his game will translate to NHL ice against NHL players. Granlund was the inverse.

Not necessarily true though; if we're talking about Country of Origin in terms of where they are born - then yes (like Kopitar playing in the SEL but being born in Slovenia), but where they are being developed - then no. I'm not going to bring up how Tolvanen has been an absolute bust here in NA, though he's Finnish. He played in the KHL and has no bearing on Lundell as they don't play in the same league. I mean, I should have made a clarifying point on the Finnish comment, more of the league than the player.

As well, draft position is a way to compare players due to projection and overall skill. I mean are we moving so far away from Granlund's draft and development that we are starting to forget how big of an international prospect and star he was? The fact that Granlund's offense didn't translate over well is a concern, and I brought him up as he was Wild prospect.

You go back that far and these are the prospects that have been taken from the Finnish Leagues in the 1st round:

Granlund
Armia
Teravainen
Barkov
Honka
Kapanen
Rantanen
Laine
Vesalainen
Kotkainemi
Kakko

Out of those; Granlund, Kotkainemi, Armia and Barkov are the only centers that were taken. Armia has been one of the best defensive centers in the league, Granlund had to be moved to wing for him to be productive, Kotkainemi is taking his time to develop and Barkov was a top 3 pick.

I'm not discounting Aho (2nd round pick) or Donskoi (4th round pick), I'm talking about 1st round players only. We can hope that Lundell turns into an Aho type player if we select him.

Finally, you hit the nail on the head with your statement: concern about his offensive upside and skill. If someone is going to be so dismissive about the fact there are legitimate concerns regarding Lundell's offensive game AND skill, I'm going to reply in kind. And to be clear, I wouldn't mind taking Lundell personally, but I do question about how his offensive game is going to translate from center.

 

[Bazeek]

Not necessarily true though; if we're talking about Country of Origin in terms of where they are born - then yes (like Kopitar playing in the SEL but being born in Slovenia), but where they are being developed - then no. I'm not going to bring up how Tolvanen has been an absolute bust here in NA, though he's Finnish. He played in the KHL and has no bearing on Lundell as they don't play in the same league. I mean, I should have made a clarifying point on the Finnish comment, more of the league than the player.

As well, draft position is a way to compare players due to projection and overall skill. I mean are we moving so far away from Granlund's draft and development that we are starting to forget how big of an international prospect and star he was? The fact that Granlund's offense didn't translate over well is a concern, and I brought him up as he was Wild prospect.

You go back that far and these are the prospects that have been taken from the Finnish Leagues in the 1st round:

Granlund
Armia
Teravainen
Barkov
Honka
Kapanen
Rantanen
Laine
Vesalainen
Kotkainemi
Kakko

Out of those; Granlund, Kotkainemi, Armia and Barkov are the only centers that were taken. Armia has been one of the best defensive centers in the league, Granlund had to be moved to wing for him to be productive, Kotkainemi is taking his time to develop and Barkov was a top 3 pick.

I'm not discounting Aho (2nd round pick) or Donskoi (4th round pick), I'm talking about 1st round players only. We can hope that Lundell turns into an Aho type player if we select him.

Finally, you hit the nail on the head with your statement: concern about his offensive upside and skill. If someone is going to be so dismissive about the fact there are legitimate concerns regarding Lundell's offensive game AND skill, I'm going to reply in kind. And to be clear, I wouldn't mind taking Lundell personally, but I do question about how his offensive game is going to translate from center.

I think it's fair to question his upside, I just don't think Mikael Granlund is reason to do so.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I think it's fair to question his upside, I just don't think Mikael Granlund is reason to do so.

For me; Mikael Granlund had as good or even better career in the Finnish Leagues than Lundell. I think it's fair to question that Granlund couldn't cut it for very long in the NHL, how is Lundell going to do if his offense doesn't translate over? He'll be probably a good depth player, but Minnesota has a LOT of those and they seem to have a penchant for developing and signing them.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

For me; Mikael Granlund had as good or even better career in the Finnish Leagues than Lundell. I think it's fair to question that Granlund couldn't cut it for very long in the NHL, how is Lundell going to do if his offense doesn't translate over? He'll be probably a good depth player, but Minnesota has a LOT of those and they seem to have a penchant for developing and signing them.

Maybe I’m wrong but don’t they have totally different play styles? Lundell is positioning and a solid wrist shot he isn’t dangles McGee. I feel as though his offense will transition much better than granny’s. Upside is questionable sure but his style of play should be just fine to replicate in the nhl.

 

[2Pair]

It makes zero sense to compare Anton Lundell to Mikael Granlund. None

 

[thestonedkoala]

Maybe I’m wrong but don’t they have totally different play styles? Lundell is positioning and a solid wrist shot he isn’t dangles McGee. I feel as though his offense will transition much better than granny’s. Upside is questionable sure but his style of play should be just fine to replicate in the nhl.

I thought that Granlund had a pretty good wrist shot himself, but Granlund definitely had much higher offensive upside than what is being said about Lundell.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I thought that Granlund had a pretty good wrist shot himself, but Granlund definitely had much higher offensive upside than what is being said about Lundell.

That may be but they play differently so they not?

 

[thestonedkoala]

That may be but they play differently so they not?

Yes, but we are talking about offense here. Lundell may turn out to be a great defensive center, with limited to no offensive capabilities. We aren't talking about defense.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Yes, but we are talking about offense here. Lundell may turn out to be a great defensive center, with limited to no offensive capabilities. We aren't talking about defense.

I’m not talking defense. There are multiple offensive play styles and I think they are both different in that category.