Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft Thread: Part III - June 26th Lottery Confirmed by League

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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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This is a hockey problem in general. Some scouts only view players a couple of times, as viewing them more than that would ruin things and lead to nitpicking.

Wasn't that just a Hakan thing? I am pretty sure most regional scouts get a ton of views on the kids in their area.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Wasn't that just a Hakan thing? I am pretty sure most regional scouts get a ton of views on the kids in their area.

I have a friend in the industry who swears by this approach. It depends on how hyper-focused you're. Some of these guys go to games intent on focusing on just a couple guys. They watch them almost exclusively, so yes I could sit at a Frolunda game and barely notice another prospect unless he is having a spectacular game that makes you notice. By Hakan's stories on Datsyuk if I remember right that is how he got noticed, he was there to see somebody else and actually just started watching Datsyuk. That will happen and my friend says in that case it happened for a good reason, but he actually goes into a game with a clear objective on what to watch and when to watch and it isn't the same way most of us are watching a hockey game.

He thinks the sweet spot is 3 to 5 games. Flip on some film and talk to coaches, scouts and whatnot, make sure you didn't witness the four best games of the kids life. But he found early in his career you weren't paying enough attention to enough players and you started nitpicking guys when you focused too much on them. There is a balancing act in his opinion. He joked that I must have saw all 5 bad Rossi games this year when we talked last and to dig deeper...
 

ArmChairGM89

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I have a friend in the industry who swears by this approach. It depends on how hyper-focused you're. Some of these guys go to games intent on focusing on just a couple guys. They watch them almost exclusively, so yes I could sit at a Frolunda game and barely notice another prospect unless he is having a spectacular game that makes you notice. By Hakan's stories on Datsyuk if I remember right that is how he got noticed, he was there to see somebody else and actually just started watching Datsyuk. That will happen and my friend says in that case it happened for a good reason, but he actually goes into a game with a clear objective on what to watch and when to watch and it isn't the same way most of us are watching a hockey game.

He thinks the sweet spot is 3 to 5 games. Flip on some film and talk to coaches, scouts and whatnot, make sure you didn't witness the four best games of the kids life. But he found early in his career you weren't paying enough attention to enough players and you started nitpicking guys when you focused too much on them. There is a balancing act in his opinion. He joked that I must have saw all 5 bad Rossi games this year when we talked last and to dig deeper...
That’s fine, but when building statistical models on kids 8 games is totally irrelevant imo.
 

MBH

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That’s fine, but when building statistical models on kids 8 games is totally irrelevant imo.

Beats a stat model on 1 game.
You get what you get.
A 10 percent difference over 8 games probably means jack.
But sometimes, when the numbers are vastly different, then can't ignore it.
I can tell you I haven't watched 8 full games focused on any one single player, so I'll take that eight-game data, and take it with a grain of salt.
 

BStinson

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Nov 11, 2013
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That’s fine, but when building statistical models on kids 8 games is totally irrelevant imo.
I’m just being nit picky but he is just tracking data and not creating a data model. A data model would be if he was using an application like Python, Knime, etc. to create a predictive model based on at minimum thousands of rows of data. You need a ton of data because you essentially cut the data into portions (commonly 2 or 4) where some go through algorithms to create the model and other data set is used to test the data model for accuracy. Didn’t try to get to nerdy and oddly enough I don’t follow hockey analytics I just work in a heavy analytics industry.
 
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Henkka

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I have a friend in the industry who swears by this approach. It depends on how hyper-focused you're. Some of these guys go to games intent on focusing on just a couple guys. They watch them almost exclusively, so yes I could sit at a Frolunda game and barely notice another prospect unless he is having a spectacular game that makes you notice. By Hakan's stories on Datsyuk if I remember right that is how he got noticed, he was there to see somebody else and actually just started watching Datsyuk. That will happen and my friend says in that case it happened for a good reason, but he actually goes into a game with a clear objective on what to watch and when to watch and it isn't the same way most of us are watching a hockey game.

He thinks the sweet spot is 3 to 5 games. Flip on some film and talk to coaches, scouts and whatnot, make sure you didn't witness the four best games of the kids life. But he found early in his career you weren't paying enough attention to enough players and you started nitpicking guys when you focused too much on them. There is a balancing act in his opinion. He joked that I must have saw all 5 bad Rossi games this year when we talked last and to dig deeper...

Absolutely great to hear this. Been doing the same, and know that best scouts do the same.

That’s fine, but when building statistical models on kids 8 games is totally irrelevant imo.

Why build a statistical model based on 8 games you watch?

You go to the game for the EYE-TEST.

And build a statistical model based on his whole season, and look if it will fit on your eye-test or not.

I've achieved tremendous results by working like this (in a keeper league).

EDIT:

Nowadays there's so much of shooting-based data available, that you can take that from stats straight on. But that's definitely not the whole thing.

If you like to track some data also by eye-test, is the passing plays, who can't be tracked from stats anyhow, until the Smart Puck -solutions and data come available in prospect league. Track them and merge to shooting data. then you have almost everything. But defensive data is still a different world....

Also intangibles are another thing, like, you can't see a good SCREEN play from any data, because the player doesn't always touch the puck. If tip-in yes, but sometimes the play (blocking goalie's wiev) is the most important for a goal to happen, when players doesn't touch anywhere. Any data doesn't have anything about those kind of plays anywhere. Again, until the Smart Puck -comes... Player locations (with location sensors) matched to shot timing (with stick sensors), then maybe....

Then the whole scouting world will change. It's very near. In Finland we have already that system in use and developing, but certain (most important) stats are kept secret from public... wonder why. It's super lucrative solution.
 
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ArmChairGM89

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I’m just being nit picky but he is just tracking data and not creating a data model. A data model would be if he was using an application like Python, Knime, etc. to create a predictive model based on at minimum thousands of rows of data. You need a ton of data because you essentially cut the data into portions (commonly 2 or 4) where some go through algorithms to create the model and other data set is used to test the data model for accuracy. Didn’t try to get to nerdy and oddly enough I don’t follow hockey analytics I just work in a heavy analytics industry.
I know the difference, thank you.
 

Christien

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Skip to about 21:15 because everything before that is pretty much talking about Byfield, but after that Brock Otten talks a lot about the OHL guys we could possibly draft this year Rossi, Perfetti, and Drysdale. He believes this year's OHL draft class will be the best class since 2003. Says Rossi really improved his skating this year. Loves Drysdale, thinks he's the best defenceman to come out of the OHL in many years, but understands why people would choose Sanderson over Drysdale. Thinks Drysdale would be a great fit with Seider on a pairing and an ideal selection for us.

 
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Red Stanley

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Skip to about 21:15 because everything before that is pretty much talking about Byfield, but after that Brock Otten talks a lot about the OHL guys we could possibly draft this year Rossi, Perfetti, and Drysdale. He believes this year's OHL draft class will be the best class since 2003. Says Rossi really improved his skating this year. Loves Drysdale, thinks he's the best defenceman to come out of the OHL in many years, but understands why people would choose Sanderson over Drysdale. Thinks Drysdale would be a great fit with Seider on a pairing and an ideal selection for us.


It just reinforces what I've been hearing about this draft for a while, which is that there are a lot of (good) options for where we're picking. For me the only sure-fire prospect is Laf. Everyone else has question marks and mileage may vary depending on whom you ask. I'm trusting SY to acquire a valuable asset with our first pick.
 

Kronwalled55

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Skip to about 21:15 because everything before that is pretty much talking about Byfield, but after that Brock Otten talks a lot about the OHL guys we could possibly draft this year Rossi, Perfetti, and Drysdale. He believes this year's OHL draft class will be the best class since 2003. Says Rossi really improved his skating this year. Loves Drysdale, thinks he's the best defenceman to come out of the OHL in many years, but understands why people would choose Sanderson over Drysdale. Thinks Drysdale would be a great fit with Seider on a pairing and an ideal selection for us.



Love it. Stuff like this is why I'm in favor of drafting Drysdale with our pick. We have a lot of woes on our team, but I think shoring up our defense (and goaltending!) will do wonders.

I do believe our offense is better than what we think. I can't tell you how many games where our forward core was able to compete neck-and-neck with the opposition shift to shift, but immediately lost it once falling behind. That's also bad coaching too.
 
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Martinez

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Oct 10, 2015
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Skip to about 21:15 because everything before that is pretty much talking about Byfield, but after that Brock Otten talks a lot about the OHL guys we could possibly draft this year Rossi, Perfetti, and Drysdale. He believes this year's OHL draft class will be the best class since 2003. Says Rossi really improved his skating this year. Loves Drysdale, thinks he's the best defenceman to come out of the OHL in many years, but understands why people would choose Sanderson over Drysdale. Thinks Drysdale would be a great fit with Seider on a pairing and an ideal selection for us.


Didn’t listen yet but I do love the idea of a Seider drysdale pairing. Their play styles complement each other so well
 

Christien

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Didn’t listen yet but I do love the idea of a Seider drysdale pairing. Their play styles complement each other so well
Keith-Seabrook vibes

If we take Drysdale, we'll be lucky if he ends up anywhere near the player Keith was. He does somewhat remind me of him though, and I think Brock made that comparison as well in the podcast.

Anybody remember seeing Seider play on the left side in GR? I remember he played some with Lindstrom, but don't know if it was Lindstrom or Seider playing left.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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Didn’t listen yet but I do love the idea of a Seider drysdale pairing. Their play styles complement each other so well

Really unusual for two right-handed guys to be paired together. I seriously doubt it would happen. Even in St. Louis and Winnipeg where they did try it they eventually went against this strategy because the right-handed guys have never done it until it happens right in the NHL.

Keith-Seabrook vibes

If we take Drysdale, we'll be lucky if he ends up anywhere near the player Keith was. He does somewhat remind me of him though, and I think Brock made that comparison as well in the podcast.

Anybody remember seeing Seider play on the left side in GR? I remember he played some with Lindstrom, but don't know if it was Lindstrom or Seider playing left.

He wasn't great on it because his biggest area of weakness is his back-hand and it forces him on it a lot. Now he didn't look nearly as bad as Hronek on the left, but he was down a level. They shouldn't put Hronek on the left again, that was really ugly.

You can do this in a pinch, but I really think you're better off avoiding it. A lot of left guys that play the right grew up doing it their whole lives, that just isn't the case with the right-handed guys and you're asking a lot of them to make this switch.

If we draft Drysdale that is great you have your two workhorse guys on the right find lefty compliments and move forward, trade Hronek eventually when both Seider and Drysdale are ready for a big piece up front or a pretty sure young thing in net. I would be surprised if they draft Drysdale over Sanderson based on what Yzerman has usually liked in a D-man to be honest.
 
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Henkka

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2nd game today.

German first 2 lines. Talent a bit split.

LW Nijenhuis - C Stützle - RW Peterka
LD - Zimmermann - RD Pasanen

LW Reisnecker - C Kinder - RW Reichel
LD Glötzl - RD Flade

Reichel has scored twice.

Interesting this 16-year old #14 Canonica at Swiss team. 1st line center., 1+2 yesterday, in Swiss' 8-4 win.

Really young for the 2021 draft. Could be something on this guy.

Lorenzo Canonica at eliteprospects.com
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe

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Feb 29, 2020
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2nd game today.

German first 2 lines. Talent a bit split.

LW Nijenhuis - C Stützle - RW Peterka
LD - Zimmermann - RD Pasanen

LW Reisnecker - C Kinder - RW Reichel
LD Glötzl - RD Flade

Reichel has scored twice.

Interesting this 16-year old #14 Canonica at Swiss team. 1st line center., 1+2 yesterday, in Swiss' 8-4 win.

Really young for the 2021 draft. Could be something on this guy.

Lorenzo Canonica at eliteprospects.com

I hate to think of it, but Ottawa has the 3rd, 5th, and 21st overall picks.
They can get Stutzle, Rossi and Peterka, crapping on my hopes that Detroit ends up with their own German 5 one day. (Rossi is Austrian. They speak German, so he kinda counts?)
 
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Henkka

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Reichel doesn't look bad at all. On our pick range.

And I love these German defencemen. Everybody is at least 6'4.

But this kid Canonica from Switzerland is the next hyped guy I could predict for. 2021 draftee.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
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Reichel doesn't look bad at all. On our pick range.

And I love these German defencemen. Everybody is at least 6'4.

But this kid Canonica from Switzerland is the next hyped guy I could predict for. 2021 draftee.

I really like Reichel as well. I think he's the kind of guy that can be a C/W that gets 40-50 points a year and play solid defensively. Good possession numbers, good all around hockey smarts, and some of his reports talk about how many of his shots are high danger chances. If he's still there at 32 I'd take him.

Also that Canonica kid looks pretty talented as well in the first game. His rights are with Shawnigan next year so we'll see how he does in the Q.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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I hate to think of it, but Ottawa has the 3rd, 5th, and 21st overall picks.
They can get Stutzle, Rossi and Peterka, crapping on my hopes that Detroit ends up with their own German 5 one day. (Rossi is Austrian. They speak German, so he kinda counts?)

We can just trade for them in a few years when Ottawa doesn’t wanna pay them.
 

Bench

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We can just trade for them in a few years when Ottawa doesn’t wanna pay them.

Boy, that's funny but also truth. How depressing as a Senators fan knowing you'll have this influx of talent on the way but zero confidence your ownership will pay to keep them.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,242
14,747
Boy, that's funny but also truth. How depressing as a Senators fan knowing you'll have this influx of talent on the way but zero confidence your ownership will pay to keep them.

Sucks they have to put up with that owner, I feel for them.
 
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