NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - Part VII

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armani

High Jacques
Apr 8, 2005
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However they want to frame it, Play-ins are nothing more than a best of 5 playoff series for a chance at round of 16. Winner proceeds to the next round, loser's season is done. As I said a many posts ago, it benefits a team like Montreal, for example, who is in a win-win situation. Win and you proceed to the next round. Lose and you still retain your pick based on points%. For Pittsburgh, it means they will have to play an extra round AND win to qualify to the next round - they get no benefit for having the 7th best record. There is some interesting "spitballing" from the Bob Father to mitigate some of what's being debated in the forum thread with selfish takes from all HFers lol:



The silver lining is we will likely have these questions resolved sooner rather than later:

 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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Well, one thing I would bet on....the older teams in the play-in are the ones likely to lose their series. Younger legs will be at an advantage in the play-in and first round, so count that as the deciding factor when making predictions.

I'm too lazy to look up who is older between Montreal and Pittsburgh...but my gut says the Pens. If those f***ing Penguins win the lotto...........
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
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Pittsburgh's first belongs to Minnesota.

If Pittsburgh does not make the playoffs, they have the option to give Minnesota their 2021 1st instead.

The NHL will decide on how trade conditions will be revised or upheld. If Pittsburgh loses a play in series, and picks top 15, I would imagine that would be the same to the NHL as if the regular season went on as normal, and Pittsburgh missed the playoffs. Playoff protected really is another way of saying, top 15 protected.
 

Senscore

Let's keep it cold
Nov 19, 2012
19,862
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If Pittsburgh does not make the playoffs, they have the option to give Minnesota their 2021 1st instead.

The NHL will decide on how trade conditions will be revised or upheld. If Pittsburgh loses a play in series, and picks top 15, I would imagine that would be the same to the NHL as if the regular season went on as normal, and Pittsburgh missed the playoffs. Playoff protected really is another way of saying, top 15 protected.

Ah I figured there was a catch. Too many people bringing up the Penguins.
 

Karl Eriksson

Boring!
Apr 12, 2007
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So teams like Montreal agreed to have a shot at the cup if they also got a shot at 1OA? How perverse.

7 team lotto for 1st only. Clean and simple.
 
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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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Make it simple.
1st 7 spots go to teams who are already eliminated in a weighted lottery.

The next 8 losers of the playin round are seeded by season point %. (They already use this system for eliminated teams in 1st two rounds of regular playoffs)

Final 16 spots determined as they always have been.

Bad teams like Montreal and Chicago don't get a shot at #1, but they can't pick worse than 8 & 9, while still getting a chance to compete for the cup. Good teams that get upset don't get a shot at #1, but can't pick worse than 15.
 

Laphroaig

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Aug 26, 2011
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There seems to be a consensus here that only the bottom seven teams should have a crack at the #1 pick but I have to believe that if the Senators had finished with the eighth worse record in the league many of the posters here would be outraged that they had zero chance of moving up in the draft.

I simply don't believe that the virus should improve the Senators draft prospects. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
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There seems to be a consensus here that only the bottom seven teams should have a crack at the #1 pick but I have to believe that if the Senators had finished with the eighth worse record in the league many of the posters here would be outraged that they had zero chance of moving up in the draft.

I simply don't believe that the virus should improve the Senators draft prospects. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this.

But have a shot at the playoffs by winning 3 of 5 games.
 

Laphroaig

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Aug 26, 2011
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But have a shot at the playoffs by winning 3 of 5 games.
That's true but losing that three game series costs them a shot at Lafreniere without the advantage of all the gate revenue a team would normally receive at this time of year. I know that if it was the Sens with the eighth worse record I'd prefer to keep the pick and forego the play in. It's not like the eighth worse team is going to win the Cup.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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That's true but losing that three game series costs them a shot at Lafreniere without the advantage of all the gate revenue a team would normally receive at this time of year. I know that if it was the Sens with the eighth worse record I'd prefer to keep the pick and forego the play in. It's not like the eighth worse team is going to win the Cup.

They are exchanging a 6% chance of drafting Lafreniere for inclusion in the playoffs. The truth is the aren't likely to win a round just as they aren't likely to draft Lafreniere.

Having said that, there needs to be an opportunity cost to them getting a shot at the playoffs because if not you can make a strong case that Buffalo and NJ are getting shafted since they both had a higher best case if the reg season continued (if all three teams ran the board to finish the season the Habs woul be behind both).

Idk what would be the fairest way of doing this but the Habs getting the best of both worlds certainly is not it. Maybe cut their odds and all the other play in spots in the lottery in half and redistribute it among the 7 non playoff teams?
 

Masked

(Super/star)
Apr 16, 2017
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There seems to be a consensus here that only the bottom seven teams should have a crack at the #1 pick but I have to believe that if the Senators had finished with the eighth worse record in the league many of the posters here would be outraged that they had zero chance of moving up in the draft.

They'd also have zero chance of moving down in the draft. And if you're at 8th, there's a better chance of that happening than moving up.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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There seems to be a consensus here that only the bottom seven teams should have a crack at the #1 pick but I have to believe that if the Senators had finished with the eighth worse record in the league many of the posters here would be outraged that they had zero chance of moving up in the draft.

I simply don't believe that the virus should improve the Senators draft prospects. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this.
its not about fair
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,145
30,369
There seems to be a consensus here that only the bottom seven teams should have a crack at the #1 pick but I have to believe that if the Senators had finished with the eighth worse record in the league many of the posters here would be outraged that they had zero chance of moving up in the draft.

I simply don't believe that the virus should improve the Senators draft prospects. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this.

I simply don't believe that the virus should improve any teams playoff chances. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this... Oh wait, they already did that.

There needs to be an opportunity cost for teams like the Hawks and Mtl if they are going to be given a 5 game series to move on to the final 16, wiping out 70 games that said they don't belong, when teams like NJ and Buf had virtually identical records (and the potential to finish higher than the Habs best case scenario).

No solution will be perfect, but we can certainly do better than what has been proposed so far...

The team with the 8th best record in the league potentially could end up in the lottery and win 1st OA while the 24th ranked team plays in the final 16. That doesn't make any sense.
 

IranCondraAffair

Registered User
Mar 10, 2006
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I simply don't believe that the virus should improve any teams playoff chances. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this... Oh wait, they already did that.

There needs to be an opportunity cost for teams like the Hawks and Mtl if they are going to be given a 5 game series to move on to the final 16, wiping out 70 games that said they don't belong, when teams like NJ and Buf had virtually identical records (and the potential to finish higher than the Habs best case scenario).

No solution will be perfect, but we can certainly do better than what has been proposed so far...

The team with the 8th best record in the league potentially could end up in the lottery and win 1st OA while the 24th ranked team plays in the final 16. That doesn't make any sense.
Not that they will ever go with the fairest option, but I always thought the fairest thing we should be doing is making 8-15 ranked accounting to points % after the play-in and doing a second lottery.
Pittsburgh loses? They're 15th since they had the most regular season points.

First lottery immediately for teams 1-7, ranked by points %. Odds from 8-15 redistributed to 1-7. No limit on moving up.
Second lottery after play-in, ranked by points %. Odds for 8-15 distributed like they did for 1-7. No limit on moving up.

If Pittsburgh loses, they move up 7-8 spots in the draft and potentially another 7 as well. Going from the mid-20s to #8 is a big deal.
 

Laphroaig

Registered User
Aug 26, 2011
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its not about fair
So true. I'm sure the fans of the teams that are currently between 17th and 24th place perceive the five game series as the completion of the regular season while the fans of the bottom 7 teams view the play in as part of the playoffs. I doubt that it has anything to do with self interest though.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,829
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You know, there is one scenario where Ottawa could be screwed worse. Now, I'm not suggesting this will happen, or that anyone in the league has brought it up, but I can see this proposal getting the nod from enough teams to pass:

1 - all first round draft picks traded this year deferred to next season (basically, we get the 1st round picks of the Isles and Sharks in 2021 instead of this year)
2 - all teams placed in a weighted lotto for the entire first round this year, weighted based on team finishes the last 3 seasons

This makes for quite a tv spectacle. Instead of a lotto for the first 3 picks, it's the entire first round order (the rest of the draft goes by current reverse standings). Plus, every team gets to make a selection in the first round, so you have fans from all 31 markets wanting to see what pick they get. This also clears up a handful of those conditional trades that teams have made, because no condition written several months ago could possibly take into account the shortened season and whatever token playoffs the NHL is trying to push. It sucks for us (and others) because 2021 isn't nearly as strong as 2020, and there's little chance SJ is that bad next year. But too many other teams would benefit.
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
You know, there is one scenario where Ottawa could be screwed worse. Now, I'm not suggesting this will happen, or that anyone in the league has brought it up, but I can see this proposal getting the nod from enough teams to pass:

1 - all first round draft picks traded this year deferred to next season (basically, we get the 1st round picks of the Isles and Sharks in 2021 instead of this year)
2 - all teams placed in a weighted lotto for the entire first round this year, weighted based on team finishes the last 3 seasons

This makes for quite a tv spectacle. Instead of a lotto for the first 3 picks, it's the entire first round order (the rest of the draft goes by current reverse standings). Plus, every team gets to make a selection in the first round, so you have fans from all 31 markets wanting to see what pick they get. This also clears up a handful of those conditional trades that teams have made, because no condition written several months ago could possibly take into account the shortened season and whatever token playoffs the NHL is trying to push. It sucks for us (and others) because 2021 isn't nearly as strong as 2020, and there's little chance SJ is that bad next year. But too many other teams would benefit.
Our pick has already been deferred a year from SJ ,that has to count for something doesnt it??
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,480
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East Coast
So true. I'm sure the fans of the teams that are currently between 17th and 24th place perceive the five game series as the completion of the regular season while the fans of the bottom 7 teams view the play in as part of the playoffs. I doubt that it has anything to do with self interest though.
The teams between 17th and 24th should absolutely be considering this the playoffs...if they lose the series they are out, the definition of a playoff series.

If they consider a 5 game playoff series as a way to substitute a 70 game season, good on them, but they are simple if that’s the case.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,480
23,062
East Coast
You know, there is one scenario where Ottawa could be screwed worse. Now, I'm not suggesting this will happen, or that anyone in the league has brought it up, but I can see this proposal getting the nod from enough teams to pass:

1 - all first round draft picks traded this year deferred to next season (basically, we get the 1st round picks of the Isles and Sharks in 2021 instead of this year)
2 - all teams placed in a weighted lotto for the entire first round this year, weighted based on team finishes the last 3 seasons

This makes for quite a tv spectacle. Instead of a lotto for the first 3 picks, it's the entire first round order (the rest of the draft goes by current reverse standings). Plus, every team gets to make a selection in the first round, so you have fans from all 31 markets wanting to see what pick they get. This also clears up a handful of those conditional trades that teams have made, because no condition written several months ago could possibly take into account the shortened season and whatever token playoffs the NHL is trying to push. It sucks for us (and others) because 2021 isn't nearly as strong as 2020, and there's little chance SJ is that bad next year. But too many other teams would benefit.
Zero % chance of any of this happening, thankfully. Sharks pick was traded in 2018, regardless.
 

Gil Gunderson

Registered User
May 2, 2007
30,545
15,826
Ottawa, ON
There seems to be a consensus here that only the bottom seven teams should have a crack at the #1 pick but I have to believe that if the Senators had finished with the eighth worse record in the league many of the posters here would be outraged that they had zero chance of moving up in the draft.

I simply don't believe that the virus should improve the Senators draft prospects. I'd be shocked if any format is approved that results in this.
Better that than improving the odds of a top-10 team to get #1 overall.

At least it still does what the draft is supposed to and gives the worst teams a better shot while the other could do just the opposite of that.
 
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