WJC: 2020 IIHF WM U20 D1B in Kiev, Ukraine (12.12-18.2019)

[Gianpaolo]

The entire Italian coaching staff should be fired after this tournament. They are just all overwhelmed. And no, this fail is not because Italy has no hockey players or because those players had no enough ice time or whatever.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I understand you are upset but let's face it, even when it comes to players, Estonia does have the better ones. So even if coaches didn't do the perfect job, the problems with Italian hockey really lie elsewhere. Sure this is Estonian golden generation and it's very likely Italy will be going up and Estonia will be going down next year but at this particular championship, I think Estonians won this fair and square.

 

[Gianpaolo]

My issue with the Italian coaching staff is that they were not able to make the team ready from a mental point of view. They cannot just rely on Davide Fadani in the net and hope he makes the difference in every game. I heard for a very long time that Italian prospects are not getting enough ice time on senior level and that is why they do not make improvements. Looking at this year's Austrian team, they have the same problem. Jakob Wetzelsberger is the only one player who appeared on some EBEL games. So why got Austria promoted to the Top Division and Italy is going to be relegated to D2?

 

[kabidjan18]

I think there are a couple differences. Firstly, as I understand it, the Italian players are having a difficult time getting ice time in the AlpsHL, which is a bit of a different phenomena from having difficulty getting playing time in the EBEL. Secondly, basically all our top players are either exports or Salzburgers.

You all lost a great kid in Stefan Spinell last year. Just like I said, he's on track for about 10 points in 30 games in the NLB. Just a outstanding prospect for a country like Italy. Without him and Simon Berger I think it was just going to be a difficult year.

 

[SoundAndFury]

How many players fit to play in the EBEL does Italy have at senior level, not counting Canadians? 10? So it's kinda hard to expect many U20 guys will be there. More importantly, Italian U18s are fighting for survival at D1B as well so it isn't that age 17-19 that ruins them. Way before they could contend for an AlpsHL roster spot those guys aren't very good. I think that's really Italy's problem. And in recent years, it isn't getting any better. Nothing after 2015 came even close to that team that finished above Austria in WJC.

The country has to produce ~5 solid pro players per year to feel safe about the survival in D1B, Italy just isn't reaching those numbers at the moment. It isn't alone, Estonia and Ukraine will join the club after '00 guys become too old but Italy definitely has no business comparing themselves to Austria at the moment.

 

[Gianpaolo]

I think there are a couple differences. Firstly, as I understand it, the Italian players are having a difficult time getting ice time in the AlpsHL, which is a bit of a different phenomena from having difficulty getting playing time in the EBEL. Secondly, basically all our top players are either exports or Salzburgers.

There are few import players allowed in the Alps Hockey League and with 7 teams from Italy in the league and 9 from Austria (including the farm teams of Vienna, Linz and Salzburg), no young prospect should not get enough ice time there. So the big difference between Italy and Austria are IMO the structures like the Okagan hockey or Red Bulls Academy and the chance to play hockey at professional level. Until the Italian hockey clubs and federation do not see that young players need some promising perspective for the future (including combining school and hockey), they will mostly stop playing with age 18 and go to a university.

 

[Gianpaolo]

How many players fit to play in the EBEL does Italy have at senior level, not counting Canadians? 10? So it's kinda hard to expect many U20 guys will be there.

I do not expect many U20 from any countries getting much ice time in the EBEL. That's is an entertainment league with a lot of imports, so only big talents have a chance. Regarding Italian players of any age who could play in the EBEL: if you mean in any role even like fourth line forward or no. 7 defenseman or depth goaltender, then I think we have much more than only 10.

 

[kabidjan18]

There are few import players allowed in the Alps Hockey League and with 7 teams from Italy in the league and 9 from Austria (including the farm teams of Vienna, Linz and Salzburg), no young prospect should not get enough ice time. So the big difference between Italy and Austria are IMO the structures like the Okagan hockey or Red Bulls Academy and the chance to play hockey at professional level. Until the Italian hockey clubs and federation do not see that young players need some promising perspective for the future (including combining school and hockey), they will mostly stop playing with age 18 and go to a university.

Hmmm, there's some truth and also some deviation in this statement. Red Bull Juniors has 8 imports and then half the team is German. They face as much and maybe more internal competition as they would in any other Alps team. And players like Benjamin Lanzinger and Benedikt Wohlfahrt play with the Zell am See side, which sin't a farmteam, just a player loan. However, teams like KA2 and VCS do provide players with easier access to playing time. Though, again, the championship really did not turn on Antal, or Ploner, or Pallierer, all fourth liners.

However, we don't have an Austria U20 team in the Alps league because clubs have their own farmteams. Italy could consider an Italy U20 or maybe U23 farmteam in the Alps League. That would be helpful.

 

[kabidjan18]

Hungary's golden generation gets the promoted, good job Hungary.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Sorry but how is this even close to Hungarian golden generation compared to that of Gallo, Erdely, Sebok, Stipzitz, Gerat, etc?

Sure they have achieved a great result as a team but again, this group of guys just doesn't seem anything special.

 

[Belizarius]

Sad result for France who pushed really hard and dominated the game after the 0-3. So many chances, and the same finishing problems year after year...

 

[SoundAndFury]

So let's just hope Hungary doesn't do Italy a solid and lose in regulation.

Fadani really worked his ass off against Ukraine yesterday to keep Italy's hopes alive.

Those streams from Ukraine though.. Man do they ever have a room for improvement.

 

[tobu]

4 of Hungary's Ds are playing in the Slovak league for MAC Budapest. Although being far from the top leagues, I'd rank it higher than the French league. So even if the Hungarian roster was mostly "unkown" to non Hungarians, the core plays in some decent leagues: Slovak Top tier, NAHL, Swiss Top Tier, German Top Tier. I am not at all surprised at their results.

 

[SoundAndFury]

4 of Hungary's Ds are playing in the Slovak league for MAC Budapest. Although being far from the top leagues, I'd rank it higher than the French league. So even if the Hungarian roster was mostly "unkown" to non Hungarians, the core plays in some decent leagues: Slovak Top tier, NAHL, Swiss Top Tier, German Top Tier. I am not at all surprised at their results.

Again, those guys didn't really stand out in any other age groups. They were 4th in U18 and had Kristof Papp, Hungary's far and away best prospect there whom they are missing in this tournament.

Regarding the guys from MAC, they have 9 games in the Slovak league combined this year. So playing in the Slovak league is a huge exaggeration, they just belong to a Hungarian team that plays in one. Furthermore, "Slovak league" pairing Csollak - Doczi are team's worst -2 and -3 on a championship-winning team through 4 games. So really, Slovak hockey doesn't factor in at all here, if anything they are at a disadvantage because if they were in some other organization they would probably be getting minutes in Erste Liga.

Swiss U20 and DNL are nothing to write home about either for guys that are 19. Italy has players there as well and is getting relegated. Every team in this championship had players from "decent leagues". Ukraine, France and Poland had guys playing in the CHL, best Hungarian forward is 4th in PPG on his NAHL team.

These guys played really well together and came out way more ready than the French for the decider. But this ain't no great Hungarian generation.

 

[Gianpaolo]

That's the end, Italy. Now they have to pay the price for all the years spent desperately seeking for players with Italian passport who were not able to make a professional career in Canada.

 

[kabidjan18]

That's the end, Italy. Now they have to pay the price for all the years spent desperately seeking for players with Italian passport who were not able to make a professional career in Canada.

...crying a river as the senior national team is in the elite division two years in a row.

 

[Gianpaolo]

Italy will be site of the 2026 Winter Olympics, but currently has just a couple of decent prospects who could become able to play at that level. so who cares about two consecutive years in the Top Division?

 

[kabidjan18]

Italy will be site of the 2026 Winter Olympics, but currently has just a couple of decent prospects who could become able to play at that level. so who cares about two consecutive years in the Top Division?

You'll have an awesome team then. At least still Miceli and maybe also Bardaro and Petan. And other names we don't even know yet but who are making their way through the AHL or the CHL right now and will be primed to play by then.