Red Sox/MLB 2020 Hot Stove VII - The Mookie dilemma: Red Sox face franchise-changing decision

[Fenway]

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[CDJ]

Tomase suggested betts and price to the dodgers for absolutely nothing and I just hope on the off chance he reads this that he knows I want him to throw himself into the Charles

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Tomase suggested betts and price to the dodgers for absolutely nothing and I just hope on the off chance he reads this that he knows I want him to throw himself into the Charles

Tomase. Another shit media member in Boston. Slob. Hate him and his garbage takes.

 

[N o o d l e s]

Tomase suggested betts and price to the dodgers for absolutely nothing and I just hope on the off chance he reads this that he knows I want him to throw himself into the Charles

There’s many reasons for him to be thrown in the Charles

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

Tomase suggested betts and price to the dodgers for absolutely nothing and I just hope on the off chance he reads this that he knows I want him to throw himself into the Charles

Well, he really didn't. He mentioned a package built around Gonsolin, that's hardly nothing. Not someone we would be happy as the centerpiece of such a deal, but it's obviously not entirely unrealistic that a package of Betts and Price wouldn't return a huge haul if the Dodgers were also taking the full salaries and wouldn't send us their own salary dumps in return.

The point of all that is: Why would we want to get rid of so much salary? What is the point of freeing up so much money and cap room if anyone you pay from the market will be worse than Price and especially Betts?
The only reason why the Sox would make such a trade is a) avoiding the harsh penalties by being over the cap and b) getting value back by trading Betts.

That's why Tomase's idea will not come to fruition. The Dodgers will either receive some money or we're gonna take on another bad contract. Goal is to just stay under the cap and maximize the value of prospects. If they were to trade JBJ, they could take on Pollock (salary dump) to achieve that.

 

[Fenway]

 

[DKH]

Betts
Devers
Bogearts
Martinez
Benintendi
Chavis/Dalbec
Vazquez
JBJ
2B

 

[KrejciMVP]

I"d add Josh Donaldson to that lineup, he could make a comeback at Fenway

 

[CDJ]

It’s a shame they don’t have $25 million to spend on one player

 

[DKH]

It’s a shame they don’t have $25 million to spend on one player

I do think the Dodgers are going to come at them hard

To me if they gave up Ruiz & Verdugo it’s a deal

here is what I do if Dodgers

I offer Ruiz, Goselin, and Pollock and I take both Price & Betts

I personally first offer Betts 10/340 with a buyout after 4 and 7

if he says no I ask for
Verdugo Ruiz Goslin and take Pollock for Betts Price JBJ

JBJ on 1 year replaces Pollock and helps Betts transition

 

[CDJ]

I do think the Dodgers are going to come at them hard

To me if they gave up Ruiz & Verdugo it’s a deal

here is what I do if Dodgers

I offer Ruiz, Goselin, and Pollock and I take both Price & Betts

I personally first offer Betts 10/340 with a buyout after 4 and 7

if he says no I ask for
Verdugo Ruiz Goslin and take Pollock for Betts Price JBJ

JBJ on 1 year replaces Pollock and helps Betts transition

I’d do both, Dodgers should do the first one if they really want to win a WS

 

[John Price]

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

What is everyone thinking for Cora? 50 game suspension is my prediction. This is going to be severe. They will want to make an example of this to other teams to knock off the BS.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

This was always coming when the Astros got busted due to the Cora connections. Every team tries to steal signs to some degree so I doubt we are 100% innocent but likely no worse than the rest of the league nor quite on the Astros level. I think its also to save face for them not stripping the Astros of their WS if they punish us for some of the same stuff.


I think this should signal the end of the Cora era *edit* I didn't mean that I meant end of the Cora honeymoon not era. He correctly got a pass on any bad calls made last year but we've seen managers do great at first and then go downhill from there. Feels like that is what will happen.

 

[Smitty93]

What is everyone thinking for Cora? 50 game suspension is my prediction. This is going to be severe. They will want to make an example of this to other teams to knock off the BS.

Yeah, doesn't help him that he's connected to the 2017 Astros and 2018 Red Sox. I thought he'd get half of whatever Hinch gets, but he'll probably get the same, if not more now.

It certainly doesn't help that the Red Sox were fined in 2017 for what they did against the Yankees, and then warned that there would be more serious sanctions if they violated the technology rules again.

I could see anything from 50 games to a year.

I have to admit, I didn't realize it was illegal to watch replay during the game. I figured players did that all the time to scout their previous ABs.

 

[yazmybaby]

I do think the Dodgers are going to come at them hard

To me if they gave up Ruiz & Verdugo it’s a deal

here is what I do if Dodgers

I offer Ruiz, Goselin, and Pollock and I take both Price & Betts

I personally first offer Betts 10/340 with a buyout after 4 and 7

if he says no I ask for
Verdugo Ruiz Goslin and take Pollock for Betts Price JBJ

JBJ on 1 year replaces Pollock and helps Betts transition

I would like this to happen before Spring Training.
I would rather take:
option 1
Ruiz, Jeter Downs, Gonsolin and Pollack or
option 2
Seager - move him to 2B, can backup as a SS and 3b if needed
Vargas - I really like this kid, is only 20 yrs old and will play at AA this year. He had a .380 OBP and drove in 77 runs last year and hit 38 doubles.
Cartaya - another catcher in the Dodgers system that has a better arm than Ruiz, but the bat may not be as good. He is only 18 yrs old, so he is more of a project and likely 4-5 years away, whereas Ruiz could play at some point next year.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

...I have to admit, I didn't realize it was illegal to watch replay during the game. I figured players did that all the time to scout their previous ABs.

Agreed. It's SOP in the NFL.

 

[LSCII]

Either you allow sign stealing or you don't. To me, the how is irrelevant. This is just complete nonsense and I felt the same way when it was only the Astros. Delineating between stealing a sign with a person in the stands or with an electronic device is literally splitting hairs and a waste of time.

 

[McGarnagle]

We're going to suck next year anyway, so if Cora gets suspended 81 games, does it really matter?

I just hope Manfred doesn't bop the whole organization and take away international signing or draft slot bonus money or whatever, that would have an actual long term effect. And if we get fined a ton of money, Henry can cry poor and use it as an excuse to trade Betts.

 

[McGarnagle]

Either you allow sign stealing or you don't. To me, the how is irrelevant. This is just complete nonsense and I felt the same way when it was only the Astros. Delineating between stealing a sign with a person in the stands or with an electronic device is literally splitting hairs and a waste of time.

Exactly.

I'm not at all bothered or offended by this. Everyone's looking for a competitive advantage some way or another, and sign stealing has been done since the 1800s. I'm more upset with how brazenly sloppy Houston was about it that it is going to bring down multiple organizations.

 

[LSCII]

Exactly.

I'm not at all bothered or offended by this. Everyone's looking for a competitive advantage some way or another, and sign stealing has been done since the 1800s. I'm more upset with how brazenly sloppy Houston was about it that it is going to bring down multiple organizations.

See, I don't blame Houston. They did what a slew of other teams have done and are doing. It's not the teams doing the stealing. It's the baseball purists clinging to this outdated view of life. The "they used to steal signs the old fashioned way" crowd. The 1927 Yankees didn't steal signs with cell phones only because they had yet to be invented. Forcing teams to not employ advancements in technology just because that's how it's always been done is literally moronic.

Either ban sign stealing outright or allow teams to do so in whatever fashion they can come up with.

 

[Smitty93]

Either you allow sign stealing or you don't. To me, the how is irrelevant. This is just complete nonsense and I felt the same way when it was only the Astros. Delineating between stealing a sign with a person in the stands or with an electronic device is literally splitting hairs and a waste of time.

Feels a little self-serving as a Red Sox and Patriots fan, but I agree with your sentiment.

I'm generally in favor of players/teams being able to use whatever tools are at their disposal. Let players take PEDs at their own risk, let college athletes make money off their likeness, basically deregulate sports.

I care about sports from an entertainment perspective, so I'm for anything that will improve that. I get the point of fair play and integrity of the game, but, personally, things like that don't really affect my enjoyment as a spectator. I want to see my teams win, but if I can't do that, at least make losing as entertaining as possible. It's the old, I'd rather lose 6-5 than 2-1.

 

[LSCII]

Feels a little self-serving as a Red Sox and Patriots fan, but I agree with your sentiment.

I'm generally in favor of players/teams being able to use whatever tools are at their disposal. Let players take PEDs at their own risk, let college athletes make money off their likeness, basically deregulate sports.

I care about sports from an entertainment perspective, so I'm for anything that will improve that. I get the point of fair play and integrity of the game, but, personally, things like that don't really affect my enjoyment as a spectator. I want to see my teams win, but if I can't do that, at least make losing as entertaining as possible. It's the old, I'd rather lose 6-5 than 2-1.

This is exactly right. It's not something to be taken seriously. It's purely entertainment and distraction for me. And when I'm watching, I want to see players do things that 99.999% of the rest of the populations cannot.

And for the record, I said the same exact thing about sign stealing when it was all coming out about just the Astros. It's dumb to say you can steal signs, but then regulate how you can go about doing that. It's an either or thing to me, no rules on how needed.

 

[McGarnagle]

I'm more bothered by Houston's obvious cheating on the pitching mound. Like they're not all doctoring the ball to dramatically increase spin rates...

My paranoid side thinks that they let the sign stealing thing leak because 1. They can pin it all on Cora and avoid major repercussions since everybody does it, and 2. It draws league attention away from cracking down on pitching infractions.

If we were stealing signs all of 2018, why did we stop and why did everyone but Devers and Bogey take a step back in 2019?

 

[Say Hey Kid]

This is exactly right. It's not something to be taken seriously. It's purely entertainment and distraction for me. And when I'm watching, I want to see players do things that 99.999% of the rest of the populations cannot.

And for the record, I said the same exact thing about sign stealing when it was all coming out about just the Astros. It's dumb to say you can steal signs, but then regulate how you can go about doing that. It's an either or thing to me, no rules on how needed.

Agreed. The Pats never did anything that actually helped them win. Bill admitted to Kraft that watching practices doesn't really help, watching film does, which is what made Kraft even madder.

Stealing signs is part of the game. The pitcher with the highest ERA+ ever, Mariano, used one pitch. Just because you know it's coming doesn't mean you can hit it. People get their "facts" from movies and not from playing and coaching. When I see thread titles in the sports forums that the Red Sox cheated their way to World Series (in 2018) I just laugh. As if their success is based solely on that.