2020 F1 - Part II

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Paris in Flames

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Feb 4, 2009
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Might just be them trying to protect their driver but it would explain how he went from looking like Lewis Hamilton to...well...looking like Lance Stroll.

Did Lance build something on an ancient burial ground two months ago? Dude is cursed.
 

umma gumma

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
3,623
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Not very good driver has trouble controlling fast racing car, story at 11.

STATISTICS

Wins:0 (0%)
Podiums:2 (1.9%)
Pole positions:0 (0%)
Championships:0 (0%)
Best result:3rd
Best grid position:6th (1994 Belgian Grand Prix)
Seasons:8
Events:107
Starts:107
Points:17 (0.2 points per race avg)
Laps raced:3987
Laps led:0 ) (0%)
Fastest laps:0 (0%)
Retirements:58 (54.2%)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This is Gerhard Bergers description of his first days at Benetton in 1996, from his book "Zielgerade". (pardon the tranlsation)

"You arrive at your new team like in a new office, shaking hands, wlooking around, let them show you all, get an initial feeling: so then thats the flavour at Benetton.
They are great in the big things, clearly, otherwise they wouldn't have been world champion twice. They are not so great in, for instance, carpets. The floor is rather felts, and the whole room is smelling for cigarettes and everyone is putting down his coffee cup on the massage table.

[...]

But before it came to the first massage in the Benetton motor home, I already threw away the world championship car. The car had simply gone off - and away it was - faster than I could watch. It was at the first test in Estoril and the crash was that terrible, that we had three days delay, because they had to send the car to England.
All laughed and patted me on the shoulder "hey, your first Benetton crash" as if it was a good omen. It rained when the repaired car came back, we waited but then decided to go out in the rain just to get a bit more familiar with the car.
In the third lap it went off with the backside head-on into the armcos. Again scrap.
The laugh from the first crash was a thinner grin now. My team mate Alesi waved goodbye as often as me but had always a free run-off area while spinning, so he didn't demolish anything.
The next test was in Barcelona. I started the thing very calm and analytical. Like at the first Estoril day I had no bad feeling with the car. There was just a full second missing, so I had to close up on the limit.
Next crash.
Of course, this one was nothing but embarrassing, and I could read a certain desire for Schumacher in the faces of the engineers and the mechanics.
The thought exchange with my new boss wasn't fruitful too. Flavio Briatore swept away all issues with terrific superficiality. He may talked about technique, but while he talked you had the suspicion he couldn't distinguish between a steering wheel and a car wheel. He has absolutely nothing of racing in his blood, he simply lives for marketing, preferably his own.

[...]

The most solid component was the Renault engine at the height of its maturity. The performance of the frenchmen was a modern translation of the Honda leadership in the previous generation. They were not simply obsessed with power and revs, but had a very fine feeling for the driveability of the engine in the farest way. They also had a lot of sporting mind, by far exceeding
techniques and statistics of success.
In any case the engine was not the problem. To our chief engineers I said something like "I went off three times now and accept the blame, but it should be clear to you that the car has a problem and it would be nice if you could turn on your computers once more".
The mystery indeed could be encircled. On bumps while at full speed the car went "in stall", like an aircraft which abruptly loses all its aerodynamic effect. If the bump was in a fast corner the car could go into snap oversteer. This feature of the Benetton was certainly not unknown. Johnny Herbert went off a few times in 1995 and then simply didn't dare to step at this limit. And Michael Schumacher had something like a supernatural reflex for this situation. He later explained it to me: He automatically anticipated the countersteer on the bump, he had already memorized this procedure in himself.
This was the point where I couldn't stay reserved against Michael Schumacher: Someone who had the sovereign knack on this car even at the limit must have been absolutely in a class by himself."



Some pages later he said with regard to his little feud with Michael he had at that time:

"The final point of return came when I took over his car, the Benetton from the end of the 1995 season. I thought 'oh my god, he won the world championship with this car!' That simply wasn't a car in which you win a world championship, this could be managed only by someone really special. Then I knew the guy was alright and didn't hesitate to tell this everyone who wanted to hear it."
 
Last edited:

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
This is Gerhard Bergers description of his first days at Benetton in 1996, from his book "Zielgerade". (pardon the tranlsation)

"You arrive at your new team like in a new office, shaking hands, wlooking around, let them show you all, get an initial feeling: so then thats the flavour at Benetton.
They are great in the big things, clearly, otherwise they wouldn't have been world champion twice. They are not so great in, for instance, carpets. The floor is rather felts, and the whole room is smelling for cigarettes and everyone is putting down his coffee cup on the massage table.

[...]

But before it came to the first massage in the Benetton motor home, I already threw away the world championship car. The car had simply gone off - and away it was - faster than I could watch. It was at the first test in Estoril and the crash was that terrible, that we had three days delay, because they had to send the car to England.
All laughed and patted me on the shoulder "hey, your first Benetton crash" as if it was a good omen. It rained when the repaired car came back, we waited but then decided to go out in the rain just to get a bit more familiar with the car.
In the third lap it went off with the backside head-on into the armcos. Again scrap.
The laugh from the first crash was a thinner grin now. My team mate Alesi waved goodbye as often as me but had always a free run-off area while spinning, so he didn't demolish anything.
The next test was in Barcelona. I started the thing very calm and analytical. Like at the first Estoril day I had no bad feeling with the car. There was just a full second missing, so I had to close up on the limit.
Next crash.
Of course, this one was nothing but embarrassing, and I could read a certain desire for Schumacher in the faces of the engineers and the mechanics.
The thought exchange with my new boss wasn't fruitful too. Flavio Briatore swept away all issues with terrific superficiality. He may talked about technique, but while he talked you had the suspicion he couldn't distinguish between a steering wheel and a car wheel. He has absolutely nothing of racing in his blood, he simply lives for marketing, preferably his own.

[...]

The most solid component was the Renault engine at the height of its maturity. The performance of the frenchmen was a modern translation of the Honda leadership in the previous generation. They were not simply obsessed with power and revs, but had a very fine feeling for the driveability of the engine in the farest way. They also had a lot of sporting mind, by far exceeding
techniques and statistics of success.
In any case the engine was not the problem. To our chief engineers I said something like "I went off three times now and accept the blame, but it should be clear to you that the car has a problem and it would be nice if you could turn on your computers once more".
The mystery indeed could be encircled. On bumps while at full speed the car went "in stall", like an aircraft which abruptly loses all its aerodynamic effect. If the bump was in a fast corner the car could go into snap oversteer. This feature of the Benetton was certainly not unknown. Johnny Herbert went off a few times in 1995 and then simply didn't dare to step at this limit. And Michael Schumacher had something like a supernatural reflex for this situation. He later explained it to me: He automatically anticipated the countersteer on the bump, he had already memorized this procedure in himself.
This was the point where I couldn't stay reserved against Michael Schumacher: Someone who had the sovereign knack on this car even at the limit must have been absolutely in a class by himself."



Some pages later he said with regard to his little feud with Michael he had at that time:

"The final point of return came when I took over his car, the Benetton from the end of the 1995 season. I thought 'oh my god, he won the world championship with this car!' That simply wasn't a car in which you win a world championship, this could be managed only by someone really special. Then I knew the guy was alright and didn't hesitate to tell this everyone who wanted to hear it."

That's a lot of words for something that could be summarized as : Berger = Bottas.
 

umma gumma

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
3,623
2,142
That's a lot of words for something that could be summarized as : Berger = Bottas.
The point being several different drivers share the same comments and issues regarding the snap-oversteering Benetton. It was a known characteristic of those cars. They were not easy to drive.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
The point being several different drivers share the same comments and issues regarding the snap-oversteering Benetton. It was a known characteristic of those cars. They were not easy to drive.

... The best of them being the 87-97 version of Valteri Bottas.

I mean, Schumacher could do things most (and, actually almost all, and all his contemporaries) drivers couldn't do. That isn't in question. It's well established that Schumacher was superior to Hill, Frentzen, Alesi, Villeneuve, Herbert, and Berger.

It's also established that the Benetton was an illegal car, the same way last year's Ferrari was an illegal car.
 

umma gumma

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
3,623
2,142
... The best of them being the 87-97 version of Valteri Bottas.

I mean, Schumacher could do things most (and, actually almost all, and all his contemporaries) drivers couldn't do. That isn't in question. It's well established that Schumacher was superior to Hill, Frentzen, Alesi, Villeneuve, Herbert, and Berger.

It's also established that the Benetton was an illegal car, the same way last year's Ferrari was an illegal car.
First of all it wasn't traction control, it was launch control. And there was nothing illegal about the 95 Benetton.

If the 94 Benetton was illegal, so was the 2008 McLaren. And the McLarens and Ferraris of 94.
 

Albatros

Registered User
Aug 19, 2017
12,274
7,723
Ostsee
Schumacher also pioneered left-foot breaking, the gains of which were misinterpreted by some of his opponents.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
Schumacher also pioneered left-foot breaking, the gains of which were misinterpreted by some of his opponents.

... Nobody ever contested the fact that Schumacher was a pioneer as it pertains to training and techique.
 

JoVel

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Jan 23, 2017
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Mazepin posted some pretty insensitive Covid jokes (especially considering Schwarzman's dad died of it) on his Instagram story that he's since deleted. I think it's safe to say that guy's gonna be a real troublemaker in F1 if he gets that Haas seat. No matter where you look he seems like a real shithead, gonna be probably the most hated non-star driver in quite some time. :laugh:

Not to mention that a relationship between Mazepin and Steiner would be a goldmine for Netflix.
 
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Paris in Flames

Registered User
Feb 4, 2009
15,903
7,935
I guess we'll be finding out who is filling these spots soon enough. F2 season wraps up in Bahrain so everybody who needs a super license will likely have it.

Any predictions for the remaining seats or is it all kinda obvious?

Me:

Red Bull: Perez
Alpha Tauri: Tsunoda
Haas: Schumacher and Mazepin
Mercedes: Well....hmmm....?

Albon stays with Red Bull as a reserve driver. Kyvat...I dunno....maybe hired as a reserve driver or something for Haas? They're gonna need somebody around to sorta help with the car since two rookies with a shit ass car is a terrible idea.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
Mazepin posted some pretty insensitive Covid jokes (especially considering Schwarzman's dad died of it) on his Instagram story that he's since deleted. I think it's safe to say that guy's gonna be a real troublemaker in F1 if he gets that Haas seat. No matter where you look he seems like a real shithead, gonna be probably the most hated non-star driver in quite some time. :laugh:

Not to mention that a relationship between Mazepin and Steiner would be a goldmine for Netflix.

Well, he does have the potential to be make Verstappen look like an enlightened man.

(And that on top of the fact he'll be the worst driver on the grid)
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
I guess we'll be finding out who is filling these spots soon enough. F2 season wraps up in Bahrain so everybody who needs a super license will likely have it.

Any predictions for the remaining seats or is it all kinda obvious?

Me:

Red Bull: Perez
Alpha Tauri: Tsunoda
Haas: Schumacher and Mazepin
Mercedes: Well....hmmm....?

Albon stays with Red Bull as a reserve driver. Kyvat...I dunno....maybe hired as a reserve driver or something for Haas? They're gonna need somebody around to sorta help with the car since two rookies with a shit ass car is a terrible idea.

Kyvat will certainly have some FE offers if he wants a full-time seat.


I'm pretty sure Hamilton stays at Mercedes for one final season.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,009
15,069
The most galling thing about that tweet is that the Telegraph has a "Luxury" section.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,009
15,069
The worst part about Hamilton being made a Sir will be the toadying media who constantly bring it up as if being called sir by an obscenely rich old bat with a sword is somehow comparable to being world champion in your discipline more times than anyone else
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
The worst part about Hamilton being made a Sir will be the toadying media who constantly bring it up as if being called sir by an obscenely rich old bat with a sword is somehow comparable to being world champion in your discipline more times than anyone else

On the other hand, much less accomplished people (in their field) had been knighted in the past.

(I was just about to write Sired and realized it didnt mean the same thing at all).
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
Painful press conference with Lewis Hamilton where he didn't know who Franz Tost was and made himself look like an absolute tit

The awkward silence of disbelief in the room which followed was utterly toe-curling

The worse about this press conference is that people actually thought Hamilton didn't knew who Tost is (he does). He's calling Tost irrelevant, which is an entirely different issue about which he's at worse moderately right about, Tost being a lifelong manager of a B-Team and all.

Whether that point HAD to be made, and whether it was the best way to make it, is an entirely different story.
 
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