2020 Entry Draft Thread Part 8

[WeThreeKings]

Adding quality assets give you the opportunity to trade for need at some point when your team is only few players away from being a contender... Thats what Tampa did at some point trading some kids for a guy like J.T Miller...

The 2nd round is too early for Seely

 

[SOLR]

Holtz played bigger/harder minutes than Raymond, Raymond was a 4th liner.

This is a non-sense argument. In the grand scheme of things its totally immaterial.

For the record: He started there, was promoted to the 3rd line after about 10-12 games (post WJC if my memory serves me well), then was playing 2nd line minutes in the last 2-3 games (I see you didn't watch much games if you think he was a "4th liner"). This is a championship team, Raymond's adversity was internal and is normal for a guy his age in the SHL with guys like Hjalmarsson (one of the top LW in the league at 31), and Max Friberg (ex-hab-ducks-27 years old) being ahead of Raymond. So after 33 pro games, he was starting to be slotted ahead of a 27 years old with a long pedigree, after a better tournament than Holtz at the WJC, Hlinka and U-18.

 

[1000eeer]

First try with the draftprospectshockey simulator:

9. Holtz
39. Perrault
40. O'Rourke
61. Weisblatt
70. Pashin
91. Powell
98. Sourdif
101. Robins
105. Ovchinnikov
132. Cotton
138. McClennon
163. Hlavaj
188. Simoneau
195. Skotnikov

Not too shabby

 

[Goldenhands]

The 2nd round is too early for Seely

Care to explain why?

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Care to explain why?

I don't remember the consensus ranking but the publications all have him slated around pick #100, he's just more of a 3rd to 4th round-ish prospect in short. I'd take him with one of our mid round picks with no hesitation FWIW, he's got some potential.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

This is a non-sense argument. In the grand scheme of things its totally immaterial.

For the record: He started there, was promoted to the 3rd line after about 10-12 games (post WJC if my memory serves me well), then was playing 2nd line minutes in the last 2-3 games (I see you didn't watch much games if you think he was a "4th liner"). This is a championship team, Raymond's adversity was internal and is normal for a guy his age in the SHL with guys like Hjalmarsson (one of the top LW in the league at 31), and Max Friberg (ex-hab-ducks-27 years old) being ahead of Raymond. So after 33 pro games, he was starting to be slotted ahead of a 27 years old with a long pedigree, after a better tournament than Holtz at the WJC, Hlinka and U-18.

The bottom line is simply Holtz was the better player in SHL play.

 

[Meat Wave]

The Wings would be set on D for more than a decade with Hronek, Seider and Sanderson/Drysdale as their foundation. That's a scary thought, and ultimately I think that's where Yzerman is going with his pick.

Hronek QBing the PP, Seider being a great two-way guy, and Sanderson being the shutdown type.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Care to explain why?

Theres a deep pool of prospects until the 4th round and Seeley doesnt present the upside we can get with the players in the 2nd round discussion.

 

[SOLR]

The bottom line is simply Holtz was the better player in SHL play.

Arguable, don't think he was better by a margin bigger than the margin of opportunities.

ie. 16 pts vs. 10 pts track more total icetime than anything else, Raymond's icetime was off 30-40% (matching the point total trend). Frolunda always starts their young like that, it's mechanical, not a merit thing.

We are talking about 30-35 games, small sample.

 

[SOLR]

The Wings would be set on D for more than a decade with Hronek, Seider and Sanderson/Drysdale as their foundation. That's a scary thought, and ultimately I think that's where Yzerman is going with his pick.

Set for a decade with 3 guys not in the NHL yet. The number of times I heard this...

 

[Meat Wave]

Set for a decade with 3 guys not in the NHL yet. The number of times I heard this...

Well it's a projection obviously. What are we doing here if not projecting?

 

[Meat Wave]

Set for a decade with 3 guys not in the NHL yet. The number of times I heard this...

Also, if you think Hronek:

A) hasn't played in the NHL yet
B) is not already an established top-4 guy

You need to watch more games.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Arguable, don't think he was better by a margin bigger than the margin of opportunities.

ie. 16 pts vs. 10 pts track more total icetime than anything else, Raymond's icetime was off 30-40% (matching the point total trend). Frolunda always starts their young like that, it's mechanical, not a merit thing.

We are talking about 30-35 games, small sample.

The concern for me is that Raymond has a tendency to play a perimeter game- especially when facing men. While it could be argued that he will “develop”, the fact Holtz plays a grown man game and has played it effectively against grown men in a grown men league, bodes well for him.

there simply are more questions regarding Raymond. Will he grow? Once he grows, will he attack the danger areas more? Will he start shooting more?

Holtz on the other hand is easy to project. The guy is a damn near lock to be a 30 plus goal guy with size in an NHL top 6.

 

[pc_md]

Reading this thread, Lucas Raymond is underrated here compared to other teams board and compared to main rankings:
Ranked #8 by HOCKEYPROSPECT.COM
Ranked #4 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Ranked #5 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)
Ranked #3 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #4 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #6 by TSN/McKenzie

Why ?

 

[SOLR]

The concern for me is that Raymond has a tendency to play a perimeter game- especially when facing men. While it could be argued that he will “develop”, the fact Holtz plays a grown man game and has played it effectively against grown men in a grown men league, bodes well for him.

there simply are more questions regarding Raymond. Will he grow? Once he grows, will he attack the danger areas more? Will he start shooting more?

Holtz on the other hand is easy to project. The guy is a damn near lock to be a 30 plus goal guy with size in an NHL top 6.

Raymond never shied from traffic in the last 5 years (didn't do it at the WJC either against a lot of older players, most of his point in the center), generally, players don't become perimeter players just like that.

I watched 15 games of each (Holtz and Raymond), and Raymond to me was not acting like a perimeter player. The SHL as a perimeter style because of the defensive structures and surface area. By NHL standards, Holtz played a perimeter game as well.

You can say many things about Raymond, that he needs to get faster and stronger, but I don't find the description as a perimeter player very fitting for what is going on at all.

 

[SOLR]

Reading this thread, Lucas Raymond is underrated here compared to other teams board and compared to main rankings:
Ranked #8 by HOCKEYPROSPECT.COM
Ranked #4 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Ranked #5 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)
Ranked #3 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #4 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #6 by TSN/McKenzie

Why ?

There is a big history of missing developing players who are not showcased in points in the short term on this board.

 

[SOLR]

Also, if you think Hronek:

A) hasn't played in the NHL yet
B) is not already an established top-4 guy

You need to watch more games.

I wasn't talking about Hronek. Seider, Sanderson and Drysdale.

 

[Goldenhands]

I don't remember the consensus ranking but the publications all have him slated around pick #100, he's just more of a 3rd to 4th round-ish prospect in short. I'd take him with one of our mid round picks with no hesitation FWIW, he's got some potential.

hockeyprospect.com have him ranked way higher than than most lists...

Theres a deep pool of prospects until the 4th round and Seeley doesnt present the upside we can get with the players in the 2nd round discussion.

Disagree, after 20-25th overall, there is a drop and Seeley easily belong to that 2nd group, kid is one of the best skaters in the draft, walks the line extremmely well on the PP, great passing skills, above average puck skills, clearly there is upside in this kid!

The draft will prove you wrong, cant see Seeley last very long in that 2nd round...

 

[ahmedou]

2020 Draft: Smilanic stayed positive despite injuries, illness

''Seth Appert (NTDP Coach): Ty is an explosive, world-class skater. He's certainly one of the most dynamic players of the draft and has shown that while playing through numerous injuries this season. Ty's game has matured and he's starting to use his speed to become a strong defensive player with his ability to put pressure on the puck. This increase in defensive pressure along with his increased strength in the weight room has allowed him to spend less time in the defensive zone and more on the attack."

''Dan Marr (director of NHL Central Scouting): Ty Smilanic is on course to set his own path; he plays a dynamic game on the puck utilizing his speed and quickness to generate and produce offense. He gives a consistent effort and is relentless on pucks. Everything he does is high energy, utilizing his speed, quickness and competitiveness."

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

There is a big history of missing developing players who are not showcased in points in the short term on this board.

lol I’d say the opposite. This board is all about dAt pOtEnShIaL

 

[The Little Viking]

hockeyprospect.com have him ranked way higher than than most lists...



Disagree, after 20-25th overall, there is a drop and Seeley easily belong to that 2nd group, kid is one of the best skaters in the draft, walks the line extremmely well on the PP, great passing skills, above average puck skills, clearly there is upside in this kid!

The draft will prove you wrong, cant see Seeley last very long in that 2nd round...

Romanov was ranked lower than his selection as well.

 

[Goldenhands]

Romanov was ranked lower than his selection as well.

Indeed, Seeley is getting more exposure though, I wouldnt be surprised to see him ranked very high on most scouts' lists...

I think Seeley and Jurmo are realistic targets with big upside early 2nds... Our D-core would be set for the next decade if we end up drafting both...

LD:

Romanov
Norlinder
Jurmo
Seeley
Mete
Struble
Harris
Fairbrother

RD:

Brook
Fleury
Juussen

Romanov, Norlinder and Harris can all play on the right side if I'm not wrong...

You keep the best of the bunch, you trade the others for needs...

 

[WeThreeKings]

Jurmo I'm a big fan of.. Niemela as well.

I don't see the huge upside for Seely, he looks like a potential 3rd pairing guy.

 

[le_sean]

Indeed, Seeley is getting more exposure though, I wouldnt be surprised to see him ranked very high on most scouts' lists...

I think Seeley and Jurmo are realistic targets with big upside early 2nds... Our D-core would be set for the next decade if we end up drafting both...

LD:

Romanov
Norlinder
Jurmo
Seeley
Mete
Struble
Harris
Fairbrother

RD:

Brook
Fleury
Juussen

Romanov, Norlinder and Harris can all play on the right side if I'm not wrong...

You keep the best of the bunch, you trade the others for needs...

Seeley is just a slightly bigger Mete. While a player like that has value, his lack of shot will definitely expose him offensively in the big leagues. I’m not using a Top 40 pick on a player like that. There will be better players available.

 

[Goldenhands]

Jurmo I'm a big fan of.. Niemela as well.

I don't see the huge upside for Seely, he looks like a potential 3rd pairing guy.

If Seeley can develop his shot, his potential is monstrous since his skating and passing skills are already top notch, he is pretty smart at pinching at the right time and at breaking plays in the neutral zone... You will see him make mistakes here and there in his own zone, but nothing alarming or not fixable, should cut on those once he gets stronger, kid is one of the youngest players in the draft and has plenty of room to grow physically...