Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VI

[Raspewtin]

Duclair, Buchnevich, Reunanen, Day, Saarela, even Aaltonen to an extent were all guys who fell for a reason or another that the NYR took. So I don’t see it.

Buch and Duke fell for very specific reasons though going back a full season+.

 

[eco's bones]

I know this isn't the DeAngelo thread but seriously, I can't believe how many Rangers fans just want to dump this guy. For (Phil Leotardo voice) 20 f***IN YEARS we've been desperately searching for that elite scoring d-man, PPQB type. Poti, Redden, Del Zotto, Boyle, Yandle, Shattenkirk... all those disasters and money wasted trying to find it. We finally have him, and he's young, he's feisty, he's tough, he's a leader. People want to dump him because he's not a shutdown defender and his politics. Crazy stuff.

You know Lias Andersson was very good in Sweden, too. It doesn't always translate. Nils had a great year but his tools aren't really that good. Don't think he can just replace Tony so easily. And I know we have Fox but i'm not so sure he can do what Tony does either.

We might have been searching for 20 years but that guy could just as easily be Fox or Lundkvist. If DeAngelo is a 60 point guy (prorating his season) as a 24 year old then Fox is a 50 point guy (prorating his season) as a 21 year old and Tony had more pwp opportunity. Meanwhile the defense first minded Lundkvist's game blossomed over in the SHL--he broke the record for point production in a season by an under 20 defenseman and was just pumping in goals game after game as the season was concluding. Nils tools are just fine.

The main issue then is we have a glut coming on RD in a year or two and one player is coming into cap money and the other two aren't or aren't so much. The other two as well are more reliable defensemen.

Tony's an RFA with arbitration rights when the year concludes and that will play into what happens as well. I would not go long term with a contract with him. To me our next big long term contract should be Mika. We have players that supersede Tony who will eventually need to be locked up--Mika, Kakko, Lafreniere----perhaps Fox, perhaps Shesterkin. There are only so many we can do this for and Tony doesn't rate with them. I can see us going forward with Tony for another year or so but Nils Lundkvist is eventually going to be his replacement.

 

[TopShelf86]

I know this isn't the DeAngelo thread but seriously, I can't believe how many Rangers fans just want to dump this guy. For (Phil Leotardo voice) 20 f***IN YEARS we've been desperately searching for that elite scoring d-man, PPQB type. Poti, Redden, Del Zotto, Boyle, Yandle, Shattenkirk... all those disasters and money wasted trying to find it. We finally have him, and he's young, he's feisty, he's tough, he's a leader. People want to dump him because he's not a shutdown defender and his politics. Crazy stuff.

You know Lias Andersson was very good in Sweden, too. It doesn't always translate. Nils had a great year but his tools aren't really that good. Don't think he can just replace Tony so easily. And I know we have Fox but i'm not so sure he can do what Tony does either.

Thank you!

 

[TopShelf86]

Well I don’t see anybody else liking it lol. Who cares that he was only the 28th pick? It’s pretty obvious in a redraft he would go much higher. Just because defensive prospects is a strength doesn’t means you trade probably your best one. It is horrendous

You're making it seem like that I'm saying just discard him for nothing in return

I'm saying we trade from a place of strength to satisfy a need
Nils may be very good in the future
But let's not make him Norris Trophy winner already shall we?

Have you seen Cal Makar....that's somebody who you dont part with
We beef our prospects up too much...and I'm not even saying hes not worthy of praise. In fact I'm saying use it to fill a need.
But whatever man

 

[eco's bones]

I know, but that Gretzky quote at the end of the video got to me. Add to that if Quinn has to be replaced that would probably mean the season is shot anyway, let Mark have a shot for the remainder of the season. I’m pretty sure that he would be surrounded by good quality NHL assistants.

That's not the way it works though. Coaching is a craft and a continual learning experience--it's not just inspiring locker room speeches. A coach has to implement a system and get everyone on board---he has to be fair and a psychologist at the same time because he's dealing with numerous personalities and out and out favoritism leads to resentment. It's an ongoing balancing act and it's dealing with all kinds of pressures, losing streaks, a power play going dead, a goalie who has lost confidence, some shit going on outside--someone's wife or girlfriend is pregnant, someone's father or mother is going through cancer treatment, some guy like Andersson you have to tell he's going to the minors. You only get so far with screaming, or discipline or inspiring speeches. With the Rangers we might add that this is a developing team--not a contending team and the expectations are different.

But finally if someone wants to be a coach--they should coach but start small and work your way up. Pee Wee's, high school, juniors--they are all valuable experiences. I remember Jacques Lemaire as a division 3 college hockey coach. He's a HOF player too you know. He was willing to put in the work.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You're making it seem like that I'm saying just discard him for nothing in return

I'm saying we trade from a place of strength to satisfy a need
Nils may be very good in the future
But let's not make him Norris Trophy winner already shall we?

Have you seen Cal Makar....that's somebody who you dont part with
We beef our prospects up too much...and I'm not even saying hes not worthy of praise. In fact I'm saying use it to fill a need.
But whatever man

Yeah....you’re wrong.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

That's not the way it works though. Coaching is a craft and a continual learning experience--it's not just inspiring locker room speeches. A coach has to implement a system and get everyone on board---he has to be fair and a psychologist at the same time because he's dealing with numerous personalities and out and out favoritism leads to resentment. It's an ongoing balancing act and it's dealing with all kinds of pressures, losing streaks, a power play going dead, a goalie who has lost confidence, some shit going on outside--someone's wife or girlfriend is pregnant, someone's father or mother is going through cancer treatment, some guy like Andersson you have to tell he's going to the minors. You only get so far with screaming, or discipline or inspiring speeches. With the Rangers we might add that this is a developing team--not a contending team and the expectations are different.

But finally if someone wants to be a coach--they should coach but start small and work your way up. Pee Wee's, high school, juniors--they are all valuable experiences. I remember Jacques Lemaire as a division 3 college hockey coach. He's a HOF player too you know. He was willing to put in the work.

I know, you’re right .

 

[Clark Kellogg]

That's not the way it works though. Coaching is a craft and a continual learning experience--it's not just inspiring locker room speeches. A coach has to implement a system and get everyone on board---he has to be fair and a psychologist at the same time because he's dealing with numerous personalities and out and out favoritism leads to resentment. It's an ongoing balancing act and it's dealing with all kinds of pressures, losing streaks, a power play going dead, a goalie who has lost confidence, some shit going on outside--someone's wife or girlfriend is pregnant, someone's father or mother is going through cancer treatment, some guy like Andersson you have to tell he's going to the minors. You only get so far with screaming, or discipline or inspiring speeches. With the Rangers we might add that this is a developing team--not a contending team and the expectations are different.

But finally if someone wants to be a coach--they should coach but start small and work your way up. Pee Wee's, high school, juniors--they are all valuable experiences. I remember Jacques Lemaire as a division 3 college hockey coach. He's a HOF player too you know. He was willing to put in the work.

In an alternate universe Mark Messier leaves the Rangers after the 2004 season takes the road you laid out and returns to New York and leads the Rangers to the greatest Dynasty the National Hockey League ever knows.

 

[TopShelf86]

Yeah....you’re wrong.

Lol excellent

 

[Edge]

I have a strong feeling we are going to trade Georgiev + #22 to Toronto for #15 if someone we like is still there. Otherwise I think we trade this pick, possibly in a package, for a more ready player. Time will tell.

I would note Chicago as a potential partner for a similar deal.

Personally I think Toronto has someone targeted there and isn’t moving their pick.

I believe the Rangers would prefer an NHL ready talent, but I think finding someone in the crosshairs is going to be a challenge.

Either they are young and cheap, and a team doesn’t want to move them. Or they are going to be more expensive and the Rangers have to be careful about bringing salary on before they settle their own internal affairs.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I know this is my gut talking and not my head but I wouldn’t mind Mark Messier coaching this team( On an interm deal.)if Quinn needs to be replaced during the upcoming season.

Can we please not hire someone with 0 experience to coach an NHL team?

 

[cwede]

Top 10 isnt happening unless you really incentivize a team to move back 12-16 or so spots.
Unless a team is truly desperate in a win now situation and they dont care about a prospect that cant help right away
22 and Strome doesnt get top 10...unfortunately

This might be the time to use Nils possibly? Trade from a position of strength for a need?....then we can put the DeAngelo stuff to bed. We know what we have in him and hes gonna get even better. Expensive tho
If they think Lundell can step right in idk.

Eventually something is gonna have to give RHD wise...someone's gonna go
They need to ascertain just exactly who they love outside of Lafrenière and how much they want him. It all depends on that

If they're not crazy about anyone then just hold your cards and wait

I dont see why it's so horrendous
We're talking about a 28th overall pick who isnt proven in pro hockey vs top 10 pick in an amazing draft year. Also a Nils plays a position that we're completely logjammed at for the foreseeable future and the move would take care of 2C for a very long time

One could argue it's not the best idea but horrendous? No

I dont think its 'horrendous' but i think its a real bad idea.
Nils is precisely the type of guy you hope for in the draft - at D+2 one of the best at his position outside NHL.

Yeah he plays at a currently deep position, but roster/pipelines change more, and more quickly, than often assumed.

Also, i worry that moving up sooner at notable cost just wastes valuable assets. Drafting being an imprecise science, as others note, acquiring 'magic beans'

In this draft, after about ~#11, the pundits rankings really really vary.
Guys NYR like in low teens, one or more very likely there at #22.
Yes if you see an exceptional opportunity, as with KAndre, risk an asset.
But a validated asset like Nils L is worth way more than a comparable pick to where selected at 18.

In general i think trading much puck to sooner aint worth it. Just look at last year, NYR got guys like Robertson, Aaltonen, Henriksson at spots where many expected they already be gone.

 

[JCProdigy]

Look, whether the board wants to hear or not, the Rangers have not told other teams a flat "No" when it's come up, and most people around the league don't view it as a certainty right now.

Everyone's in near universal agreement it would take a mega-deal to make it happen, but no one outside or within the organization thinks it is a certainty at this time.

I could debate until I'm blue in the face why the Rangers shouldn't go that route, but I'm not the one making that decision.

There's not much more I can say beyond that really.

Question Edge: In a similar situation, do you know if there was any interest from other teams in trading for the 2nd OA last year? And did the Rangers entertain or flat out say no if there was interest?