WJC: 2020 Canada Roster Talk

[JackSlater]

McDavid, MacKinnon, Barzal, Marner, Chabot, Point not high end enough? We're still pumping out some great players, but other countries are doing more too. Most recent draft looked pretty good for our future with studs like Dach, Cozens, and Byram.

No, that's not good enough for Canada.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Canada is not producing any less talent the in decades past, it's just, as has been said, other countries have grown incredibly in their player production in that time. The are moving up, Canada is not moving down.

 

[hockeyanalyst99]

Canada is not producing any less talent the in decades past, it's just, as has been said, other countries have grown incredibly in their player production in that time. The are moving up, Canada is not moving down.

Hello there,

Do you realize that the NHL is employing more non-Canadian, see the data table. Over the last 10 years, Canadian players as a percentage in the NHL has been consistently dropping (especially on 3rd and 4th lines are being replaced with Americans and Europeans) Why is that? If you watch NCAA, Major Swedish and Finish Junior Hockey, you will find out. I supposed you do not support the National u17 academy program!! Please watch some other junior League and you will find out.


See the data from NHL draft table:

11	9	24	45.83%	37.50%
NHL Draft Data 1995 2005 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 1 Canada 59.40% 47.50% 58.80% 49.50% 47.10% 39.10% 47.40% 47.40% 38.10% 37.90% 42.20% 37.30% 33.60% 32.60% 2 United States 6.80% 27.40% 19.90% 25.20% 28.10% 28.50% 25.60% 25.10% 30.50% 25.60% 24.60% 21.70% 24.00% 25.80% Europe 3 Sweden 3.40% 5.20% 8.10% 11.40% 9.50% 13.30% 10.40% 11.80% 13.30% 9.50% 11.80% 12.40% 13.80% 12.00% 4 Russia 10.70% 5.20% 4.30% 3.30% 3.80% 4.80% 5.70% 5.20% 6.20% 8.10% 8.10% 10.60% 9.20% 12.90% 5 Finland 5.60% 3.90% 3.30% 4.80% 3.30% 4.80% 4.30% 3.80% 4.30% 6.20% 7.10% 8.30% 7.40% 10.10% 6 Czech Republic 9.00% 5.20% 1.40% 1.40% 2.40% 4.30% 2.80% 1.90% 3.80% 5.20% 1.90% 4.10% 5.10% 3.20% [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[hockeyanalyst99]

Canada is not producing any less talent the in decades past, it's just, as has been said, other countries have grown incredibly in their player production in that time. The are moving up, Canada is not moving down.

Here is more data showing that Cad players in the NHL is dropping down to 42.5% . If NHL is drafting at about 32 % Cad players, you will see the Cad players in the NHL eventually dropping down 33-35% in the next few years. This will also eventually affect the amount of top Cad players in top NHL Top 30 players.

The NHL is going for speed and puck-carrying skills. This is what the employers want. We need to amend our system to improve, not standing still. Change and amend the system, or many Cad players will not be employed. Of course, there are many who like the status quo. Those are the impediments. Canada has not been winning enough World Junior title in the last 8 years. Let' s make it happen!!

Teams	Cnd Players	American players	Total Players	Cnd Players %	US Players %	link
Total	322	206	758	42.48%	27.18%
Anaheim Ducks	12	8	28	42.86%	28.57%	Elite Prospects - Team Pages
Arizona Coyotes	10	11	28	35.71%	39.29%	Arizona Coyotes at eliteprospects.com
Boston Bruins	4	11	22	18.18%	50.00%	Elite Prospects - Team Pages
Buffalo Sabres	6	10	23	26.09%	43.48%	Elite Prospects - Team Pages
Calgary Flames	11	6	23	47.83%	26.09%	https://www.eliteprospects.com/teams[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Carolina Hurricanes	10	4	21	47.62%	19.05%	https://www.eliteprospects.com/teams[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Chicago Blackhawks	11	6	24	45.83%	25.00%	https://www.eliteprospects.com/teams[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Colorado Avalanche	9	6	25	36.00%	24.00%	https://www.eliteprospects.com/teams[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Columbus Blue Jackets	9	5	23	39.13%	21.74%	https://www.eliteprospects.com/teams[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Dallas Stars	11	4	28	39.29%	14.29%
Detroit Red Wings	9	6	24	37.50%	25.00%
Edmonton Oilers	16	1	23	69.57%	4.35%
Florida Pathers	17	4	26	65.38%	15.38%
LA Kings	9	9	24	37.50%	37.50%
Minnesota Wild	6	12	25	24.00%	48.00%
Montréal Canadiens	16	3	25	64.00%	12.00%
Nashville Predators	10	6	26	38.46%	23.08%
New Jersey Devils	6	14	27	22.22%	51.85%
New York Islanders	15	4	25	60.00%	16.00%
New York Rangers	5	9	24	20.83%	37.50%
Ottawa Senators	12	5	23	52.17%	21.74%
Philadelphia Flyers	13	4	25	52.00%	16.00%
Pittsburgh Penguins	7	10	24	29.17%	41.67%
San Jose Sharks	9	5	23	39.13%	21.74%
St. Louis Blues	15	4	24	62.50%	16.67%
Tampa Bay Lightning	11	5	23	47.83%	21.74%
Toronto Maple Leafs	11	5	23	47.83%	21.74%
Vancouver Canucks	13	5	26	50.00%	19.23%
Vegas Golden Knights	12	8	26	46.15%	30.77%
Washington Capitals	6	7	23	26.09%	30.43%
Winnipeg Jets	11	9	24	45.83%	37.50%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Captain Bowie]

Hello there,
*snip*

Cute stats. Until you can show me that any single country has surpassed Canada in percentage of total NHL players, we have not fallen behind anybody. The number of American players drafted is creeping up towards Canada's number, good! Their program has done a great job in recent years. It's making the sport better, deeper, more talented. Much of the same from a few European countries, particularly Finland. Great!

As I've said multiple times now, it's not about Canada trending downwards, it's about other countries trending up.

 

[Oleksiak]

I think the first step to more consistent success is to improve both the caliber and continuity of the coaching staff. Tim Hunter last year seemed like a political appointment, and the team suffered for it. Bringing in the Hunter brothers, with NHL experience and a great track record of developing star players gives us the most qualified leadership since Pat Quinn.

Ideally, I'd like us to hire a full-time guy so that players at the lower levels can learn the appropriate systems.

 

[JackSlater]

It is typical that people bury their heads in the sand regarding the development of Canadian players, usually only to come around to the issue once Canada starts faltering at the senior level. Pretty much the same story as in the late 90s, though now there may not be best on best level and thus I suppose it may take longer to sink in. The issue isn't whether Canada is producing good players but whether Canada is doing so at an acceptable level. There are some positive signs as Hockey Canada has made some changes at the lowest levels, but more should be considered and complacency should be avoided.

 

[De Montreal]

With Ty Smith looking out of place in pre-season, maybe he will get a chance to play at the WJC this year? Maybe ala Victor Mete, staying up in the NHL, but getting freed during Christmas break to play in that tournamenet? that would be huge for that squad.

 

[JackSlater]

It does look like the NHL isn't going to be a huge factor for Canada this year. Can't really complain.

 

[GoldenKnight]

It does look like the NHL isn't going to be a huge factor for Canada this year. Can't really complain.

Unfortunately it looks like the number one center might stick in Arizona this year.

 

[cg98]

Hello there,

Do you realize that the NHL is employing more non-Canadian, see the data table. Over the last 10 years, Canadian players as a percentage in the NHL has been consistently dropping (especially on 3rd and 4th lines are being replaced with Americans and Europeans) Why is that? If you watch NCAA, Major Swedish and Finish Junior Hockey, you will find out. I supposed you do not support the National u17 academy program!! Please watch some other junior League and you will find out.


See the data from NHL draft table:

11	9	24	45.83%	37.50%
NHL Draft Data 1995 2005 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 1 Canada 59.40% 47.50% 58.80% 49.50% 47.10% 39.10% 47.40% 47.40% 38.10% 37.90% 42.20% 37.30% 33.60% 32.60% 2 United States 6.80% 27.40% 19.90% 25.20% 28.10% 28.50% 25.60% 25.10% 30.50% 25.60% 24.60% 21.70% 24.00% 25.80% Europe 3 Sweden 3.40% 5.20% 8.10% 11.40% 9.50% 13.30% 10.40% 11.80% 13.30% 9.50% 11.80% 12.40% 13.80% 12.00% 4 Russia 10.70% 5.20% 4.30% 3.30% 3.80% 4.80% 5.70% 5.20% 6.20% 8.10% 8.10% 10.60% 9.20% 12.90% 5 Finland 5.60% 3.90% 3.30% 4.80% 3.30% 4.80% 4.30% 3.80% 4.30% 6.20% 7.10% 8.30% 7.40% 10.10% 6 Czech Republic 9.00% 5.20% 1.40% 1.40% 2.40% 4.30% 2.80% 1.90% 3.80% 5.20% 1.90% 4.10% 5.10% 3.20% [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Good god not this again.

Its been proven to you time and time again that Canada is not declining, other countries have revamped and restructured their development systems and are finally reaping the benefits of them. We are aware that the Canadian development system at all levels isnt the best in the world anymore, but that doesnt mean it doesnt work anymore or has declined. We are still the leader in developing and outputting NHL stars and there are still more Canadian rookies debuting in the NHL than any other country every year and it wont stop being that way for a while, regardless of success at the junior level. Stop this nonsense.

 

[JackSlater]

Unfortunately it looks like the number one center might stick in Arizona this year.

Yeah I've only really paid attention to Hayton, Dobson, and Smith at the camps and it sounds like Hayton will be gone. Canada almost never has its top eligible centre at this tournament though (fewer than 10 times since 1982 by my count) so that's pretty much par for the course. I'm not expecting Dobson either, and if it ends up being just two players missing then that's certainly better than usual.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Good god not this again.

Its been proven to you time and time again that Canada is not declining, other countries have revamped and restructured their development systems and are finally reaping the benefits of them. We are aware that the Canadian development system at all levels isnt the best in the world anymore, but that doesnt mean it doesnt work anymore or has declined. We are still the leader in developing and outputting NHL stars and there are still more Canadian rookies debuting in the NHL than any other country every year and it wont stop being that way for a while, regardless of success at the junior level. Stop this nonsense.

This is all I was getting at.

 

[hockeyanalyst99]

Good god not this again.

Its been proven to you time and time again that Canada is not declining, other countries have revamped and restructured their development systems and are finally reaping the benefits of them. We are aware that the Canadian development system at all levels isnt the best in the world anymore, but that doesnt mean it doesnt work anymore or has declined. We are still the leader in developing and outputting NHL stars and there are still more Canadian rookies debuting in the NHL than any other country every year and it wont stop being that way for a while, regardless of success at the junior level. Stop this nonsense.

I got it.

CG98 and Art of Sedinery are ''against any idea in improving the country existing development.'' I know it is hard to accept new ideas.

''As I've said multiple times now, it's not about Canada trending downwards, it's about other countries trending up.'' Please review what you just wrote. When something is going up to closing to your position, you are essentially going down or falling. Let me provide an analogy: when the American currency is going up, Cad currency stays the same. This means, US dollars appreciate and Cad Dollars depreciate.

Why can't you write like 'WooTangClan' who suggests better coaching standard? So, HC needs to figure this out. I am just suggesting U17 academy only because U18 and U19 academy will meet great oppositions from CHL owners. Are you a CHL club owner!!

 

[Gold Standard]

I got it.

CG98 and Art of Sedinery are ''against any idea in improving the country existing development.'' I know it is hard to accept new ideas.

''As I've said multiple times now, it's not about Canada trending downwards, it's about other countries trending up.'' Please review what you just wrote. When something is going up to closing to your position, you are essentially going down or falling. Let me provide an analogy: when the American currency is going up, Cad currency stays the same. This means, US dollars appreciate and Cad Dollars depreciate.

Why can't you write like 'WooTangClan' who suggests better coaching standard? So, HC needs to figure this out. I am just suggesting U17 academy only because U18 and U19 academy will meet great oppositions from CHL owners. Are you a CHL club owner!!

nonsense. The only result of this would be the U17 team winning the U17 tournament a few more times and will not have the result you seem to think it will on Canada wide skill development. and hothousing a particular age group is hardly a new idea or innovation.


What needs to happen is CHL teams to play less and practice more. 68 game schedule is just too much.

more urgent reforms are needed in age groups novice to bantam.

and who in Canada calls it academies? How very European of you. somehow I doubt you have much of a vested interest in Canadian hockey development.

 

[Gold Standard]

Yeah I've only really paid attention to Hayton, Dobson, and Smith at the camps and it sounds like Hayton will be gone. Canada almost never has its top eligible centre at this tournament though (fewer than 10 times since 1982 by my count) so that's pretty much par for the course. I'm not expecting Dobson either, and if it ends up being just two players missing then that's certainly better than usual.

Ah yes, in the good ol'days missing only 2-3 players I would say that Canada would be the prohibitive favorite, but not this year. My guess would be Hockey Canada will take the same approach as the Malmo tournament. They'll go heavy with 18 year olds in an attempt to bring back as many players as possible the following year in a home tournament. Hockey Canada can't afford too many more dud tournaments at home like Vancouver/Victoria.

 

[PuckLife]

Based on the 1019 NHL draft, I suspect we are worse off next year than this year. USA dominated the draft. I think they will ice a competitive team this year.

 

[JackSlater]

Ah yes, in the good ol'days missing only 2-3 players I would say that Canada would be the prohibitive favorite, but not this year. My guess would be Hockey Canada will take the same approach as the Malmo tournament. They'll go heavy with 18 year olds in an attempt to bring back as many players as possible the following year in a home tournament. Hockey Canada can't afford too many more dud tournaments at home like Vancouver/Victoria.

I don't think that the Hunters will play that game. I'm interested to see if they go in for some of the draft eligible talent outside of Lafreniere. As per usual the depth is there for a strong team but the top end isn't very impressive.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I got it.

CG98 and Art of Sedinery are ''against any idea in improving the country existing development.'' I know it is hard to accept new ideas.

I said no such thing are anything close to resembling it. I'm all for any improvement that could be made.

''As I've said multiple times now, it's not about Canada trending downwards, it's about other countries trending up.'' Please review what you just wrote. When something is going up to closing to your position, you are essentially going down or falling. Let me provide an analogy: when the American currency is going up, Cad currency stays the same. This means, US dollars appreciate and Cad Dollars depreciate.

Why can't you write like 'WooTangClan' who suggests better coaching standard? So, HC needs to figure this out. I am just suggesting U17 academy only because U18 and U19 academy will meet great oppositions from CHL owners. Are you a CHL club owner!!

The bold is a false statement. Canada is not going backwards. Canada is not getting worse. Other countries are getting better. Our gap over the world is getting smaller. But again it's not because we're moving backwards, others are moving forwards.

In your analogy, it doesn't work because the CAD and USD do not operate independent of each other in a vacuum, and they compare at the end of the day. The value they hold is directly related to how they compare to each other.

Let me give you an analogy. If this is a race, we're in first place. But 2nd, 3rd and 4th's most recent lap was faster than ours, so our lead has gotten smaller. It's not because our engine exploded and we are pulled off to the side of the track on fire, it's because a few other cars have put up the best lap times they ever have.

This is overall GREAT for the sport of hockey for which I am a fan. I am a huge supporter of Team Canada, and I'm not happy when Canada isn't able to pull off gold in any international competition. But I also recognize that it is a good sign for the future of our sport, which is slowly becoming less of a niche sport around the world over time.

 

[cg98]

I got it.

CG98 and Art of Sedinery are ''against any idea in improving the country existing development.'' I know it is hard to accept new ideas.

''As I've said multiple times now, it's not about Canada trending downwards, it's about other countries trending up.'' Please review what you just wrote. When something is going up to closing to your position, you are essentially going down or falling. Let me provide an analogy: when the American currency is going up, Cad currency stays the same. This means, US dollars appreciate and Cad Dollars depreciate.

Why can't you write like 'WooTangClan' who suggests better coaching standard? So, HC needs to figure this out. I am just suggesting U17 academy only because U18 and U19 academy will meet great oppositions from CHL owners. Are you a CHL club owner!!

Are you a hockey analyst !!

Im all for improving the Canadian hockey system, quit putting words into my mouth that I never said.

The Canadian hockey system still works and still produces more NHL hockey players more than any other nation every year and it wont stop heing that way for years. That is not a decline so you go review what you say instead.

Hard to call yourself a hockey analyst when you're completely ignorant.

 

[kyle44]

This thread has really gone off topic. The purpose is to discuss the 2020 World Junior team, not to debate whether Canadian hockey development has fallen off.

 

[LDN]

Some OHL players that will be looked at:
Foudy, McMichael, Merkley,Harley, Tomasino, Damiani, Noel, Hayton(If Back), Dellandria, Suzuki, McShane, Hillis, Byfield, Perfetti, Chisholm, Jones, Dudas. G.Clarke, Bahl..I am sure there are more that I missed.

 

[Halfy]

Time to start pencilling Byfield into your lineups.

 

[hockeyanalyst99]

nonsense. The only result of this would be the U17 team winning the U17 tournament a few more times and will not have the result you seem to think it will on Canada wide skill development. and hothousing a particular age group is hardly a new idea or innovation.


What needs to happen is CHL teams to play less and practice more. 68 game schedule is just too much.

more urgent reforms are needed in age groups novice to bantam.

and who in Canada calls it academies? How very European of you. somehow I doubt you have much of a vested interest in Canadian hockey development.

Call it an academy or program, whatever you like. The reason why i was leaning towards the word academy is it has to provide both education and hockey training at the same time. It would be a special subsidized hockey school/club for Western Canada Kids. When these 22 kids turn 18, HC can assess how many of those kids are drafted. For example, not all Team Canada Black U17 are drafted by the NHL. Approximately only half of them are drafted.

It is hard to push for changes in any aspect of society in Canada. So, the trick is to push for small changes, like U17 program. Then, HC can assess how many of the kids are drafted by the NHL, or see if these kids can dominate when they can get to their first year of Junior (17 or 16).

There is a lot of resistance in the country for changes. People just like to disagree and reject when there is an idea, especially when it is something similar to other countries. If the program is run properly, it should pay dividends at the World Junior level. Pick 22 15-16 years old kids from Western Canada, they don't have to be top WHL draftees. Hire the best coaches and train them at the HC rink in Calgary, then see if 18 of theses kids can develop top-end skills to be considered as NHL draftees.

Please come and join me to leave a comment at HC facebook post link below.
Thank you for your support.
Hockey Canada

 

[hockeyanalyst99]

I forgot to mention to post comments to push for changes or U17 program. Call whatever you like. I think i will go with u17 Academy of Excellency