Prospect Info: 2020 85th Overall Pick | RW Maxim Groshev

IceColdOx

Registered User
Jan 29, 2019
577
365
Watertown, NY
Russian forward Maxim Groshev spent the majority of the season playing against men in the KHL. He put up one goal and six assists for seven points in 36 games for Nizhnekamsk Neftekhimik. Groshev also played in three playoff games without recording a point. Playing for Reaktor Nizhnekamsk in the MHL, he put up two goals and three assists for five points in eight games. Groshev also represented his country at the World Juniors but did not score in the tournament. He played a bottom-line role in helping the team to a silver medal. He also played in the Canada-Russia Super Series, picking up two goals and an assist for three points in six games.

In 2018-19, Groshev spent most of the season in the MHL. He scored seven goals and 13 assists for 20 points in 47 games. He also played three games in the Russian U18 League, putting up one goal and five points. Groshev played for Russian at the IIHF Under-18 World Championships. He scored three goals and four points in seven games, winning silver. Groshev also had two goals and three points in six games at the World Junior A Challenge.

Maxim Groshev Scouting Report: 2020 NHL Draft #112
 

DaBolts

Stanley Cup Boat Parades ROCK
Feb 3, 2015
14,992
10,667
Because we can never have enough Russian snipers.:D
 

TheDaysOf 04

[ 2 6 ] [ 4 ]
Jun 23, 2007
52,501
22,359
NJ



Making the KHL at age 17 is impressive, but I wonder what the plan is for Groshev.

Kucherov also played in the KHL as a teenager but made the choice to come over to play in the QMJHL and AHL and that development path worked out well for him. Groshev could certainly get more ice time and opportunities playing in Syracuse.

Either way, if there's a WJC this winter, which is scheduled for Edmonton, I'm sure he'll play a big role on Team Russia.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269



Making the KHL at age 17 is impressive, but I wonder what the plan is for Groshev.

Kucherov also played in the KHL as a teenager but made the choice to come over to play in the QMJHL and AHL and that development path worked out well for him. Groshev could certainly get more ice time and opportunities playing in Syracuse.

Either way, if there's a WJC this winter, which is scheduled for Edmonton, I'm sure he'll play a big role on Team Russia.

1.Amazing people don't know their own team's stars stories. Kucherov was a special case of being stuck with a bad org at that time. He was lazy or too impulsive to look for better options in Russia. To this day his playing in NA minors was a setback in his development. Obviously you can't "kill" that kind of talent with a bit of NA minors, but the time was utterly wasted for Kucherov. And following the same path might be deadly for a lesser talent.

2.How would playing in inferior leagues help Groshev's development? The holy mantra of TOI is absurd. You can play pond hockey all day and learn nothing.

3.How big his WJC tole will be depends on how you define big role. Will he be an important player? Yes, he will. Will he be one of the major offensive threats? I doubt it.

That evaluation by Chris Peters is quite accurate.
 

TheDaysOf 04

[ 2 6 ] [ 4 ]
Jun 23, 2007
52,501
22,359
NJ
1.Amazing people don't know their own team's stars stories. Kucherov was a special case of being stuck with a bad org at that time. He was lazy or too impulsive to look for better options in Russia. To this day his playing in NA minors was a setback in his development. Obviously you can't "kill" that kind of talent with a bit of NA minors, but the time was utterly wasted for Kucherov. And following the same path might be deadly for a lesser talent.
I am very familiar with Nikita Kucherov's story. The plan originally according to Head Scout Al Murray was for Kucherov to stay and develop in Russia at his own pace. There was no pressure to come over. He had a shoulder injury during the 2012 season and when he came to the Lightning's development camp that summer, testing showed that he needed a shoulder surgery. Either CSKA Moscow disagreed with our doctors or they really just didn't want to pay for it. So Kucherov came over, The Lightning took care of his shoulder, and he found a new playing situation joining his good friend Mikhail Grigorenko in Quebec.

I'm pretty sure Kuch would not only say his time in the Q and AHL helped him improve his game, but it also prepared him to make that big leap into the NHL.
2.How would playing in inferior leagues help Groshev's development? The holy mantra of TOI is absurd. You can play pond hockey all day and learn nothing.
The AHL is a developmental league. Kids need to develop. Arguably, nobody does that better than us among NHL teams. I don't see what an offensive wizard like Kucherov gains from playing 9 minutes a night on a 4th line. In the AHL, he got top minutes, time on special teams, and played with other good offensive players. Talk down about the AHL all you want but take a look at Syracuse's team in 2013-14 that Kucherov joined. Brett Connolly, Jonathan Marchessault, Vlad Namestnikov, Cedric Paquette, Yanni Gourde, Nikita Nesterov, etc. And that was the team that was left after rookies Alex Killorn, Tyler Johnson, Richard Panik, Ondrej Palat, Radko Gudas, and others made the Lightning out of training camp.

I don't believe that every player should follow the same path. They don't, and every player is different and might require something that another does not. And there are many positives to playing in a top league like the KHL, and training, practicing, and playing with and against professionals compared to other 17, 18, 19 year olds. Would it be helpful to get more ice time? I think so. I think every NHL GM wants that for their prospects. Would it also be helpful to learn the N.A./NHL game over here? Probably. So, I'm sure all that will be weighed with Groshev about what path is best for him, if he wants to be a NHL player. Both leagues and curcumstances have their pros and cons but putting down the AHL is silly.
3.How big his WJC tole will be depends on how you define big role. Will he be an important player? Yes, he will. Will he be one of the major offensive threats? I doubt it.

That evaluation by Chris Peters is quite accurate.
In the sense that he will play more than he did in the previous tournament, or than it looks like he is playing now on his current team.
 
Last edited:

Vasilevskiy

The cat will be back
Dec 30, 2008
17,820
4,608
Barcelona
Kucherov's time in the Q was not wasted at all. Every player and pathway is different.

Groshev looks to me like a 3rd liner at best, don't think he will ever amount to more than a Leo Komarov in a best case scenario
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269
I am very familiar with Nikita Kucherov's story. The plan originally according to Head Scout Al Murray was for Kucherov to stay and develop in Russia at his own pace. There was no pressure to come over. He had a shoulder injury during the 2012 season and when he came to the Lightning's development camp that summer, testing showed that he needed a shoulder surgery. Either CSKA Moscow disagreed with our doctors or they really just didn't want to pay for it. So Kucherov came over, The Lightning took care of his shoulder, and he found a new playing situation joining his good friend Mikhail Grigorenko in Quebec.

I'm pretty sure Kuch would not only say his time in the Q and AHL helped him improve his game, but it also prepared him to make that big leap into the NHL.

The AHL is a developmental league. Kids need to develop. Arguably, nobody does that better than us among NHL teams. I don't see what an offensive wizard like Kucherov gains from playing 9 minutes a night on a 4th line. In the AHL, he got top minutes, time on special teams, and played with other good offensive players. Talk down about the AHL all you want but take a look at Syracuse's team in 2013-14 that Kucherov joined. Brett Connolly, Jonathan Marchessault, Vlad Namestnikov, Cedric Paquette, Yanni Gourde, Nikita Nesterov, etc. And that was the team that was left after rookies Alex Killorn, Tyler Johnson, Richard Panik, Ondrej Palat, Radko Gudas, and others made the Lightning out of training camp.

I don't believe that every player should follow the same path. They don't, and every player is different and might require something that another does not. And there are many positives to playing in a top league like the KHL, and training, practicing, and playing with and against professionals compared to other 17, 18, 19 year olds. Would it be helpful to get more ice time? I think so. I think every NHL GM wants that for their prospects. Would it also be helpful to learn the N.A./NHL game over here? Probably. So, I'm sure all that will be weighed with Groshev about what path is best for him, if he wants to be a NHL player. Both leagues and curcumstances have their pros and cons but putting down the AHL is silly.

In the sense that he will play more than he did in the previous tournament, or than it looks like he is playing now on his current team.
He would say that. Does not mean that is true. Also you just recite the facts, leaving out the background. He was stuck on the wrong team. There was a bunch of other teams he would benefit from developing on instead. But every case is also personal. My point was Kucherov's story does not apply here. Groshev is in a completely different situation and leaving for NA now would hurt his development significantly. Yes, because no matter how good of an AHL team he would be on it is still worse than the KHL.
 

FinnLightning26

Death and no taxes
Sep 16, 2007
7,165
2,936
Lapland
I have much more faith in our development staff than some shitty KHL team. If it was one the big KHL teams it would be a different story.

Either way, I trust they do what's best for the player.
 

2020 Cup Champions

Formerly Sila v Kucherove
Nov 26, 2013
14,774
4,404
I have much more faith in our development staff than some shitty KHL team. If it was one the big KHL teams it would be a different story.

Either way, I trust they do what's best for the player.
Sadly, it was CSKA Moscow and their lower level team, if I understand the structure correctly.
 

aessi

Registered User
Jan 1, 2015
254
120
Sadly, it was CSKA Moscow and their lower level team, if I understand the structure correctly.

Yeah he mostly played in CSKAs farm team, CSKA itself is big team in KHL but i think they felt he was not that important player for them so they would not pay for the surgery.
 

TheDaysOf 04

[ 2 6 ] [ 4 ]
Jun 23, 2007
52,501
22,359
NJ
He would say that. Does not mean that is true. Also you just recite the facts, leaving out the background. He was stuck on the wrong team. There was a bunch of other teams he would benefit from developing on instead. But every case is also personal. My point was Kucherov's story does not apply here. Groshev is in a completely different situation and leaving for NA now would hurt his development significantly. Yes, because no matter how good of an AHL team he would be on it is still worse than the KHL.
I left out nothing. That was the reason. He had a falling out with GM Sergei Fedorov over a medical issue. It had nothing to do with anything else.

Lightning wing Nikita Kucherov: My All-Star path
Nikita Kucherov is one of the best players in the world, a legitimate NHL MVP candidate. But Kucherov, 24, still has a chip on his shoulder from all those who doubted him back in Russia. He's still burned by CSKA Moscow, his old KHL team, for abandoning him when he needed shoulder surgery as an 18-year old
"My toughest moment was when I had those injuries, the shoulder, and had no money. Back in Russia, (CSKA) threw me into a situation where they said, 'We don't believe you have anything in the shoulder, if you want to do surgery, you have to pay for it yourself.' But at the time, I didn't have much money.

It was tough. Not as a player, but as a person. I felt like, I don't really need them. They used me. At the time, my agent called (Lightning GM) Steve Yzerman. I had just got drafted. I came here a week after I told my agent to call Steve. I'm really happy and blessed that (the Lightning) helped me out, paid for my surgery, even though I was just drafted. I wasn't even thinking to come (to North America) at the time. I'm really grateful."
Like I said, he was never suppose to come over right away. A strong reason some teams stayed away from him at the draft. And maybe it's easy for some to say in hindsight that Kucherov was always going to be a good NHL player, but if that were also the case, GMs wouldn't have passed on him like they did at the draft. Certainly no one saw him being 128 points, NHL MVP good. That's not a natural projection. That's on a player working hard to be better than thought possible.

If there's anything I forgot to add, it was that Kucherov stayed in Canada in the 2013 off season instead of going back to Russia. He got an apartment with 2 other Lightning prospects in Montreal to be closer to the Lightning’s strength and conditioning coach Mark Lambert. Another decision that only aided him.

I respectfully disagree with your stance on the AHL. It's purpose is not to stand toe to toe with The KHL. You go to the KHL to make a career, you go to the AHL to make the NHL. Andrei Vasilevskiy, who was a starter in the KHL and played very well in the World Championships for Russia is a great example of someone who needed time in the AHL. The main reason was to help him adapt to the N.A. game, which is obviously different than the style that is played back home. So it wasn't about playing better or worse competition, just getting more comfortable with a different kind of hockey.

As I said, the AHL is a developmental league. It's primary function is to prepare young players and help them get better - to make the NHL. The KHL is just like the NHL where winning is the main objective. A teams wins and losses determine what moves the GM and head coach make for the betterment of the team. A lot of times those decisions do not necessarily match up with what is best for a young players own personal growth, and that becomes secondary. The Lightning do not have a stake in Nizhnekamsk's hockey team, but they do now in the player Maxim Groshev.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269
I left out nothing. That was the reason. He had a falling out with GM Sergei Fedorov over a medical issue. It had nothing to do with anything else.

Lightning wing Nikita Kucherov: My All-Star path


Like I said, he was never suppose to come over right away. A strong reason some teams stayed away from him at the draft. And maybe it's easy for some to say in hindsight that Kucherov was always going to be a good NHL player, but if that were also the case, GMs wouldn't have passed on him like they did at the draft. Certainly no one saw him being 128 points, NHL MVP good. That's not a natural projection. That's on a player working hard to be better than thought possible.

If there's anything I forgot to add, it was that Kucherov stayed in Canada in the 2013 off season instead of going back to Russia. He got an apartment with 2 other Lightning prospects in Montreal to be closer to the Lightning’s strength and conditioning coach Mark Lambert. Another decision that only aided him.

I respectfully disagree with your stance on the AHL. It's purpose is not to stand toe to toe with The KHL. You go to the KHL to make a career, you go to the AHL to make the NHL. Andrei Vasilevskiy, who was a starter in the KHL and played very well in the World Championships for Russia is a great example of someone who needed time in the AHL. The main reason was to help him adapt to the N.A. game, which is obviously different than the style that is played back home. So it wasn't about playing better or worse competition, just getting more comfortable with a different kind of hockey.

As I said, the AHL is a developmental league. It's primary function is to prepare young players and help them get better - to make the NHL. The KHL is just like the NHL where winning is the main objective. A teams wins and losses determine what moves the GM and head coach make for the betterment of the team. A lot of times those decisions do not necessarily match up with what is best for a young players own personal growth, and that becomes secondary. The Lightning do not have a stake in Nizhnekamsk's hockey team, but they do now in the player Maxim Groshev.
You miss the major point of Groshev's case being completely different. Why do I need to read pages of Kucherov's revelations? I know more about those issues than you ever will. So what?

For Kucherov it might have been the right option to waste time in the AHL at that point. For Groshev is doesn't make any sense.

And nobody accuses the AHL of anything. Stop defending it. It is what it is. There are options and you choose one. And if a player has a chance to play in the KHL instead of the AHL it's always the better choice to play in the KHL.

As for the different kind of hockey... watch the KHL.

P.S. Don't let me AGAIN give you the real and the whole look on Kucherov and how good he was and how dumb NHL GMs were. There is no hindsight involved. Just the best U18 player ever and bunch of NHL morons and their prejudice and ignorance. If they did not see him 128pts good, then it's their fault and inability to do their jobs. In this case scouting.
 

Vasilevskiy

The cat will be back
Dec 30, 2008
17,820
4,608
Barcelona
You miss the major point of Groshev's case being completely different. Why do I need to read pages of Kucherov's revelations? I know more about those issues than you ever will. So what?

For Kucherov it might have been the right option to waste time in the AHL at that point. For Groshev is doesn't make any sense.

And nobody accuses the AHL of anything. Stop defending it. It is what it is. There are options and you choose one. And if a player has a chance to play in the KHL instead of the AHL it's always the better choice to play in the KHL.

As for the different kind of hockey... watch the KHL.

P.S. Don't let me AGAIN give you the real and the whole look on Kucherov and how good he was and how dumb NHL GMs were. There is no hindsight involved. Just the best U18 player ever and bunch of NHL morons and their prejudice and ignorance. If they did not see him 128pts good, then it's their fault and inability to do their jobs. In this case scouting.

Get a grip, dude, we didn't even dish your league
 

GoBoltz56

Brisebois 1st Rounder
Jul 31, 2004
2,118
1,237
Tampa and Michigan
All this Atas person does...literally for years on these boards...is bash north american development leagues and how all russians are ruined if they come. It's the exact same argument over and over and it's the only "contribution" they make in any thread. If you confront them about the Russians who did develop here, they dismiss it. They are very bitter for some reason. Likely because all of the best russian players and prospects leave russia. They are all fine to stay in russia and play for contracts that aren't ever paid out. There is a reason they leave.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoVel and NatoGhost

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->