2020/21 UEFA Nations League

[Savi]

I honestly don't see anything special in Rice either

 

[Jussi]

Finland>France>Sweden.

 

[AB13]

Including Kroos is silly. But I think England's biggest issue is that they don't have an overwhelming collection of CBs and CMs. Rice and Henderson are really the only two standout names in that group to me (although I know some here will want to include Gomez). If Maguire is your best CB, I think you're going to have problems being considered a top contender.

Without a good CB it is tough to compete for any titles, so you are probably right. On paper, their team has enourmous quality though. I would also every contender besides France has glaring holes in key areas ( Central Midfield, Central Defence or at Striker). I don’t think the English CM options are that bad, Rice and Henderson are two elite holding midfielders, while Grealish and Foden are good options as number 10s if they go with a double pivot. A goalscoring, dynamic, box to box midfielder would be nice but central midfield is not a glaring weakness.

 

[AB13]

I honestly don't see anything special in Rice either

Rice is already world class. Extremely strong, amazing defensive reading of the game, completely press resistent in possession, sublime passing and ultra high IQ. He can reach close to prime Sergio Busquets levels.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Rice is already world class. Extremely strong, amazing defensive reading of the game, completely press resistent in possession, sublime passing and ultra high IQ. He can reach close to prime Sergio Busquets levels.

Until he signs with Chelsea I would imagine.

 

[Panteras]

How good is Spain currently? Euro/WC chances?

 

[AB13]

Until he signs with Chelsea I would imagine.

If he joins Chelsea he suddenly becomes shit, yes.

Although I have called Pulisic a future potential Ballon D'or candidate and praised both Abraham and Zyiech a lot, so maybe I am not biased? Just think Werner was a bad signing and that Chilwell for 50 million is horrendously bad considering you could get Reguillon or Tierney for half, and I will be proven right.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

If he joins Chelsea he suddenly becomes shit, yes.

Although I have called Pulisic a future potential Ballon D'or candidate, so maybe I am not biased?

No just incredibly wrong at a remarkable pace.

 

[AB13]

No just incredibly wrong at a remarkable pace.

My track record says otherwise, I have basically been proven right about every " strange" prediction I have made. Here are just a few examples. I predicted Tottenham declining last season because I saw signs of regression, but almost everyone thought they were title contenders. While most people thought Guendouzi was an amazing, 60 million talent, I saw him not cutting it before everyone else ( because of how slow he processed the game and his positional indiscipline). I predicted Werners struggles against teams that play a deep defensive block, while also predicting his success against high pressing teams in the PL, which so far look like great takes.

You guys should listen to me more. I am usually right in the long run.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

We bow to your greatness

 

[cgf]

It’s so absurd that Low is further weakening the side by refusing to call up Muller who has been one of Europe’s best players the past season and a 1/2.

You know how amazing a top 6 would be with Muller playing behind the Werner/Gnabry/Sane trio with Kimmich and Goretzka holding the middle...I mean it doesn’t get any better than that. That’s essentially Bayern Munich only replace Lewandowski with Werner.

When you have THAT kind of talent there’s simply no excuse to be fielding these inept, disinterested, lackadaisical lineups.

Eh, he could get in Havertz' way. And at this point I'd rather focus on developing Havertz than trying to get the last bit out of Müller. Not letting go is already killing us whenever Toni plays and Müller is a vet that we have replacements for.

Tbh if you think Germany has as much talent and depth as France, you need to look again. Nobody thinks that, even the most die hard german fans.

...not yet

but yeah, we're nowhere near as deep in highend talent. Our best 11 might still compare with the top sides with Sanabry, Havertz, Werner, Kimmich & 1 of Goretzka/Gundogan/Brandt in front of a back 4...but then you look to the bench and after whichever of Brandt/LeGo/Gundo don't make the first 11, it falls off quickly with Waldschmidt, Amiri & Neuhaus being the best FW, attacker & midfielder available.

 

[cgf]

I think it is pretty clear Germany have had a drop off in talent, they no longer have a player near the caliber of Özil, Lahm or Muller, but their team arguably isn't worse than Spains on paper. For them to win a world cup, they need better centre backs, and ideally Werner needs to be replaced, he simply isn't good enough when he isn't given space to run in behind. They could also probably do with a creative midfielder. But coaching is the main thing holding them back, they have an extremely good squad. Only France and maybe England have squads I think you could say are clearly better at the moment.

You're overstating the drop off in midfield & attack. Gnabry, Sane & Kimmich are on that Mesut / Müller / Lahm level, Havertz should join that tier very soon (if he's not there already), Werner may never be quite on that level, but he's every bit as good as the Reus's & Klose's of previous generations, while LeGo is pretty top class when he's allowed to push up to play as a late-arriving forward in the final third. Hell even Mr inconsistent Julian Brandt would've upgraded our WC winners as an 8. At it's best, our attack is better than when we won the cup & the midfield should be comparable, they're just nowhere near as deep & used poorly.

It's in defense where there's a big drop off now that we no longer have Hummels & Boateng alongside a prime Neuer & Lahm. I like Süle & Klostermann a lot, Koch's shown some very nice ball skills over this break (as had Max in the previous matches), Rüdiger is a good vet, Gosens is a quality LWB, while Kehrer & Halstenburg are good utility defenders that can do a job as defensive FBs in a back 4 or outside FBs in a back 3...but none of these guys are world class.

That drop off in defense is why dumbass has had to try so many back 3 shapes despite not having someone to play RWB in that formation, and why I think our best bet (like in 2014) is to copy Pep & go with a back 4 featuring Halstenburg & Klostermann playing like inverted FBs...not push too far forward & shifting inside to give Kimmich more support while freeing an attacking 5 of Gnabry, Sane, Havertz, Werner & Brandt/LeGo, to run wild...around Süle & Koch.

Werner/Havertz
Sane - Havertz/LeGo - Brandt/LeGo - Gnabry
Kimmich
Halstenburg - Süle - Koch - Klostermann
ter Stegen​

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Not sure what's more f***ed up, Germany losing 6-0 or Kovacic scoring a brace

Thinking more, it's definitely the latter

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yup. All we can do is hope that Jogi can copy Flick's Bayern or somehow stumble into the right lineup/structure. Which wouldn't be that hard if he gave up on playing Toni's corpse & we had an attacking right back. Our best 11 would actually be pretty damn good, but alas I don't expect to see us hitting the tourney with some iteration of...

Sane - Werner/Havertz - Gnabry
Brandt/LeGo - Havertz/LeGo
Kimmich
Halstenburg* - Süle - Koch - Klostermann*
MAtS

*Kehrer
----------------------------------------------
Havertz/Werner
Gnabry/Brandt - Sane/Havertz
Gosens - Kimmich - Gundo/LeGo - _____
Halstenburg* - Süle - Klostermann*
MAtS

* Kehrer/Can
----------------------------------------------
Gnabry/Werner - Sane/Havertz
Gosens - Brandt/LeGo - Havertz/LeGo - _____
Kimmich
Halstenburg* - Süle - Klostermann*
MAtS

* Kehrer/Can​

I like the first lineup, but Kehrer over Koch. I think the way to go is Havertz splitting time in midfield with Brandt. Both are a little inconsistent right now, so they can rotate. Goretzka has to be a starter right now, in my opinion. I agree with the rest. It’s a pretty good team. Not as good as what it was at its best, but on the rise again after a few weaker age groups. Germany should still, at a minimum, not being destroyed by Spain, a country whose produced less talent than Germany since their own golden generation.

How close do you think Neuhaus is to the best XI?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

England aren't better lol

It’s close. I think in a few years it’ll be clear. England’s stars are younger. Germany has very little from around 1997-2002/3. Players those ages are still young and some will emerge, but if they were as good as usual, we’d have seen more than we have by now.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Germany’s CM is very deep. That’s not the area of concern, in my opinion. Former world class players like Gundogan and Kroos are going to be pushed out soon by their midfield crop. Someone like Neuhaus is on the rise, Dahoud is even having a resurgence. Brandt struggles to get minutes, as does Can. All these guys are good players in their early/mid 20’s. Their best player, Kimmich, anchors the midfield. Goretzka is really close to world class right now. And everyone’s favorite young player, Havertz, is part of that crop.

Midfield is not an issue. Their problems are in defense and CF depth.

Edit: I forgot about Demirbay. One of my favorite players in the Bundesliga.

 

[Evilo]

Guendouzi is not good because he left Arsenal?
Somebody should see what he did to give Frances U21 the top of the group two days ago in ET.
He should be Arsenal's top midfielder if Arsenal did anything else but park the bus and pray for a counter.

 

[cgf]

I like the first lineup, but Kehrer over Koch. I think the way to go is Havertz splitting time in midfield with Brandt. Both are a little inconsistent right now, so they can rotate. Goretzka has to be a starter right now, in my opinion. I agree with the rest. It’s a pretty good team. Not as good as what it was at its best, but on the rise again after a few weaker age groups. Germany should still, at a minimum, not being destroyed by Spain, a country whose produced less talent than Germany since their own golden generation.

How close do you think Neuhaus is to the best XI?

If I was to replace Koch it'd be Rüdiger or Klostermann, but I really liked Koch's passing over this break and would like to see him get a run in that spot...especially if we're using our FBs defensively.

Kai's consistency doesn't bother me at all. He's figuring out the EPL atm, so he's not in the form he was after the lockdown, but that's to be expected from any young player changing leagues. As for Brandt v LeGo, either would work, but I'd prefer Brandt in that setup. With defensive FBs & a 6 like Kimmich, having the extra playmaking behind the front three would help us more than LeGo's greater goal-threat & physicality.


I don't mind Neuhaus deputizing for Kimmich...would much rather him than Kroos...but he is a clear step down from LeGo / Gundo / Brandt & has been disappointing in the final third this season.

 

[AB13]

Guendouzi is not good because he left Arsenal?
Somebody should see what he did to give Frances U21 the top of the group two days ago in ET.
He should be Arsenal's top midfielder if Arsenal did anything else but park the bus and pray for a counter.

Guendouzi has been shit for Arsenal for very long, basically the entirely of last season ( and I was alone in seeing his huge flaws the season before when he got all of the "new youngster hype"). He was not near the level of Xhaka, Torreira and Ceballos, not even close, and that says a lot. Even Elneny is playing better than Guendouzi did. U21 performances don’t change anything, if U21 performances mattered Nketiah would be the bloody GOAT.

 

[AB13]

You're overstating the drop off in midfield & attack. Gnabry, Sane & Kimmich are on that Mesut / Müller / Lahm level, Havertz should join that tier very soon (if he's not there already), Werner may never be quite on that level, but he's every bit as good as the Reus's & Klose's of previous generations, while LeGo is pretty top class when he's allowed to push up to play as a late-arriving forward in the final third. Hell even Mr inconsistent Julian Brandt would've upgraded our WC winners as an 8. At it's best, our attack is better than when we won the cup & the midfield should be comparable, they're just nowhere near as deep & used poorly.

It's in defense where there's a big drop off now that we no longer have Hummels & Boateng alongside a prime Neuer & Lahm. I like Süle & Klostermann a lot, Koch's shown some very nice ball skills over this break (as had Max in the previous matches), Rüdiger is a good vet, Gosens is a quality LWB, while Kehrer & Halstenburg are good utility defenders that can do a job as defensive FBs in a back 4 or outside FBs in a back 3...but none of these guys are world class.

That drop off in defense is why dumbass has had to try so many back 3 shapes despite not having someone to play RWB in that formation, and why I think our best bet (like in 2014) is to copy Pep & go with a back 4 featuring Halstenburg & Klostermann playing like inverted FBs...not push too far forward & shifting inside to give Kimmich more support while freeing an attacking 5 of Gnabry, Sane, Havertz, Werner & Brandt/LeGo, to run wild...around Süle & Koch.

Werner/Havertz
Sane - Havertz/LeGo - Brandt/LeGo - Gnabry
Kimmich
Halstenburg - Süle - Koch - Klostermann
ter Stegen​

I don't even think Havertz is even close to being in the Reus/Klose tier ( I would take Brandt over Havertz at the moment, obviously not going forward though). I am not sure about the other players you mentioned being quite as good as Özil, Lahm and Muller, although I think Sane, Gnabry and Kimmich maybe can reach that level if they improve a lot over the next few years, probably not Özil levels, but Muller and Lahm levels at least.

I like your lineup a lot though, it could definately win the euros still. And there seems to be plenty of high potential Bundesliga youngsters that will only make you even stronger and help Germany win titles ( especially Wirtz, seen him play one half but he looks incredible with great stats). Löw was a good coach before 2016, so what has happened is a surprise, but change coach and you will obviously do better.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Hope Denmark can play a somewhat ok game tonight.

Awful game against Iceland, hope the coach uses more players from the game against Sweden.

Especially up front, as Braithwaite and Poulsen do NOT work under Hjulmand.

Belgium, are obviously the better side, but Denmark have mentioned they will not sit back.

Not sitting back is what got them killed ny Belgium at home.
Think both BEL goals were counter attacks.

So much strength and speed on that team, deadly counterattacks.

Also, please no Vestergaard, he is good, but Damn he lacks pace.

Here is hoping Mæhle plays instead og Stryger Larsen.

 

[Evilo]

Guendouzi has been shit for Arsenal for very long, basically the entirely of last season ( and I was alone in seeing his huge flaws the season before when he got all of the "new youngster hype"). He was not near the level of Xhaka, Torreira and Ceballos, not even close, and that says a lot. Even Elneny is playing better than Guendouzi did. U21 performancekonstnären don’t change anything, if U21 performances mattered Nketiah would be the bloody GOAT.

That's all BS and everyone knows it.

 

[AB13]

That's all BS and everyone knows it.

Every person who has watched Arsenal knows that Guendouzi is a poor footballer with a toxic attitude. One of the worst midfielders I have seen play for us regularly, maybe the worst.

 

[Evilo]

Everyone who has watched Arsenal knows it's not true. And you were denied back then by your fellow Arsenal fans. No use trying to rewrite history. Use the search feature if you want.
As for the attitude, it could be, we don't know and you certainly don't. The only character issue on the pitch that was visible was his infamous "I'll defend my teammates", something Arsenal clearly lacks.
So you're pulling things out of your ass and act like they're undisputed truths.
Guendouzi was Arsenal's best MF under Emery. He wasn't under Arteta because he is not made to park the bus. Enjoy your bus drivers now.

 

[AB13]

I hate Artetas tactics and he does not play to our strengths, but Emery was also really bad. Torreira, Xhaka and Ceballos were all clearly better than Guendouzi under Emery too though. Guendouzi is not much of a talent, he has no standout abilities. He will probably never be good enough to play UCL football.