Speculation: 2020-21 Stars Roster Speculation and Discussion Part II

[serp]

This needs to be repeated ad nauseum. If Dallas faced the 2021 version of Talbot backstopping Minnie, they'd probably be done in round 1. He was atrocious against us last playoffs.

He was terrible in game 6 and game 2 . He also won them 2 games ( one in a shutout the Stars dominated most of the game ) and kept another one really close . He numbers this year aren't that different from last season against us .

 

[Sports2]

Imagine hating hockey so much you look back on your finals run to pick it apart

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

He was terrible in game 6 and game 2 . He also won them 2 games ( one in a shutout the Stars dominated most of the game ) and kept another one really close . He numbers this year aren't that different from last season against us .

Yes, and Z HockeyFan took me to task for not believing his "fact based" postitions. As if a wild hypothetical about what the 2015-16 Stars might have done against a 2021 version of a goalie in a different system, as well as saying that had that goalie been playing that well in 2020, we couldn't have managed one more win out of two games to win that series in 7 games, even though we were slightly favored is a fact to him. Huh?

Agree with Sportswastaken. Some here look back on the finals run to pick it apart, as if the Stars didn't deserve what they got. While I agree they caught a break against the Avs, their entire run wasn't just due to bad goalies. And, while I was skeptical of them winning every round, I did manage to enjoy the run. Statistically, it might not happen again in my lifetime, so why not enjoy the ride?

I hope the negative Nellie's around here don't translate their Stars negativity to real life. I fear they would be lousy spouses, friends, or co-workers if they picked people apart in the real world like they do here. I doubt they do, because something about the internet makes some folks brave or foolhardy, or both.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Run was a blessing and a curse. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and in a vacuum, it was a really pleasant surprise. It was great to see the Stars actually playing well and riding a meteoric hot streak to the cup finals. Anytime the Stars can beat the Avalanche is always a plus, and most series we've ever had with the Avalanche has been an instant classic (I try not to remember the Turco, Morrow years). It was good seeing Jamie Benn looking revitalized, and paradoxically, earning his contract during a time where he wasn't even being paid. I think that team that lost to St. Louis had a better shot at winning it all and was a legit contender, but this team was the one that broke through...

... which is why it's cursed. It probably bought our crappy front office more time. Where it was widely thought that Nill was on the hotseat to start last season, he's probably going to at least go through his contract now. COVID saved his tenure as Stars GM. I can't predict what would have happened, but the stars were in the middle of a pretty incredible losing streak, and were about to fall out of a sure playoff spot before the season stopped. It saved him again this year because of all the 'built in excuses'. I'll give him the snowstorm, but I'm amazed there wasn't more critical coverage on how the stars had a team-wide outbreak before the season even started. Sounds like some pretty irresponsible shit between the players, and possibly the staff. They get no sympathy from me for that, and neither does Nill for not running a tight enough ship from stopping the team from doing an obviously stupid thing.

TLDR; the cup run (and COVID) saved Nill's ass. We'd probably have a new GM, new coach, and hopefully some scouting staff turnover if not for that run.

 

[M88K]

Yes, and Z HockeyFan took me to task for not believing his "fact based" postitions. As if a wild hypothetical about what the 2015-16 Stars might have done against a 2021 version of a goalie in a different system, as well as saying that had that goalie been playing that well in 2020, we couldn't have managed one more win out of two games to win that series in 7 games, even though we were slightly favored is a fact to him. Huh?

Agree with Sportswastaken. Some here look back on the finals run to pick it apart, as if the Stars didn't deserve what they got. While I agree they caught a break against the Avs, their entire run wasn't just due to bad goalies. And, while I was skeptical of them winning every round, I did manage to enjoy the run. Statistically, it might not happen again in my lifetime, so why not enjoy the ride?

I hope the negative Nellie's around here don't translate their Stars negativity to real life. I fear they would be lousy spouses, friends, or co-workers if they picked people apart in the real world like they do here. I doubt they do, because something about the internet makes some folks brave or foolhardy, or both.

I won't speak for the bad goaltending thing because that isn't my belief either.
But I'll address the other points as a "detractor".

The reason most of us pick it apart is because people, yourself included, and management apparently too.
Are pointing to this fluke run as the new standard for the team.
People have thrown around "contender" as a descriptor for this team even.
The team is still just a wildcard team.
Management came out and said that they were keeping the status quo, despite quite literally getting smacked around in the SCF by tampa, because...2 wins away.
Everyone could see we need offensive help. And better bottom 6 talents.
We kept the losers, like Cogliano, who was a healthy scratch in the most important game of the season (gm7 against the avs)
Added players that hadn't played in the nhl in years to supplement our "depth".
Then got to watch teams routinely skate circles around us this year.
We got to hear that our career loser coach was safe no matter how embarassing some of the games/loses were. He was given carte blanche because hey 2wins from a cup.
We got to see our idiot gm, sorry career average gm, whos hampered the team with bad contracts, bad drafting and poor coaching choices. Lay all the blame for poor performances on the players because they didn't "play the right way"
Yes a roster with Justin Dowling, Tanner Kero, Joel L'Esperance, Rhett Gardner, nick Caamano, and andrew cogliano some of which were regularly utilized on the pp wasn't devoid of talent, or suffering from poor coaching. They just didn't pay the right way.

We got some canned bs about how Seguin, Bishop and radulov were "our deadline pickups" though being fair that may not have cane from anyone in the organization... I'm not going to look for the sources.

We got to watch a team still inexplicable in the PO hunt, though at a miniscule level, sit still at the deadline, only to get the
"Haha 2 of these deadline adds are done for the whole year now"
Knowing full well those 2 are out the full year prior to the deadline instead of trying add something or trying to sell off some ufas like Cogliano/comeau, even for a lowly 5th. Or trying to sell Oleksiak off for something of value.
We hung onto everyone, with the basic assumption that our idiot gm likely plans to bring everyone back.
Hey that's OK, at least the young guys will get to play some more now that the towel has been thrown in, and we'll shut down Hintz so he can get the surgery he needs... nope just kidding here's 15 minutes a night of cogliano, and comeau because loser coach got to loser coach. Oh and hintz roulette too, because very slim chance at POs still.

Everyone around us last year got better, even Colorado who was already ahead of us, got better.
Not us. We kept the same lineup, i mean what else could we do, nill f***ed the cap so much that we had to use Ltir from day 1, just to put below NHL quality players in the lineup to have a full roster.

But 2 wins away, in a weird year, with a weird format that none of us likely live to see again. No reason to make changes.
I mean who could have seen injuries to radulov and Hintz, except for everyone who was talking about how the condensed schedule was going to skyrocket injuries, but you know some unforeseeable phenomenon by dallas management. Never mind knowing from day 1 our #1 center and #1goalie would miss most if not all of the season.

We can enjoy the actual PO run, but we have to be realistic about what it is, a fluke.
The team over-achieved, work still needs to be done on this roster, but with dipshit in charge you know nothing will.
So yes a year later i can be disappointed overall by the scf run, because it bought a loser front office more time, and gave those same people a misguided sense that this team is right there with Tampa and Colorado.

 

[kabidjan18]

Imagine hating hockey so much you look back on your finals run to pick it apart

No one hates the Stars more than "Stars fans"

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

He was terrible in game 6 and game 2 . He also won them 2 games ( one in a shutout the Stars dominated most of the game ) and kept another one really close . He numbers this year aren't that different from last season against us .

When I made that post, it was the end of game 6 vs VGK, with a good chance that Wild could upset. When you compare 6 games vs Dallas last year and 6 games vs VGK this year, it is 91.26% SVP (18 goals on 206 shots, which arguably could've been worse if he weren't pulled after goal 4) vs 93.65% SVP (12 goals on 189 shots), respectively.

But...I do concede the point. At the end of each of the series, Talbot ended up having similar numbers.

And that still doesn't change that the Stars faced a banged up Colorado team and friggin Francouz and his 89.2 SVP% and and nearly got eliminated.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Imagine hating hockey so much you look back on your finals run to pick it apart

I don't hate hockey.

But imagine loving mediocrity so much that it makes you put words in people's mouths.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Yes, and Z HockeyFan took me to task for not believing his "fact based" postitions. As if a wild hypothetical about what the 2015-16 Stars might have done against a 2021 version of a goalie in a different system, as well as saying that had that goalie been playing that well in 2020, we couldn't have managed one more win out of two games to win that series in 7 games, even though we were slightly favored is a fact to him. Huh?

Agree with Sportswastaken. Some here look back on the finals run to pick it apart, as if the Stars didn't deserve what they got. While I agree they caught a break against the Avs, their entire run wasn't just due to bad goalies. And, while I was skeptical of them winning every round, I did manage to enjoy the run. Statistically, it might not happen again in my lifetime, so why not enjoy the ride?

I hope the negative Nellie's around here don't translate their Stars negativity to real life. I fear they would be lousy spouses, friends, or co-workers if they picked people apart in the real world like they do here. I doubt they do, because something about the internet makes some folks brave or foolhardy, or both.

Sanctimonious bullshit.

Best to ignore you if your response to criticism is ad hominems.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Z,

I know I am getting a bit snarky with you, and there is no real reason for it. Apologies in arrears. But, if you were passing a three part hypothetical as one of your "fact based" rebuttals, I had to call you out on that. It is frankly BS, pure and simple.

But, I won't any more. The fact is (strangely) is that when we are talking about the Stars, there are no facts, just strong opinions. The arguments can go endlessly.....and often do. And, we really aren't all that far apart in our thinking about where the team is. We can't get past the differences to even see that.

Cheers.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I won't speak for the bad goaltending thing because that isn't my belief either.
But I'll address the other points as a "detractor".

The reason most of us pick it apart is because people, yourself included, and management apparently too.
Are pointing to this fluke run as the new standard for the team.
People have thrown around "contender" as a descriptor for this team even.
The team is still just a wildcard team.
Management came out and said that they were keeping the status quo, despite quite literally getting smacked around in the SCF by tampa, because...2 wins away.
Everyone could see we need offensive help. And better bottom 6 talents.
We kept the losers, like Cogliano, who was a healthy scratch in the most important game of the season (gm7 against the avs)
Added players that hadn't played in the nhl in years to supplement our "depth".
Then got to watch teams routinely skate circles around us this year.
We got to hear that our career loser coach was safe no matter how embarassing some of the games/loses were. He was given carte blanche because hey 2wins from a cup.
We got to see our idiot gm, sorry career average gm, whos hampered the team with bad contracts, bad drafting and poor coaching choices. Lay all the blame for poor performances on the players because they didn't "play the right way"
Yes a roster with Justin Dowling, Tanner Kero, Joel L'Esperance, Rhett Gardner, nick Caamano, and andrew cogliano some of which were regularly utilized on the pp wasn't devoid of talent, or suffering from poor coaching. They just didn't pay the right way.

We got some canned bs about how Seguin, Bishop and radulov were "our deadline pickups" though being fair that may not have cane from anyone in the organization... I'm not going to look for the sources.

We got to watch a team still inexplicable in the PO hunt, though at a miniscule level, sit still at the deadline, only to get the
"Haha 2 of these deadline adds are done for the whole year now"
Knowing full well those 2 are out the full year prior to the deadline instead of trying add something or trying to sell off some ufas like Cogliano/comeau, even for a lowly 5th. Or trying to sell Oleksiak off for something of value.
We hung onto everyone, with the basic assumption that our idiot gm likely plans to bring everyone back.
Hey that's OK, at least the young guys will get to play some more now that the towel has been thrown in, and we'll shut down Hintz so he can get the surgery he needs... nope just kidding here's 15 minutes a night of cogliano, and comeau because loser coach got to loser coach. Oh and hintz roulette too, because very slim chance at POs still.

Everyone around us last year got better, even Colorado who was already ahead of us, got better.
Not us. We kept the same lineup, i mean what else could we do, nill f***ed the cap so much that we had to use Ltir from day 1, just to put below NHL quality players in the lineup to have a full roster.

But 2 wins away, in a weird year, with a weird format that none of us likely live to see again. No reason to make changes.
I mean who could have seen injuries to radulov and Hintz, except for everyone who was talking about how the condensed schedule was going to skyrocket injuries, but you know some unforeseeable phenomenon by dallas management. Never mind knowing from day 1 our #1 center and #1goalie would miss most if not all of the season.

We can enjoy the actual PO run, but we have to be realistic about what it is, a fluke.
The team over-achieved, work still needs to be done on this roster, but with dipshit in charge you know nothing will.
So yes a year later i can be disappointed overall by the scf run, because it bought a loser front office more time, and gave those same people a misguided sense that this team is right there with Tampa and Colorado.

No Cogs,

Much of what you say is true, but with an overly, IMHO, negative twist.

Nill has said he was going to build a team that could compete every year, rather than go all in for one year, although some say that is exactly where he went wrong, building for the last two years or so of Jamie Benn's productive years.

Basically, he is following the general plan of building a top ten team, which can, if it gets hot at the right time. Like a lot of teams do, and which, save a few lotto picks (go Stars lottery ball tonight!) is about all most teams can do, realistically. There are a few select teams, like Boston and TB, who seem to rebuild on the fly continuously and are annually seen as top 4-6 contenders. The Stars aren't there and we want them to be.

So, big picture, everyone is nearly on the same page. I just get tired of fans who always see the negative. Nill messed up with this draft pick or not. He signed Comeau and traded for Cogs, both of which seemed like an upgrade to his personnel at the time. (Comeau for Roussell, and Cogs for Shore were both upgrades, as was Demers for Dillon). Getting Bishop, Dobby, Rads, etc. just to name a few more recent ones are all good moves to the top end. Even getting Jamie O back was a pretty good deal, a top 4 D for a 4th. Not quite Seguin level.

But, we could go on. I see them as a top 10-12 team over the last few years, give or take at different points, you see them as somewhere between 14th and 18th, i.e., just inside the playoff bubble every year. That isn't true for the two previous years. When Z said a certain post should be quoted ad nasueum, the facts in it were partially wrong. The Stars didn't struggle to make the playoffs in either of those years. Specifically, in 2020, they struggled to maintain the 4th seed to get home ice, which didn't even turn out to be that big an advantage. However, will agree that under Nill, the Stars average division finish is 4.5, averaging just out of the playoff race.

Even more than that, I don't see how a new coach this year, and probably even next is going to improve the on ice results at least immediately, and there are no guarantees the next GM will draft better than Nill's 7 overall and 14th in top talent. That, of course, is also a hypothetical, but it is at least as reasonable as yours or Z's. We'll never know. So, sorry for all the times we have even slightly crossed swords, its not how we should interact among Stars fans. Save that for the Oiler or Avs fans who come here on occasion.

Cheers.

 

[Sports2]

I won't speak for the bad goaltending thing because that isn't my belief either.
But I'll address the other points as a "detractor".

The reason most of us pick it apart is because people, yourself included, and management apparently too.
Are pointing to this fluke run as the new standard for the team.
People have thrown around "contender" as a descriptor for this team even.
The team is still just a wildcard team.
Management came out and said that they were keeping the status quo, despite quite literally getting smacked around in the SCF by tampa, because...2 wins away.
Everyone could see we need offensive help. And better bottom 6 talents.
We kept the losers, like Cogliano, who was a healthy scratch in the most important game of the season (gm7 against the avs)
Added players that hadn't played in the nhl in years to supplement our "depth".
Then got to watch teams routinely skate circles around us this year.
We got to hear that our career loser coach was safe no matter how embarassing some of the games/loses were. He was given carte blanche because hey 2wins from a cup.
We got to see our idiot gm, sorry career average gm, whos hampered the team with bad contracts, bad drafting and poor coaching choices. Lay all the blame for poor performances on the players because they didn't "play the right way"
Yes a roster with Justin Dowling, Tanner Kero, Joel L'Esperance, Rhett Gardner, nick Caamano, and andrew cogliano some of which were regularly utilized on the pp wasn't devoid of talent, or suffering from poor coaching. They just didn't pay the right way.

We got some canned bs about how Seguin, Bishop and radulov were "our deadline pickups" though being fair that may not have cane from anyone in the organization... I'm not going to look for the sources.

We got to watch a team still inexplicable in the PO hunt, though at a miniscule level, sit still at the deadline, only to get the
"Haha 2 of these deadline adds are done for the whole year now"
Knowing full well those 2 are out the full year prior to the deadline instead of trying add something or trying to sell off some ufas like Cogliano/comeau, even for a lowly 5th. Or trying to sell Oleksiak off for something of value.
We hung onto everyone, with the basic assumption that our idiot gm likely plans to bring everyone back.
Hey that's OK, at least the young guys will get to play some more now that the towel has been thrown in, and we'll shut down Hintz so he can get the surgery he needs... nope just kidding here's 15 minutes a night of cogliano, and comeau because loser coach got to loser coach. Oh and hintz roulette too, because very slim chance at POs still.

Everyone around us last year got better, even Colorado who was already ahead of us, got better.
Not us. We kept the same lineup, i mean what else could we do, nill f***ed the cap so much that we had to use Ltir from day 1, just to put below NHL quality players in the lineup to have a full roster.

But 2 wins away, in a weird year, with a weird format that none of us likely live to see again. No reason to make changes.
I mean who could have seen injuries to radulov and Hintz, except for everyone who was talking about how the condensed schedule was going to skyrocket injuries, but you know some unforeseeable phenomenon by dallas management. Never mind knowing from day 1 our #1 center and #1goalie would miss most if not all of the season.

We can enjoy the actual PO run, but we have to be realistic about what it is, a fluke.
The team over-achieved, work still needs to be done on this roster, but with dipshit in charge you know nothing will.
So yes a year later i can be disappointed overall by the scf run, because it bought a loser front office more time, and gave those same people a misguided sense that this team is right there with Tampa and Colorado.

Tampa and Colorado have the best players in the world on them and you're upset because the Stars aren't on their level? Nill is the only reason the Stars can sniff the level you're complaining about not being at. The Calgary series was a make or break moment and they answered but you're acting like they didn't. And you're calling that run a fluke like they've even had a chance to prove it wasn't like this season wasn't a clusterf***. You hate the front office so much you're dragging the team.

 

[kabidjan18]

I'm really thankful that it seems all the folks in the Stars organization, from the interviews I've seen, whether players or staff, are not heeding the waxing of so-called Stars fans.

We get it. You wish the Stars were more flashy. You probably were devastated when we beat the Avs last year. And heartbroken that we made the finals. Because if a team that played your preferred style was missing their top scoring forward from the finals run season, their number 3 scoring forward, and the highest paid goalie on their payroll for most or all of the season due to injuries, you wouldn't be arguing for them to ship out big contracts and blow up the front office. But you dont like our game so you want all sorts of changes to be made. I'm glad the organization seems to hold the same standard for our club that you hold for the clubs you like.

 

[David Castillo]

I'm really thankful that it seems all the folks in the Stars organization, from the interviews I've seen, whether players or staff, are not heeding the waxing of so-called Stars fans.

We get it. You wish the Stars were more flashy. You probably were devastated when we beat the Avs last year. And heartbroken that we made the finals. Because if a team that played your preferred style was missing their top scoring forward from the finals run season, their number 3 scoring forward, and the highest paid goalie on their payroll for most or all of the season due to injuries, you wouldn't be arguing for them to ship out big contracts and blow up the front office. But you dont like our game so you want all sorts of changes to be made. I'm glad the organization seems to hold the same standard for our club that you hold for the clubs you like.

If Dallas gets to use the injury excuse, then you agree that Dallas only beat Colorado because goaltending injuries led to a once-in-a-lifetime hat trick from a bottom six forward, correct?

 

[BfantZ]

If Dallas gets to use the injury excuse, then you agree that Dallas only beat Colorado because goaltending injuries led to a once-in-a-lifetime hat trick from a bottom six forward, correct?

Dallas was the better team in that series regardless of that game . Bad goaltending is why the stars couldn’t close it out earlier .

 

[Troy McClure]

Even if the Stars lost to Calgary in the first round of the bubble leading to a new GM and coach, the roster would have looked essentially identical to what the Stars rolled out this season. Because of the contracts in place and the guys on IR, nothing would have changed during the offseason or at the deadline.

 

[BeaverSports]

I don’t know, I would say the winner of the Central probably is going to be very competitive in the final four and the top teams were pretty tight. The Stars lost 19 one-goal games this year in that division. If they won a few, I think they’d give most teams a series. They were a good 5-on-5 team.

Many of those games were without arguably the team’s two most proven scorers and its top goaltender.You also had lingering injuries to both Hintz and Faksa that hit an important position all year, the least rest last summer and the most condensed schedule, likely with some brutal travel compared to many teams. All those factors contributed.

Arguably there could’ve been better depth on the bottom end to cover the injuries, but I don’t think this is a terrible team and I don’t believe it needs to be ripped apart. We’re starting to see more homegrown talent pan out and there will be some cap room to help with depth. This team can compete.

 

[Zapp]

Imagine hating hockey so much you look back on your finals run to pick it apart

imagine signing up for a hockey forum and expecting anything different


If this shit bothers you guys let me help you find the Canadian team threads. I’m sure you’ll have a much better time

 

[kabidjan18]

If Dallas gets to use the injury excuse, then you agree that Dallas only beat Colorado because goaltending injuries led to a once-in-a-lifetime hat trick from a bottom six forward, correct?

I don't know if you noticed, but no one, myself included, was calling for heads to roll in Colorado after the Dallas series. No one was arguing that Colorado's first round win was a fluke because of the Dallas series.

Injuries happen, they're a part of the game. Both sides had injured players in that series. It's a consistent perspective to say that neither Dallas nor Colorado needed some big shakeup after the course of events, in which at varying times both teams have had significant injuries. It's a dual standard to say that one is excusable and explicable as a fluke due to injuries but the other team needs to blow things up.

 

[Captain Awesome]

The thing I don't really understand, is there's a contingent of people here who think a lot of us are overly negative. That's fine, but I don't really see what they're arguing for. What is your stance? That you were utterly unsurprised the Stars made a cup run because you think that the team is a top 5 team in the league and a contender every single year? Top 10?

All I really want is a front office that is not satisfied with mediocrity. When Nill got here, he acquired Spezza and Seguin using the spare parts we had lying around. We built this offensive juggernaut that was lacking in defense. We got beat by St. Louis and overreacted and became overly defensive. It's basically the same problem in a different direction. It has been 8 years since Nill became our GM. We've made the playoffs 50% of the time. We've had 4 coaches.

Our first round picks have been Nichushkin, Dickinson, Honka, Gurianov, Tufte, Heiskanen, Oettinger, Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque. Hintz and Robertson are probably the best picks we've made during that time. Heiskanen is basically a gimme. We have drafted zero impact players after the first two rounds. If we assume Oettinger continues on his current trajectory and if we don't absolutely ruin Gurianov, along with Heiskanen, maybe we get to three. I'll hold judgement on Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque for now. It's fair to say we can be optimistic about Harley, and Borque is definitely headed in the right direction, I wouldn't bet money on Dellandrea turning into a top 6 forward, but I think that will depend on how well the Stars can develop him.

Our big free agent signings have been good, but we've had to make up for our crap drafting by signing a lot of bottom 6 players to semi-expensive contracts. The Oleksiak trade (2019) was very good for the value, before that you have to go back to 2017 for the Bishop and Patrick Eaves (for a 1st from Anaheim), and 2015 for the Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns trade. It's been a really long time since Nill actually made a big, positive move like he did in our early days.

We could probably sit here and dissect his free agent signings and trades some more. But what I see is a team that won't pick a direction and stick with it, that hasn't drafted well enough that they're cap strapped because they have to trade for guys like Cogliano and sign Comeau. More importantly, the results are that after 8 years and spending to the cap, this team still can't consistently make it to the playoffs. That's a pretty low bar, to be honest. I think 8 years is plenty enough time to evaluate what kind of GM Jim Nill is, and that it's probably not one good enough to win us a cup. On a subjective note, I generally dislike what he values in a player. He cares more about 'character' and 'grit', and McDonell has been obsessed with size in the draft. Colorado and Tampa care about skill and hockey IQ. So does Chicago. So did Detroit, even during the dead puck era. Good teams are made of players that are good at hockey.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

The thing I don't really understand, is there's a contingent of people here who think a lot of us are overly negative. That's fine, but I don't really see what they're arguing for. What is your stance? That you were utterly unsurprised the Stars made a cup run because you think that the team is a top 5 team in the league and a contender every single year? Top 10?

All I really want is a front office that is not satisfied with mediocrity. When Nill got here, he acquired Spezza and Seguin using the spare parts we had lying around. We built this offensive juggernaut that was lacking in defense. We got beat by St. Louis and overreacted and became overly defensive. It's basically the same problem in a different direction. It has been 8 years since Nill became our GM. We've made the playoffs 50% of the time. We've had 4 coaches.

Our first round picks have been Nichushkin, Dickinson, Honka, Gurianov, Tufte, Heiskanen, Oettinger, Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque. Hintz and Robertson are probably the best picks we've made during that time. Heiskanen is basically a gimme. We have drafted zero impact players after the first two rounds. If we assume Oettinger continues on his current trajectory and if we don't absolutely ruin Gurianov, along with Heiskanen, maybe we get to three. I'll hold judgement on Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque for now. It's fair to say we can be optimistic about Harley, and Borque is definitely headed in the right direction, I wouldn't bet money on Dellandrea turning into a top 6 forward, but I think that will depend on how well the Stars can develop him.

Our big free agent signings have been good, but we've had to make up for our crap drafting by signing a lot of bottom 6 players to semi-expensive contracts. The Oleksiak trade (2019) was very good for the value, before that you have to go back to 2017 for the Bishop and Patrick Eaves (for a 1st from Anaheim), and 2015 for the Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns trade. It's been a really long time since Nill actually made a big, positive move like he did in our early days.

We could probably sit here and dissect his free agent signings and trades some more. But what I see is a team that won't pick a direction and stick with it, that hasn't drafted well enough that they're cap strapped because they have to trade for guys like Cogliano and sign Comeau. More importantly, the results are that after 8 years and spending to the cap, this team still can't consistently make it to the playoffs. That's a pretty low bar, to be honest. I think 8 years is plenty enough time to evaluate what kind of GM Jim Nill is, and that it's probably not one good enough to win us a cup. On a subjective note, I generally dislike what he values in a player. He cares more about 'character' and 'grit', and McDonell has been obsessed with size in the draft. Colorado and Tampa care about skill and hockey IQ. So does Chicago. So did Detroit, even during the dead puck era. Good teams are made of players that are good at hockey.

I think that's the bottom-line. Let alone win a cup, he can't even get this team to be a consistent playoff team, and it's those reactionary approaches to small sample sized events that has led them to this point.

 

[eartotheground]

The thing I don't really understand, is there's a contingent of people here who think a lot of us are overly negative. That's fine, but I don't really see what they're arguing for. What is your stance? That you were utterly unsurprised the Stars made a cup run because you think that the team is a top 5 team in the league and a contender every single year? Top 10?

All I really want is a front office that is not satisfied with mediocrity. When Nill got here, he acquired Spezza and Seguin using the spare parts we had lying around. We built this offensive juggernaut that was lacking in defense. We got beat by St. Louis and overreacted and became overly defensive. It's basically the same problem in a different direction. It has been 8 years since Nill became our GM. We've made the playoffs 50% of the time. We've had 4 coaches.

Our first round picks have been Nichushkin, Dickinson, Honka, Gurianov, Tufte, Heiskanen, Oettinger, Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque. Hintz and Robertson are probably the best picks we've made during that time. Heiskanen is basically a gimme. We have drafted zero impact players after the first two rounds. If we assume Oettinger continues on his current trajectory and if we don't absolutely ruin Gurianov, along with Heiskanen, maybe we get to three. I'll hold judgement on Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque for now. It's fair to say we can be optimistic about Harley, and Borque is definitely headed in the right direction, I wouldn't bet money on Dellandrea turning into a top 6 forward, but I think that will depend on how well the Stars can develop him.

Our big free agent signings have been good, but we've had to make up for our crap drafting by signing a lot of bottom 6 players to semi-expensive contracts. The Oleksiak trade (2019) was very good for the value, before that you have to go back to 2017 for the Bishop and Patrick Eaves (for a 1st from Anaheim), and 2015 for the Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns trade. It's been a really long time since Nill actually made a big, positive move like he did in our early days.

We could probably sit here and dissect his free agent signings and trades some more. But what I see is a team that won't pick a direction and stick with it, that hasn't drafted well enough that they're cap strapped because they have to trade for guys like Cogliano and sign Comeau. More importantly, the results are that after 8 years and spending to the cap, this team still can't consistently make it to the playoffs. That's a pretty low bar, to be honest. I think 8 years is plenty enough time to evaluate what kind of GM Jim Nill is, and that it's probably not one good enough to win us a cup. On a subjective note, I generally dislike what he values in a player. He cares more about 'character' and 'grit', and McDonell has been obsessed with size in the draft. Colorado and Tampa care about skill and hockey IQ. So does Chicago. So did Detroit, even during the dead puck era. Good teams are made of players that are good at hockey.

if you expect the FO to come out and constantly bitch publicly every time the team doesn't win the cup or look like a top contender throughout the season, idk what to tell you. do you really think these hyper competitive people are satisfied with a season that ends out of the playoffs or an early exit? every year they're making moves.. not all of them work, and not every move you'd like them to make is possible. i'd even go so far as to say most aren't. ppl look at a list of free agents and think you can just cherry pick and also pick the $$ amount. that's not how real life works.

as you referenced, there have been multiple coaches, multiple trades, shifting in philosophies, addressing of organizational weaknesses such as goalie. you may not like the style, but the team is build to play a style of hockey that is consistently successful in the playoffs. leafs fans would kill for some of that now, much like many here would kill to have their flash and skill.

anyway, i don't think anyone would say Nill has been perfect, but i'd love to see the list of GMs that have outperformed him. (also, remember they would all be stuck with the same owner and BS from folks like Lites). Speaking of the leafs.. how do you think they would have fared this year missing their version of Seguin & Radulov? call it an excuse if you want, but i'd love to see the GM that can survive missing two of their best players for the season. i can think of maybe one team, tampa, and that's not something they could sustain over time, only in a given window.

i'm inclined to agree a lot with Firstrow.. the ugliness and shitting on the fo is absurd. it's one thing to armchair GM, but you guys act like it's some simple formula and if you were in charge of it all we'd have a permanent parade route built downtown. the arrogance is funny sometimes, but can get rather off-putting.

 

[M88K]

8yrs of mediocrity and people still rush to defend Nill and co.
Cant even do something like make the playoffs consistently.
That guy doesn't deserve to be shit on, because of all the goodwill he's built up from all his years of successful... what exactly?

 

[David Castillo]

I don't know if you noticed, but no one, myself included, was calling for heads to roll in Colorado after the Dallas series. No one was arguing that Colorado's first round win was a fluke because of the Dallas series.

Injuries happen, they're a part of the game. Both sides had injured players in that series. It's a consistent perspective to say that neither Dallas nor Colorado needed some big shakeup after the course of events, in which at varying times both teams have had significant injuries. It's a dual standard to say that one is excusable and explicable as a fluke due to injuries but the other team needs to blow things up.

If injuries are part of the game, then why chalk them up as the sole reason Dallas missed the playoffs? That's not directed at you specifically. But the point is that people aren't complaining just to complain. Colorado is an elite team who struggled when they got hit with multiple injuries to a crucial position. Dallas caught lightning in a bottle for one season, and have been largely inconsistent except at not scoring enough over the last four seasons. Has that actually changed? Dallas doesn't need to blow anything up. They're gonna be good next season. But if the bar is set at 'win a Cup' instead of 'happy just to have a ticket' then they're gonna need to adopt a stronger system in the offensive zone. Bourque, Damiani, Harley - that's where the team is trending anyhow.

 

[BfantZ]

The thing I don't really understand, is there's a contingent of people here who think a lot of us are overly negative. That's fine, but I don't really see what they're arguing for. What is your stance? That you were utterly unsurprised the Stars made a cup run because you think that the team is a top 5 team in the league and a contender every single year? Top 10?

All I really want is a front office that is not satisfied with mediocrity. When Nill got here, he acquired Spezza and Seguin using the spare parts we had lying around. We built this offensive juggernaut that was lacking in defense. We got beat by St. Louis and overreacted and became overly defensive. It's basically the same problem in a different direction. It has been 8 years since Nill became our GM. We've made the playoffs 50% of the time. We've had 4 coaches.

Our first round picks have been Nichushkin, Dickinson, Honka, Gurianov, Tufte, Heiskanen, Oettinger, Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque. Hintz and Robertson are probably the best picks we've made during that time. Heiskanen is basically a gimme. We have drafted zero impact players after the first two rounds. If we assume Oettinger continues on his current trajectory and if we don't absolutely ruin Gurianov, along with Heiskanen, maybe we get to three. I'll hold judgement on Dellandrea, Harley, and Borque for now. It's fair to say we can be optimistic about Harley, and Borque is definitely headed in the right direction, I wouldn't bet money on Dellandrea turning into a top 6 forward, but I think that will depend on how well the Stars can develop him.

Our big free agent signings have been good, but we've had to make up for our crap drafting by signing a lot of bottom 6 players to semi-expensive contracts. The Oleksiak trade (2019) was very good for the value, before that you have to go back to 2017 for the Bishop and Patrick Eaves (for a 1st from Anaheim), and 2015 for the Patrick Sharp and Stephen Johns trade. It's been a really long time since Nill actually made a big, positive move like he did in our early days.

We could probably sit here and dissect his free agent signings and trades some more. But what I see is a team that won't pick a direction and stick with it, that hasn't drafted well enough that they're cap strapped because they have to trade for guys like Cogliano and sign Comeau. More importantly, the results are that after 8 years and spending to the cap, this team still can't consistently make it to the playoffs. That's a pretty low bar, to be honest. I think 8 years is plenty enough time to evaluate what kind of GM Jim Nill is, and that it's probably not one good enough to win us a cup. On a subjective note, I generally dislike what he values in a player. He cares more about 'character' and 'grit', and McDonell has been obsessed with size in the draft. Colorado and Tampa care about skill and hockey IQ. So does Chicago. So did Detroit, even during the dead puck era. Good teams are made of players that are good at hockey.

I think you are over thinking it a little bit . Stars had a good thing going . They were in the playoffs the last 3 years straight and doing better each year . This season was a write off from the beginning . They will be back in the playoffs and contending next year .