Speculation: 2020-21 Season Rumors and Facts Thread

bone

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I just don’t see the players agreeing to this. With the current deferral and escrow agreement I’m pretty sure they are at 72% of gross income correct? Another 16% deferred and even further escrow guys would be at like 50-55% of gross income.

Think of a guy like Barrie who just took a cheaper 1 year deal because of the situation, is he really going to show up for 2M or less gross income?

I know if my work came to me and told me to work for 50% of my pay I would probably just say not worth it.

If it's only 50% of the work (i.e. a shorter schedule) do you really think it's the same. Deferred also doesn't mean you don't get paid, just get paid later. For you and I that'd be crushing, for them, less so, though I can understand the players saying "borrow the money, it's never been cheaper to borrow" rather than borrowing from the players or pay the interest to the players you'd be paying elsewhere.
 

bone

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Will they really split up Philly and Pitts?

Someone needs to leave that cluster of cities, though I'd say Carolina seems the more logical fit

nhl-map-complete.png
 
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Smartguy

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If it's only 50% of the work (i.e. a shorter schedule) do you really think it's the same. Deferred also doesn't mean you don't get paid, just get paid later. For you and I that'd be crushing, for them, less so, though I can understand the players saying "borrow the money, it's never been cheaper to borrow" rather than borrowing from the players or pay the interest to the players you'd be paying elsewhere.

I am aware what deferred means, contrary to popular belief every NHL player doesn’t have tonnes of money on hand, how about guys just entering the league? Playing for league minimum, lots of these guys need solid paychecks to get by.

A guy making 900K this year, down to 500ish right off the bat because of these NHL restrictions, upfront obviously. Playing in Canada? Take another 40% for income tax, down to 300ish? Life expenses, paying your agent, paying your trainer, all that adds up.

Sure the guys who make 5-10M for last decade are fine, but do they want to risk injury? Say you are a year away from UFA, you want to play for half the $ on your current deal, upfront $ I’m referring too? Have a down year or get injured?

I just think that the players won’t be overly receptive to that, Panarin was just in the media a few months back bashing the escrow
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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I am aware what deferred means, contrary to popular belief every NHL player doesn’t have tonnes of money on hand, how about guys just entering the league? Playing for league minimum, lots of these guys need solid paychecks to get by.

A guy making 900K this year, down to 500ish right off the bat because of these NHL restrictions, upfront obviously. Playing in Canada? Take another 40% for income tax, down to 300ish? Life expenses, paying your agent, paying your trainer, all that adds up.

Sure the guys who make 5-10M for last decade are fine, but do they want to risk injury? Say you are a year away from UFA, you want to play for half the $ on your current deal, upfront $ I’m referring too? Have a down year or get injured?

I just think that the players won’t be overly receptive to that, Panarin was just in the media a few months back bashing the escrow

They will play less with no revenue coming in and still collect full salaries less escrow including all deferred money over the next 2 (3?) years.

Pretty sure they will somehow scrape by.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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the West division for the feasting by Vegas and Colorado


Minnesota will have a crappy travel schedule. So will the Canadian teams but out west were used to it. Cue the whining from the Toronto media and Eugene Melnyk.

Splitting Pitt and Phi makes zero sense. Swap Carolina w Pitt as has been said.
 

bellagiobob

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They will play less with no revenue coming in and still collect full salaries less escrow including all deferred money over the next 2 (3?) years.

Pretty sure they will somehow scrape by.

It’s just the reality of the situation. Every player is in a different spot financially, so they will likely give you different answers if they want to play this year or not. But I’d guess that 95%+ would want to play. Most need a paycheque, and it’s not like they can just go find another well paying job out there. Half of what they are used to is still better than nothing.
 

McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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The longer the NHLPA drags it on, the more it hurts them financially.
They have zero leverage here. The owners have nothing to gain by playing a season, the players do. The sooner they realize that the better for their sake.

It doesn't mean they should give in fully but they will have to make some concessions whether it be pro-rated salaries or deferrals. If they think they're getting a full seasons' worth of salary for playing an abbreviated season, they're delusional.

The players are almost always delusional to be honest, I expect nothing different this time around.
 

McJadeddog

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I just don’t see the players agreeing to this. With the current deferral and escrow agreement I’m pretty sure they are at 72% of gross income correct? Another 16% deferred and even further escrow guys would be at like 50-55% of gross income.

Think of a guy like Barrie who just took a cheaper 1 year deal because of the situation, is he really going to show up for 2M or less gross income?

I know if my work came to me and told me to work for 50% of my pay I would probably just say not worth it.

I think it might be 16% over three years, not necessarily 16% per year. That is how I read it, but I could be wrong.

And yes, of course guys like Barrie will still show up. What is the other option? Stay at home for nothing, or play in Europe for significantly less money.

The difference between you and an NHLer, is that 50% for you likely means you are missing mortgage payments or bills, while for an NHL player is means that he is slightly less rich. $100k -> 50k, is a LOT different than $4 M -> 2M.
 

boredem

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Jan 22, 2013
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I just don’t see the players agreeing to this. With the current deferral and escrow agreement I’m pretty sure they are at 72% of gross income correct? Another 16% deferred and even further escrow guys would be at like 50-55% of gross income.

Think of a guy like Barrie who just took a cheaper 1 year deal because of the situation, is he really going to show up for 2M or less gross income?

I know if my work came to me and told me to work for 50% of my pay I would probably just say not worth it.

If you're in Edmonton making $2mil/year you can take off another 46% for taxes. It's barely even worth playing for them.
 

bone

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I think it might be 16% over three years, not necessarily 16% per year. That is how I read it, but I could be wrong.

And yes, of course guys like Barrie will still show up. What is the other option? Stay at home for nothing, or play in Europe for significantly less money.

The difference between you and an NHLer, is that 50% for you likely means you are missing mortgage payments or bills, while for an NHL player is means that he is slightly less rich. $100k -> 50k, is a LOT different than $4 M -> 2M.

Or even $750K vs. $375K really.
 

McJadeddog

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Or even $750K vs. $375K really.

Yeah exactly. I almost didn't even use the $100k -> 50k example, because there are lots and lots and LOTS of people getting by on $50k/year. Even at league minimum, which is $700,000 USD ($915,000 CAD), the player would still be making $350,000 USD ($456,000 CAD) gross. I work for a large corporation in Canada (about 8000 employees) and the C-level execs in my company make "around" $500,000 CAD/year. So, yeah, I think the NHL players making minimum, even after half of it goes to escrow (which it DOESN'T by the way), would be just fine.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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I am aware what deferred means, contrary to popular belief every NHL player doesn’t have tonnes of money on hand, how about guys just entering the league? Playing for league minimum, lots of these guys need solid paychecks to get by.

A guy making 900K this year, down to 500ish right off the bat because of these NHL restrictions, upfront obviously. Playing in Canada? Take another 40% for income tax, down to 300ish? Life expenses, paying your agent, paying your trainer, all that adds up.

Sure the guys who make 5-10M for last decade are fine, but do they want to risk injury? Say you are a year away from UFA, you want to play for half the $ on your current deal, upfront $ I’m referring too? Have a down year or get injured?

I just think that the players won’t be overly receptive to that, Panarin was just in the media a few months back bashing the escrow

They will play less with no revenue coming in and still collect full salaries less escrow including all deferred money over the next 2 (3?) years.

Pretty sure they will somehow scrape by.

As 5 Mins and others say there are reasons for the salary cuts to players.

They will be working less and their owners are paying them with little income.

No matter how little they are making due to all these factors or when they actually get paid they are extremely lucky to be getting any income period.
 

Snipes45

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May 26, 2020
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I am aware what deferred means, contrary to popular belief every NHL player doesn’t have tonnes of money on hand, how about guys just entering the league? Playing for league minimum, lots of these guys need solid paychecks to get by.

A guy making 900K this year, down to 500ish right off the bat because of these NHL restrictions, upfront obviously. Playing in Canada? Take another 40% for income tax, down to 300ish? Life expenses, paying your agent, paying your trainer, all that adds up.

Sure the guys who make 5-10M for last decade are fine, but do they want to risk injury? Say you are a year away from UFA, you want to play for half the $ on your current deal, upfront $ I’m referring too? Have a down year or get injured?

I just think that the players won’t be overly receptive to that, Panarin was just in the media a few months back bashing the escrow
Guys making min wage who need a check to get by are probably some of the most uneducated and dumbest players out there. That is still a ton after taxes. Jeezus. Maybe some of them go blow it on a big house and cars right away. Bound to be a few.
 

boredem

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Jan 22, 2013
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AGreed. They'd be much better off just getting a job a Superstore or something for that little of pay.

The entitlement of some fans is mind blowing. They put a ton of effort in and every game could be their last with nothing to fall back on. If it's not worth it for them to play and they don't want to I don't care.
 

bone

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The entitlement of some fans is mind blowing. They put a ton of effort in and every game could be their last with nothing to fall back on. If it's not worth it for them to play and they don't want to I don't care.

That wasn't my point. I don't care if they choose to sit out because of it, that's their prerogative. They've earned the right to make that kind of money through hard work and dedication to their craft and I'm glad for them that they can make that kind of money and position themselves in such a way that they could suggest a million dollars isn't worth it.

I don't feel that I'm entitled to watch them play and that they should shut up, but I'm never going to agree when someone says a million dollars isn't even worth it, when it is an impossibility that those individuals could make that same money doing anything else. They don't have to play, but they can't cry poor.
 
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Snipes45

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That wasn't my point. I don't care if they choose to sit out because of it, that's their prerogative. They've earned the right to make that kind of money through hard work and dedication to their craft and I'm glad for them that they can make that kind of money.

I don't feel that I'm entitled to watch them play and that they should shut up, but I'm never going to agree when someone says a million dollars isn't even worth it, when it is an impossibility that those individuals could make that same money doing anything else. They don't have to play, but they can't cry poor.
I agree with this. I believe if you work hard at your craft and make it to the top 1%-3%, etc, you have a right to make as much money as you can and want to. Nothing wrong with that.

When a pandemic hits like this, I take a different stance. I know these guys get used to a lifestyle, have much more expenses, etc. I still laugh when any of them say it's not worth it or that they need it. That is called not properly managing your funds. They should be happy as hell that they can play something this year when there is no gate money coming in. If I was an owner, I would not want to play this season. It's a 2 way street. Without players, there is no hockey and without owners, they cannot make this $$. In the end though, if the players all left at once, there would be new ones (that are less skilled) jumping for the job. If the league shut down, the players would not have this lifestye. The owners would carry on bathing in their dollar bills.
 

boredem

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Jan 22, 2013
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If the players all walked and they tried replacement players viewership would tank. Except maybe in Edmonton, where we iced an AHL team for 10 years and everyone still watched.


They don't have to play, but they can't cry poor.

They absolutely can cry poor, they have established a lifestyle based on their contract amount that they are entitled to per year. Unless there is a clause in their contract covering this (There maybe, I have no idea) they have a right to the money, the owners sign up for these contracts knowing the risks. No different then the rest of us just on a larger scale. I assume they could claim Force Majeure and delay the contract, then it's on the players and part of the contract.
 
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bone

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If the players all walked and they tried replacement players viewership would tank. Except maybe in Edmonton, where we iced an AHL team for 10 years and everyone still watched.




They absolutely can cry poor, they have established a lifestyle based on their contract amount that they are entitled to per year. Unless there is a clause in their contract covering this (There maybe, I have no idea) they have a right to the money, the owners sign up for these contracts knowing the risks. No different then the rest of us just on a larger scale. I assume they could claim Force Majeure and delay the contract, then it's on the players and part of the contract.

I agree viewership would tank.

For the contracts, they do have something covering it. Its called the salary cap being tied to actual revenues, all these things like salary deferral, escrow, etc are just mechanisms to get in front of this as the players are likely to be overpaid based off that rule. If anyone truly believes revenues will actually be even half what they normally would be, I've got some Ocean Front Property in Leduc to sell you.

Obviously, your version of poor is not in line with 99.99% of the world's population or approximately that.
 

boredem

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Jan 22, 2013
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I agree viewership would tank.

For the contracts, they do have something covering it. Its called the salary cap being tied to actual revenues, all these things like salary deferral, escrow, etc are just mechanisms to get in front of this as the players are likely to be overpaid based off that rule. If anyone truly believes revenues will actually be even half what they normally would be, I've got some Ocean Front Property in Leduc to sell you.

Obviously, your version of poor is not in line with 99.99% of the world's population or approximately that.

That's exactly why I wouldn't be surprised they don't want to play. If their salaries are linked to actual revenue why even bother, it's going to be abysmal in January. Come back next fall and don't burn a year of your contract giving most of your money back (they should get a 1 year extension depending on contract verbiage)
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

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For those that don’t subscribe here is a really good quote;

One player agent told me this week that owners are quick to point out the reason expansion fee money doesn’t go in the hockey related revenue pie with the players is because owners put up all the financial risk when owning a team so expansion money should not be shared. But now that owners are hurting financially with the pandemic, this agent feels it rings hollow that the players are being asked to come to the rescue. And there’s some merit to all that.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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For those that don’t subscribe here is a really good quote;

One player agent told me this week that owners are quick to point out the reason expansion fee money doesn’t go in the hockey related revenue pie with the players is because owners put up all the financial risk when owning a team so expansion money should not be shared. But now that owners are hurting financially with the pandemic, this agent feels it rings hollow that the players are being asked to come to the rescue. And there’s some merit to all that.

players will cave eventually...especially since there's no financial incentive for some owners to even play hockey this year without fans
players can get mad all they want, but in the end its them who don't get paid this year
 

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