GDT: 2020-21 season game 9 LA Kings vs Anaheim Ducks @7:00pm 2/2/21

[BigKing]

I again ask though how much of the face off fights is the players or the coaches? MacD normally is not out there for first shift of the game so the coaches knew what was going on. MacD could have just been doing his job and TM needs to figure out a different way to light a fire under his team, like you said, all that did was inspire the ducks

Or this p***y ass roster can stop playing like they are just going through the motions. What does it say about the Kings and then the Wild and Ducks? They are inspired by their guy fighting but the Kings aren't, for some reason.

Again, this team needs to be dragged in to playing a physical game as they never do it by themselves. If T-Mac is starting MacDermid and it isn't to fight, it is at least to hope he can put a big hit on early in the game to get them going. If I was the coach of the Kings, I'd be at my wits end with trying to figure out how to get these guys going since it has basically been like this since Sutter's last season when they tuned him out.

Of course, we've seen this from the current vets before and it took a hard ass in Sutter to push them to another level. The players got what they wanted with Sutter being fired and it has been easy street ever since. That is the degradation of the culture that was spoken about when the rebuild started. Not a newsflash by any means but it isn't fixed yet.

As for the Lucic fight, there is going to be a time where MacD wants the fight from Lucic in LA to do the same thing in regards to pumping up the team and crowd. He turns down Lucic in Calgary then he doesn't get it when he wants it. MacD did the right and honorable thing and, lo and behold, he got his fight in LA. I'm pretty sure the Kings still won that game...think it was the Doughty OT winner when he got into it with the fans.

 

[BigKing]

If we were playing Matthew Tkachuk 8 times this year with the team we currently have, I would gladly toss 2 points that we're likely to lose anyway to take an instigator if he's going to run around.

You're absolutely right that this stuff is largely out of the game (player policing) but at a certain point it's less about "stopping" a Tkachuk, Marchand, Perron from running around (as you point out, they're enjoying the extra 2) and much, much more about showing your teammates you're there to stick up for them and you're in a battle together.

I mean in that same Wild game Wagner took a half assed run at Kaprizov and Soucy went over to let him know f*** off, we know what happened next. Soucy is a total chode but I loved that from him. I know these guys largely won't do it for Kopitar/Doughty--what happens if someone absolutely runs Kaliyev? JAD? Does no one do anything? We know guys like Mitchell, Regehr would rip someone's head off for a teammate and I'm not sure these Kings would do anything. That's worrying from a team culture standpoint. When your spiciest players are Kempe and Wagner...

Even at the mediocre levels I've played at, I don't care so much if someone 'stops' a hack from doing something as much as I care I know they'll have my back when that guy has me on the ground in front of the net.

There is an element of worrying about Roy laying on the ice but the response to the Fiala hit was pathetic. Can we just once see someone do more than just grab a guy around the head from behind and hold on? A big part of the rebuild is team building and buying in for each other and it still seems to really be lacking.

 

[Kurrilino]

Guys, you can't be serious

Dressing enforcers is like 30 years ago.
I have never seen a team winning cup because of an enforcer.
Usually those guys find creative ways to force opponents out of position and score.
If McDermid just grabs a defender and beat him up so Kaliyev can just skate through and score, i am all for it.
I'm just afraid this is illegal and we end up with a penalty.

So why don't we focus on the main part of the game. Putting a puck into the opponents net.

 

[Kurrilino]

There is an element of worrying about Roy laying on the ice but the response to the Fiala hit was pathetic. Can we just once see someone do more than just grab a guy around the head from behind and hold on? A big part of the rebuild is team building and buying in for each other and it still seems to really be lacking.

And what do you propose should have been done?????
Just by Fiala's reaction you could tell he was shocked about what happened.

Where i come from we answer this kind of incident with 3 goals, celebrating right in front of their bench

 

[Kurrilino]

double post

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Guys, you can't be serious

Dressing enforcers is like 30 years ago.
I have never seen a team winning cup because of an enforcer.
Usually those guys find creative ways to force opponents out of position and score.
If McDermid just grabs a defender and beat him up so Kaliyev can just skate through and score, i am all for it.
I'm just afraid this is illegal and we end up with a penalty.

So why don't we focus on the main part of the game. Putting a puck into the opponents net.

I think this whole fighting conversation is what you're alluding to, though: this team currently--and has, for several years--lacked the will as a whole to fight through anything difficult to make the game happen. That includes going to the hard areas to score, taking hits to make plays.

No, teams don't win a cup because of an enforcer, but they do win on collective grit and moxie. These players individually have it, we've seen it, but as a team they're really hesitant for some reason and that's worrysome.

 

[Kurrilino]

I think this whole fighting conversation is what you're alluding to, though: this team currently--and has, for several years--lacked the will as a whole to fight through anything difficult to make the game happen. That includes going to the hard areas to score, taking hits to make plays.

No, teams don't win a cup because of an enforcer, but they do win on collective grit and moxie. These players individually have it, we've seen it, but as a team they're really hesitant for some reason and that's worrysome.

Though there is some merit to what you say, i don't think this is a solution.
The main problem is that this team doesn't even know how to create offense.
With Murray and Sutter they were forced to do nothing else but board battles and crowding the net.
Where would any motivation or emotion come from? Just imagine you are a highly skilled player being forced to this.
And we can see exactly who grew up in that system. Those guys are now the team leaders and don't get anything done.

Just rushing the blueline right at the board and dumping the puck in is not cutting it anymore.
Even if you somehow conquer the puck, you are already at the boards, there is only 1 way to the goal and the defenders these days know that.
The kings solution to that is to turn away and pass back to the blue line. Every attack looks like that, IF they win the puck battle.
What we need are agile creative centers who can carry the puck entering the offense zone at the middle to open at least 3 options.

 

[tny760]

Guys, you can't be serious

Dressing enforcers is like 30 years ago.
I have never seen a team winning cup because of an enforcer.
Usually those guys find creative ways to force opponents out of position and score.
If McDermid just grabs a defender and beat him up so Kaliyev can just skate through and score, i am all for it.
I'm just afraid this is illegal and we end up with a penalty.

So why don't we focus on the main part of the game. Putting a puck into the opponents net.

are we cup contenders? pretty sure we're not even f***in close. i get that we want to dress a skilled team but you can't dress 18 year olds against a foligno/greenway line without them getting utterly abused and breaking their spirits, especially when foligno and greenway KNOW that they won't have to answer for it. a bunch of 18 year olds aren't gonna have each others' backs, they need a grown man behind them. maybe watching mac bust his knuckles on someone's head for them will help them be less of a passenger

besides, macdermid gets PK minutes.. an 80s/90s enforcer doesn't. he doesn't just provide bench warmth until his next fighting major, he gives you decent bottom pairing minutes so long as you don't expect more from him

 

[tny760]

Though there is some merit to what you say, i don't think this is a solution.
The main problem is that this team doesn't even know how to create offense.
With Murray and Sutter they were forced to do nothing else but board battles and crowding the net.
Where would any motivation or emotion come from? Just imagine you are a highly skilled player being forced to this.
And we can see exactly who grew up in that system. Those guys are now the team leaders and don't get anything done.

Just rushing the blueline right at the board and dumping the puck in is not cutting it anymore.
Even if you somehow conquer the puck, you are already at the boards, there is only 1 way to the goal and the defenders these days know that.
The kings solution to that is to turn away and pass back to the blue line. Every attack looks like that, IF they win the puck battle.
What we need are agile creative centers who can carry the puck entering the offense zone at the middle to open at least 3 options.

this is precisely the point of a rebuild. like i don't know what you expect, there's stages to this. do you want us to sell off prospects for a center now?

 

[fivehole32]

I can hear his voice in that meme

 

[BigKing]

Though there is some merit to what you say, i don't think this is a solution.
The main problem is that this team doesn't even know how to create offense.
With Murray and Sutter they were forced to do nothing else but board battles and crowding the net.
Where would any motivation or emotion come from? Just imagine you are a highly skilled player being forced to this.
And we can see exactly who grew up in that system. Those guys are now the team leaders and don't get anything done.

Just rushing the blueline right at the board and dumping the puck in is not cutting it anymore.
Even if you somehow conquer the puck, you are already at the boards, there is only 1 way to the goal and the defenders these days know that.
The kings solution to that is to turn away and pass back to the blue line. Every attack looks like that, IF they win the puck battle.
What we need are agile creative centers who can carry the puck entering the offense zone at the middle to open at least 3 options.

Tampa Bay couldn't win it all until they added Maroon, Bogosian, Coleman and Goodrow. All that offense and they got run out of town by a gritty CBJ team. They went out and added these guys--sacrificing two1st round picks + prospects--because they knew they needed more grit.

St. Louis = gritty. Capitals = Gritty. You aren't winning the Cup based on simply being a great offense.

Don't mix up discussions of "staged" fighting and enforcers v. the overall softness of this team. The former is barely a thing anymore but the latter is still extremely important and, believe it or not, directly correlates to being able to score more goals.

The Kings don't currently have the grit or the talent so you are correct about needing the latter; however, the grit should be easier to obtain v. skill because the former is all up to the individual and this team continues to choose to play soft. You can win NHL games with effort and a talent deficiency but you aren't winning many at all with low effort and a talent deficiency.

 

[kingsholygrail]

this is precisely the point of a rebuild. like i don't know what you expect, there's stages to this. do you want us to sell off prospects for a center now?

You know, it does kind of feel like the Crawford years.

 

[Sol]

That's what happens when Kopitar doesn't try. He's a first line center. Points be damned. He needs to act like a 8-10 million dollar forward and dictate play. He's been extremely invisible. The first PP unit is suffering because of him. At least Doughty is shooting a lot more than he used to.

It's not an enforcer they need. They need the second PP unit to userp the first PP in icetime. And they need Kopitar to set a tone in offense. The fact that iafallo is more noticeable of late than him should tell you the games Kopi is taking off.

 

[Bandit]

"Our powerplay will be our enforcer"

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

"Our powerplay will be our enforcer"

 

[Bandit]

Tampa Bay couldn't win it all until they added Maroon, Bogosian, Coleman and Goodrow. All that offense and they got run out of town by a gritty CBJ team. They went out and added these guys--sacrificing two1st round picks + prospects--because they knew they needed more grit.

St. Louis = gritty. Capitals = Gritty. You aren't winning the Cup based on simply being a great offense.

Don't mix up discussions of "staged" fighting and enforcers v. the overall softness of this team. The former is barely a thing anymore but the latter is still extremely important and, believe it or not, directly correlates to being able to score more goals.

The Kings don't currently have the grit or the talent so you are correct about needing the latter; however, the grit should be easier to obtain v. skill because the former is all up to the individual and this team continues to choose to play soft. You can win NHL games with effort and a talent deficiency but you aren't winning many at all with low effort and a talent deficiency.

Yup, the Kings are going to need to find some guys like prime Brown, Stoll, Greene, Clifford etc. that can throw a f***ing hit.

 

[bland]

Hell, if Lucic only had this and next year left on his deal I would gladly take him back to have him around as the kids break in. That additional year is just one too many.

 

[killermiller]

I never would have thought I'd be missing a couple of Detroit rejects in Frk and AA as much as I did last night.

 

[Jason Squirties]

There is an element of worrying about Roy laying on the ice but the response to the Fiala hit was pathetic. Can we just once see someone do more than just grab a guy around the head from behind and hold on? A big part of the rebuild is team building and buying in for each other and it still seems to really be lacking.

I just dont know how you can get to this level and at least not have a handful of guys where that is just their gut instinct every single time they step foot on the ice. It just boggles my mind and the fact that there isn't is probably just proof that the game is moving away from me so that's maybe a bigger internal struggle.

It started with Lebron, me over team, just look out for yourselves kids, you'll be alright as long as you're the best in the world at it.

 

[BigKing]

Hell, if Lucic only had this and next year left on his deal I would gladly take him back to have him around as the kids break in. That additional year is just one too many.

Yep. I know it's an immediate "hell no" from Kings fans but it would be an option for me if the bitter pill of a contract could be sweetened up somehow. Carter and Brown are off the books for the last year of the Lucic contract but it's still rough to have him on at that point.

200 hits in 68 games last season with 13 minutes of ice time. Can still go with anyone if needed. Nice little playoff run last year as well.

 

[Statto]

If we were playing Matthew Tkachuk 8 times this year with the team we currently have, I would gladly toss 2 points that we're likely to lose anyway to take an instigator if he's going to run around.

You're absolutely right that this stuff is largely out of the game (player policing) but at a certain point it's less about "stopping" a Tkachuk, Marchand, Perron from running around (as you point out, they're enjoying the extra 2) and much, much more about showing your teammates you're there to stick up for them and you're in a battle together.

I mean in that same Wild game Wagner took a half assed run at Kaprizov and Soucy went over to let him know f*** off, we know what happened next. Soucy is a total chode but I loved that from him. I know these guys largely won't do it for Kopitar/Doughty--what happens if someone absolutely runs Kaliyev? JAD? Does no one do anything? We know guys like Mitchell, Regehr would rip someone's head off for a teammate and I'm not sure these Kings would do anything. That's worrying from a team culture standpoint. When your spiciest players are Kempe and Wagner...

Even at the mediocre levels I've played at, I don't care so much if someone 'stops' a hack from doing something as much as I care I know they'll have my back when that guy has me on the ground in front of the net.

I get what you’re saying, that team toughness/togetherness. I can cope with spur of the moment fighting as guys are human and passions overflow. I don’t particularly like it anymore, but I get it and for want of a better term ‘forgive’ it (unless it is retaliation to a clean hit). Its very different to the notion that a tough guy stops players doing anything, which is why It’s the staged fights and premise of enforcer I object to.

 

[BigKing]

I just dont know how you can get to this level and at least not have a handful of guys where that is just their gut instinct every single time they step foot on the ice. It just boggles my mind and the fact that there isn't is probably just proof that the game is moving away from me so that's maybe a bigger internal struggle.

It started with Lebron, me over team, just look out for yourselves kids, you'll be alright as long as you're the best in the world at it.

Right there with you. The thing is, however, that the teams that are perennial contenders as of late are generally ones that are going to go to war for each other even if today's idea of a war is the Falkland Islands v. how it was WWII in the 90's.

 

[Kurrilino]

this is precisely the point of a rebuild. like i don't know what you expect, there's stages to this. do you want us to sell off prospects for a center now?

????????

We have tons of centers. I ask to field proper centers instead the Lizottes and Amadios.
In my humble opinion i would say Villardi would benefit way more from playing seasoned wingers like Carter.
Right now he has to drag and pull unqualified people around on his own.
I really liked what i saw from Grundstrom - Villardi - Kaliev.
But like you mentioned there should be stages where youngster learn from qualified vets.
The keyword is qualified. We should also promote talent and ability over anything else
I would like to see
Grundstrom - Kopitar - Kempe
Carter - Villardi - Kaliev
Iafallo - Anderson - Brown
(insert any goon) - Lizotte - Wagner

Just to see what they are doing and how the developement is going before making more adjustments.
I didn't even expect the team to do as good as they do so far. We should mainly focus on educating the youngsters and get another top 3 pick.
Playoff shouldn't be a topic before next season.

 

[ru4reals]

That's what happens when Kopitar doesn't try. He's a first line center. Points be damned. He needs to act like a 8-10 million dollar forward and dictate play. He's been extremely invisible. The first PP unit is suffering because of him. At least Doughty is shooting a lot more than he used to.

It's not an enforcer they need. They need the second PP unit to userp the first PP in icetime. And they need Kopitar to set a tone in offense. The fact that iafallo is more noticeable of late than him should tell you the games Kopi is taking off.

Totally agree, and what does TM do, put the ultimate PP guy Amadios on the second unit. Just brutal. But yeah Kopi who arguably has one of the best shots on the team spends 2 minutes passing it back and forth to Doughty. Don't even know what to think at some point I thing Todd needs to be called out for these things.

 

[Docgonzo]

If we were playing Matthew Tkachuk 8 times this year with the team we currently have, I would gladly toss 2 points that we're likely to lose anyway to take an instigator if he's going to run around.

You're absolutely right that this stuff is largely out of the game (player policing) but at a certain point it's less about "stopping" a Tkachuk, Marchand, Perron from running around (as you point out, they're enjoying the extra 2) and much, much more about showing your teammates you're there to stick up for them and you're in a battle together.

I mean in that same Wild game Wagner took a half assed run at Kaprizov and Soucy went over to let him know f*** off, we know what happened next. Soucy is a total chode but I loved that from him. I know these guys largely won't do it for Kopitar/Doughty--what happens if someone absolutely runs Kaliyev? JAD? Does no one do anything? We know guys like Mitchell, Regehr would rip someone's head off for a teammate and I'm not sure these Kings would do anything. That's worrying from a team culture standpoint. When your spiciest players are Kempe and Wagner...

I understand sticking up for teammates but unless you got a player willing to sit for 2-4mins on a penalty sticking up for a teammate doesn’t do much anymore I believe. Because if a Tkachuk, Perry, Perron, Reaves, Marchand does something all it means is they know they go under your skin and they’ll do it again to get you to take a penalty. The way to solve that problem is not go after the person who took the big hit or did the cheap shot but someone else on the other team. But very very few players are willing to do that anymore.

You think Marchand, Tkachuk or Perron care what happens to themselves while you’re sitting in the box while they’re on the PP? Nope not really. How many times do those types of players sit there laughing at the other player after the refs call the penalty. McDermid is never going to stop that, unless he’s able to say lay out Johnny Hockey or something as a result of a Tkachuk cheap shot.

It’s Sean Connerys line from the Untouchables “they put one of yours in the hospital, you put on of theirs in the morgue” don’t go after them go after their teammates.