GDT: 2020-21 season game 24 LA Kings vs Anaheim Ducks @7:00pm 3/8/21

[kingsholygrail]

Malkin won ROTY and the finalist was Jordin Staal and Paul Stastny if I'm correct. Malkin was the obvious choice but Kopi didn't even get a sniff.

Kopitar was 4th in Calder votes.

 

[Bandit]

Malkin won ROTY and the finalist was Jordin Staal and Paul Stastny if I'm correct. Malkin was the obvious choice but Kopi didn't even get a sniff.

West coast bias.

 

[Herby]

I mean, the examples are myriad and have been cited to death in other threads, but a handful of posters here don't like facts if they're not cherry picked.

Our prospects are all teenage busts, patience is stupid.

All you do is make excuses and you talk about facts. Last year it was an injury that miraculously disappeared one weekend vs. weaker competition, poor coaching, bad teammates. For another player you blamed Covid, as if the entire world hasn't been through Covid. I'm not an excuses type of person, I sing praises of Kings players and prospects who play well like Bjornfot, Fagemo, Anderson, Roy etc and I criticize those that don't live up to expectation, I'm sorry if that bothers you, I'm not going to make excuses, it's not in my nature, ask any of my college friends who try to make them for our football program. Sports is the ultimate results oriented business and meritocracy, that is what I love about it. Since he has been drafted Trevor Zegras played excellent as a freshman in the NCAA, put up historical numbers at international tournaments (not as big a deal to me, good or bad), produced at a high level and by all indications was the best player on his AHL team as a 19 year old and now appears to be in the NHL for good at 19, that counts for a lot, he doesn't need excuses because he has produced.

And then more nonsense BS about busts. If you can find one time that I refer to any Kings prospect taken within the last 2 drafts as a bust I will give $1000 tonight to any charity that you want. You are just making stuff up. Alex Turcotte has not shown an offensive game the last two years that tells you the pick was not a mistake, for the 1000th time that doesn't mean he is a bust, but he is not at the level of player that Zegras is, and the results of each player as well as eye tests say that is a fact. Doesn't mean that Turcotte sucks, just means that the Kings probably got #15 type value with a #5 pick, to me that is a mistake, to you it apparently isn't.

Management/brass sent the fans an email prior to the season that the goal was the playoffs.

Every team does that. This division is not very good, I think they have a chance, but OT might doom them.

 

[Herby]

I remember Avs fans arguing Stastny was better and that they wouldn’t trade him for Kopitar. Must’ve been from the same base who thought Martin Skoula was better than Nicklas Lidstrom.

Well, some (most) fan-bases are full of homers.

Kopitar was a star player from the second he stepped onto NHL ice as a 19 year old. There were no excuses needed as to why he didn't produce, he went out there and crushed it and became the most impactful player in team history. I was living back east when he debuted and I actually feel like he got a lot of respect from hockey fans that I knew atleast.

 

[BigKing]

Management/brass sent the fans an email prior to the season that the goal was the playoffs.

I'm just saying they aren't going to be bummed with another high pick. The roster decisions still point towards figuring out what they have versus icing the best lineup. If they still make the playoffs then cool but the point is that there isn't a playoffs or bust mentality.

 

[Herby]

I'm just saying they aren't going to be bummed with another high pick. The roster decisions still point towards figuring out what they have versus icing the best lineup. If they still make the playoffs then cool but the point is that there isn't a playoffs or bust mentality.

They are probably to far along now to get a high pick, unless they win the lottery.

This is not a bad team, they aren't going to fall off a cliff in the 2nd half, they are probably either going to make it or take it down to the final week and miss. It's a return to the black hole, but playing meaningful games is going to be important. Even if they miss this year they should 100% be expecting to make it next year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

All you do is make excuses and you talk about facts. Last year it was an injury that miraculously disappeared one weekend vs. weaker competition, poor coaching, bad teammates. For another player you blamed Covid, as if the entire world hasn't been through Covid. I'm not an excuses type of person, I sing praises of Kings players and prospects who play well like Bjornfot, Fagemo, Anderson, Roy etc and I criticize those that don't live up to expectation, I'm sorry if that bothers you, I'm not going to make excuses, it's not in my nature, ask any of my college friends who try to make them for our football program.

And then more nonsense BS about busts. If you can find one time that I refer to any Kings prospect taken within the last 2 drafts as a bust I will give $1000 tonight to any charity that you want. You are just making stuff up. Alex Turcotte has not shown an offensive game the last two years that tells you the pick was not a mistake, for the 1000th time that doesn't mean he is a bust, but he is not at the level of player that Zegras is, and the results of each player as well as eye tests say that is a fact. Doesn't mean that Turcotte sucks, just means that the Kings probably got #15 type value with a #5 pick.

Every team does that. This division is not very good, I think they have a chance, but OT might doom them.

It didn't miraculously disappear--he was great before the injury, bad for 10 games after, great again at the end. I feel like there's a pattern there that's easily discernable, you disagree. That's fine, I can see why people would be down on his college season.

However, I don't at all agree that anyone should be jumping to conclusions after 6 AHL games. If you think that's because you're a big tough critic, that's fine, I'll agree to disagree there too.

 

[The Butcher]

Current projections probably show Zegras above Turcotte but how can you really put an honest ranking on anything this soon? For all we know both of them could bust. There's just not enough data yet for anyone to assume anything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They are probably to far along now to get a high pick, unless they win the lottery.

This is not a bad team, they aren't going to fall off a cliff in the 2nd half, they are probably either going to make it or take it down to the final week and miss. It's a return to the black hole, but playing meaningful games is going to be important. Even if they miss this year they should 100% be expecting to make it next year.

Yep, this is likely a black hole team pretty much as expected, and many nights it will be as ugly as this. I'm with you here and I expect them to drag it out until the last week or two. That should be the expectation, and next year needs to be the 2010 Kings.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

Horrible. Doughty Kempe and AA played well. Maatta and MacD were liabilities. Walker has not been good since hes returned. Luff is a 13th forward.
Playing MacD on the second pair and not sheltering him when there are better options available it seems like you dont care about winning the game before it even starts. I havent missed a game in many years. This was my least favorite display of hockey from both teams and the questionable lineup decision is upsetting.

How can you sit Bjornfot and play MacDermid? Carter has not played well. He will have 2 or 3 decent shifts a game, but does nothing good on most of his shifts...he may not be
playing bad, but he's doing little good. Not to sound like a Yogi Berra type of quote, but it's truth. Gabe was not great tonight, but want to see Carter off his line, but understand
that Carter can take some of the faceoffs.

Too bad to see Grundstrom and Kupari shut down for most of the 3rd period, as Luff does not deserve ice in the 3rd, but penalizes Grundstrom and Kupari.
I am liking Kupari, overall....but he's being overly cautious somewhat and at times, trying to support the puck in the ozone, following the puck.
I think he's capable of creating more for himself and linemates and that will come.

Moore had one of his best performances tonight...and got a shot in OT and almost won it.
Then, we would not have to talk about Zegras' great assist....ERRR.

Need JAD back. My fear is that JAD comes back and Todd puts Kupari back on taxi...when it should be Luff that is.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How can you sit Bjornfot and play MacDermid? Carter has not played well. He will have 2 or 3 decent shifts a game, but does nothing good on most of his shifts...he may not be
playing bad, but he's doing little good. Not to sound like a Yogi Berra type of quote, but it's truth. Gabe was not great tonight, but want to see Carter off his line, but understand
that Carter can take some of the faceoffs.

Too bad to see Grundstrom and Kupari shut down for most of the 3rd period, as Luff does not deserve ice in the 3rd, but penalizes Grundstrom and Kupari.
I am liking Kupari, overall....but he's being overly cautious somewhat and at times, trying to support the puck in the ozone, following the puck.
I think he's capable of creating more for himself and linemates and that will come.

He seems to be trying to be responsible and getting caught overthinking. I appreciate him soaking it in like a sponge before inevitably going back down. The guy should be even more of a force in the AHL after this.

 

[HookKing]

2 OT winners and a bunch of assists, but that doesn't count right?

When was the last one?

 

[Herby]

It didn't miraculously disappear--he was great before the injury, bad for 10 games after, great again at the end. I feel like there's a pattern there that's easily discernable, you disagree. That's fine, I can see why people would be down on his college season.

However, I don't at all agree that anyone should be jumping to conclusions after 6 AHL games. If you think that's because you're a big tough critic, that's fine, I'll agree to disagree there too.

Trevor Zegras is an insanely good hockey player, I know it probably pains you to realize it, but he is to just about everyone at another level from Alex Turcotte right now and in the future. (fair statement?) Saying that the Kings made a mistake is not saying that the other player is a bust, so please stop saying it as I have never once uttered those words about Turcotte. I found his play last season and so far this season to be extremely underwhelming for a player the Kings used a top 5 pick on, had he gone 10 picks later I wouldn't have those views, but I think it's fair to judge a player based on where they were picked. This is a bit of an extreme example because I don't think either of the players will be as good as the ones I am about to mention, but the Houston Rockets passed on Michael Jordan to take Hakeem Olajuwon with the #1 pick, I think everyone would agree that was a mistake, and people realized it was a mistake pretty quickly. Olajuwon still went on to be a Hall of Fame player who won multiple championships, but it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake with the pick.

 

[Sol]

Well, some (most) fan-bases are full of homers.

Kopitar was a star player from the second he stepped onto NHL ice as a 19 year old. There were no excuses needed as to why he didn't produce, he went out there and crushed it and became the most impactful player in team history. I was living back east when he debuted and I actually feel like he got a lot of respect from hockey fans that I knew atleast.

Well just remember that a lot of the people who kept harking on about Richards' intangibles and his prior to the NHL accomplishments somehow made it okay for him to suck and look past to how dreadful he had become. This fan base is full of rose colored glasses if you haven't noticed.

 

[Martyros]

I wouldn't trade Jens Karlsson for anything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Trevor Zegras is an insanely good hockey player, I know it probably pains you to realize it, but he is to just about everyone at another level from Alex Turcotte right now and in the future. (fair statement?) Saying that the Kings made a mistake is not saying that the other player is a bust, so please stop saying it as I have never once uttered those words about Turcotte. I found his play last season and so far this season to be extremely underwhelming for a player the Kings used a top 5 pick on, had he gone 10 picks later I wouldn't have those views, but I think it's fair to judge a player based on where they were picked. This is a bit of an extreme example because I don't think either of the players will be as good as the ones I am about to mention, but the Houston Rockets passed on Michael Jordan to take Hakeem Olajuwon with the #1 pick, I think everyone would agree that was a mistake, and people realized it was a mistake pretty quickly. Olajuwon still went on to be a Hall of Fame player who won multiple championships, but it doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake with the pick.

I don't take issue with the 'at this moment' evaluation. I take issue with the idea that the entire story is already written.

We've already seen these guys side by side and they were different players, neither one was on a 'different level.' Zegras was the creative offensive star and a production engine; Turcotte was the two-way all-zones play advancing force. Saying Zegras has advanced at this point is fine. Suggesting Turcotte can't recover is not.

 

[Docgonzo]

How come no one is complaining that we should’ve taken Hoglander over Kaliyev yet? Since Hoglander is in the NHL while Kaliyev has 1 goal in the AHL? Or Lundeatrom or Miller over Kupari? If we’re going to complain about picks let’s complain about them all. Haven’t heard the Forbort/Tarasenko whines in a few mins or Karlsson/Teubert in like years.

 

[Jericho111091]

How come no one is complaining that we should’ve taken Hoglander over Kaliyev yet? Since Hoglander is in the NHL while Kaliyev has 1 goal in the AHL? Or Lundeatrom or Miller over Kupari? If we’re going to complain about picks let’s complain about them all. Haven’t heard the Forbort/Tarasenko whines in a few mins or Karlsson/Teubert in like years.

Dont forget we traded the pick that became Bourque

 

[Herby]

Well just remember that a lot of the people who kept harking on about Richards' intangibles and his prior to the NHL accomplishments somehow made it okay for him to suck and look past to how dreadful he had become. This fan base is full of rose colored glasses if you haven't noticed.

Different situation. Richards was a former star player that had the most devoted, dedicated and loyal fanbase of any player I can ever remember on the Kings, we literally had people join this board and proclaim themselves Kings fans when he was traded here, truly bizarre but that is what it is, those people could just not accept he was finished. I mean some of the posts here were just insane and embarrassing his final 2 seasons, the guy would block a shot or chip the puck out of the zone and people would post about him "doing the little things" as the guy was being abused in the defensive zone like a 45 year old accountant playing pickup vs. AAA players.

It's a bit different situation here, people are optimistic about prospects, every board is like that. I don't think the defense of prospects is anything that is unique to this board. Turcotte is not the only highly touted prospect struggling for certain teams, and the same defense and excuses are made on those boards, so I think your opinion is a bit unfair.

How come no one is complaining that we should’ve taken Hoglander over Kaliyev yet? Since Hoglander is in the NHL while Kaliyev has 1 goal in the AHL? Or Lundeatrom or Miller over Kupari? If we’re going to complain about picks let’s complain about them all. Haven’t heard the Forbort/Tarasenko whines in a few mins or Karlsson/Teubert in like years.

Hoglander didn't just have a great game vs. the Kings tonight?

 

[Peter James Bond III]

How come no one is complaining that we should’ve taken Hoglander over Kaliyev yet? Since Hoglander is in the NHL while Kaliyev has 1 goal in the AHL? Or Lundeatrom or Miller over Kupari? If we’re going to complain about picks let’s complain about them all. Haven’t heard the Forbort/Tarasenko whines in a few mins or Karlsson/Teubert in like years.

I was about to bring up Matt Zultek...

 

[tny760]

How come no one is complaining that we should’ve taken Hoglander over Kaliyev yet? Since Hoglander is in the NHL while Kaliyev has 1 goal in the AHL? Or Lundeatrom or Miller over Kupari? If we’re going to complain about picks let’s complain about them all. Haven’t heard the Forbort/Tarasenko whines in a few mins or Karlsson/Teubert in like years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well just remember that a lot of the people who kept harking on about Richards' intangibles and his prior to the NHL accomplishments somehow made it okay for him to suck and look past to how dreadful he had become. This fan base is full of rose colored glasses if you haven't noticed.

Why is it a homeristic hot take to say "hey can we wait more than 6 f***ing pro games to consider this guy a blown pick because a guy picked after him is scoring at a 20 point pace"

 

[King'sPawn]

Zegras is better than I thought he'd be, but I'm still not completely convinced of him yet.

And I don't feel this way just because he'sca Ducks prospect. I was unsure of him prior to the 2019 draft.

Zegras is far more skilled than Turcotte, without question.

 

[Herby]

I don't take issue with the 'at this moment' evaluation. I take issue with the idea that the entire story is already written.

We've already seen these guys side by side and they were different players, neither one was on a 'different level.' Zegras was the creative offensive star and a production engine; Turcotte was the two-way all-zones play advancing force. Saying Zegras has advanced at this point is fine. Suggesting Turcotte can't recover is not.

Turcotte is going to get better, Zegras is going to get better too.

Elite players are much closer to finished products now at 20 than they were in the past, I think it's very wishful thinking to think that the gap is ever going to close.

Turcotte is a valuable asset, I don't know how many times I have to say that. But you can't just continue to excuse away the lack of offensive production at higher levels of hockey unless you are writing him off as a scorer at the NHL level? If a guy is going to be a scorer at the NHL level he probably should be producing at lower levels, that continues to be my biggest concern, which for some reason you for some reason continue to construe as thinking he's a bust.

Wouldn't you rather talk about how well he is doing in college or the AHL rather than make excuses for why he's not?

 

[Herby]

Zegras is better than I thought he'd be, but I'm still not completely convinced of him yet.

And I don't feel this way just because he'sca Ducks prospect. I was unsure of him prior to the 2019 draft.

Zegras is far more skilled than Turcotte, without question.

He just makes plays that not a lot of guys in the world have the vision to make. He is soft as butter and isn't nearly as smart in the defensive zone as he is in the offensive zone (see 1st Kempe goal tonight). But he is going to elevate every single teammate he plays with, and if the Ducks ever find a really good finisher for him, look out.

That play tonight where he threw the puck between his own legs to buy space then found a teammate cutting to the net in the slot, that was a special special play, he knew what he was going to do before he threw it between his legs. Very special skill and creativity. One of the best passes I have seen anyone make vs. the Kings this season.