GDT: 2020-21 season Game #2 LA Kings vs Minnesota Wild @6:00pm 1/16/21

Axl Rhoadz

Binky distributor
Apr 5, 2011
4,942
3,808
They won two cups because they had great coaching, goaltending and played for each other as a team. "Magic" had nothing to do with it, those championships were a direct result of hard work from the GM down through Jordan Nolan.

They also won because they had the three most important player ingredients: elite center, elite dman and elite goaltender.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Butcher

bland

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
7,092
10,005
They also won because they had the three most important player ingredients: elite center, elite dman and elite goaltender.

They had that before and after, and did nothing with them.

The key to that team was the injection of Mike Richards, Willie Mitchell and Darryl Sutter, all calls Lombardi made after the core proved their inability to hold each other accountable as a team. They needed real leadership. Once that element left, they returned to the same rudderless drift.
 

Kurrilino

Go Stoll Go
Aug 6, 2005
8,718
2,064
Calgary
Lucky for us, we did win a couple cups and have some data. Let’s check it out!

2012

Brown and Williams with 22 goals followed by an army of guys with 7 or fewer goals on wing.

2014

Williams with 19
Brown and the legendary Dwight King with 15
Tofolli and Nolan next with single digits.

History seems to suggest one can win a cup or two with 20G wingers on the top line, don’t you find?

;)

lol, alright you beat me to it.
Oh those memories of Dwight King. Where is that guy actually these days?

Well this kind of team building gave us at least Villardi and Byfield and i am grateful for that :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Token

HookKing

Registered User
Dec 12, 2008
8,795
2,580
The Kings won two cups because lighting struck twice: Jeff Carter and Marian Gaborik. Without JC the Kings don't even make the playoffs in 2012 much less win a cup. The Kings were lucky as hell and I'm just fine with it.
 

Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
Sep 13, 2018
10,700
17,188
Behind you
youtu.be
Every team that has ever won a championship has had some luck on their side.
quote-the-harder-i-work-the-luckier-i-get-samuel-goldwyn-11-26-28.jpg


screen-shot-2018-02-01-at-9-05-29-pm.jpg

4uejaz.jpg
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,490
60,931
I.E.
I don't see why anyone acts like a championship is a simple formula, we've seen two of them which is phenomenal, especially going Cup-WCF-Cup in an era in which only the Hawks and us stopped each other from a Threepeat. You need an awesome team but you also need luck and a heaping dose of intangibles, otherwise wouldn't the TBL and Sharks have swept the last two decades of championships? It's not as simple as "have the most talented players," or "your players suck because they didn't win."
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,490
60,931
I.E.
lol, alright you beat me to it.
Oh those memories of Dwight King. Where is that guy actually these days?

Well this kind of team building gave us at least Villardi and Byfield and i am grateful for that :)

Funny you ask, he's not signed anywhere this year, probably came home for family for Covid if I had to guess.

But he was ripping up the Austrian league!

Dwight King Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
 

The Butcher

Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
Sponsor
Mar 6, 2011
4,120
2,265
Mammoth Lakes
This may come across as harsh but I really do see any Kings fan complaining about this team right now as spoiled and unrealistic.

As loaded as everyone says our farm team is, we are still missing some obvious franchise players in the goaltending/defense departments and the only way to reliably aquire those is through drafting. And the only way to reliably get those low picks is to suck, which i think we will for at least another season.

You've seen this scenario play out over and over with all the teams that have won the cup over the last 30+ years.

Embrace the suck, folks.
 

Rusty Batch

Registered User
Sep 22, 2010
987
521
Kings are a team that is filled with bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing defenders. It's amazing that we are even competitive given the complete lack of talent throughout our roster. The prospects in our pipeline would very likely be able to take scoring roles from guys like Kempe and Brown who are not capable of Playing in the roles they are placed in. This should be an excellent opportunity for us to develop our prospects in an NHL scoring role and give the team a massive skill injection.
 

Axl Rhoadz

Binky distributor
Apr 5, 2011
4,942
3,808
You've seen this scenario play out over and over with all the teams that have won the cup over the last 30+ years.

Embrace the suck, folks.

I want to agree with you, but I wonder how accurate this is. How long was TB a bottom dweller before being a consistent favorite to win the cup? How about WSH? I feel like they've been a favorite forever. What about STL?

The drafting is important, no doubt....but there is so much more to it. Asset/player management, coaching, etc. Basically, sucking doesn't guarantee shit for the future, in my opinion.
 

The Butcher

Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
Sponsor
Mar 6, 2011
4,120
2,265
Mammoth Lakes
I want to agree with you, but I wonder how accurate this is. How long was TB a bottom dweller before being a consistent favorite to win the cup? How about WSH? I feel like they've been a favorite forever. What about STL?

The drafting is important, no doubt....but there is so much more to it. Asset/player management, coaching, etc. Basically, sucking doesn't guarantee shit for the future, in my opinion.
Tampa drafted ahead of us to get Stamkos when we got Doughty. They've done a better job of reloading and struck pure gold on some amazing late round picks.

You're right, sucking does nothing for you if you don't draft, coach, and manage your assets well.
 

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
32,435
22,233
Unemployed in Greenland
Tampa drafted ahead of us to get Stamkos when we got Doughty. They've done a better job of reloading and struck pure gold on some amazing late round picks.

You're right, sucking does nothing for you if you don't draft, coach, and manage your assets well.
I took Tampa Bay 12 years to win the cup after drafting Stamkos, after we had already won two. I'm not sure that's better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Butcher

The Butcher

Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
Sponsor
Mar 6, 2011
4,120
2,265
Mammoth Lakes
I took Tampa Bay 12 years to win the cup after drafting Stamkos, after we had already won two. I'm not sure that's better.
Fantastic point.

And those other teams STL drafted petro right after Doughty in that same draft.

WSH sucked pretty bad before acquiring a once in a generation player like ovie, which they continued to build around but again, 1 cup to our 2.

A matter of perspective, I suppose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandit

PumperNichol

Registered User
Sep 2, 2007
85
132
I took Tampa Bay 12 years to win the cup after drafting Stamkos, after we had already won two. I'm not sure that's better.

I don't think that was the point. The point is 12 years after drafting Stamkos TB did not just win the cup but they are favorites while the Kings are at the completely other end of the league.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,490
60,931
I.E.
I don't think that was the point. The point is 12 years after drafting Stamkos TB did not just win the cup but they are favorites while the Kings are at the completely other end of the league.


That's because during the time the Kings were winning championships TB was STILL rebuilding and missing the playoffs 6 times to get more picks including lotterying Hedman, wasting a #6 OA on Connolly, #3 OA on Drouin, 10 OA on Koekkoek...they were not competitive during the entire same window.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bandit

cyclones22

Registered User
Apr 4, 2003
5,035
5,522
Eastvale
That's because during the time the Kings were winning championships TB was STILL rebuilding and missing the playoffs 6 times to get more picks including lotterying Hedman, wasting a #6 OA on Connolly, #3 OA on Drouin, 10 OA on Koekkoek...they were not competitive during the entire same window.

Imagine having a 6 year window of drafting 1st ,2nd, 6th, 27th, 10th and 3rd overall. Let's not talk about Edmonton's or Pittsburgh historic tanking efforts. Never have the Kings been fortunate enough with the lottery or unfortunately sucked so bad to garner that many top picks consecutively. Even if the Kings were lotto lucky enough to draft 1st overall next draft, it STILL wouldn't equal Tampa's as the Kings would need another top 4 overall pick the following draft to have some sort of equivalency.

Funny story, in 2014 I was on a conference call with my co-workers in the Tampa area and we talked about how our hockey teams were both about to start golfing, down 0-3 in their respective First Round series. Funny how things can turn on a dime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chazz Reinhold

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
32,435
22,233
Unemployed in Greenland
I don't think that was the point. The point is 12 years after drafting Stamkos TB did not just win the cup but they are favorites while the Kings are at the completely other end of the league.

That's because during the time the Kings were winning championships TB was STILL rebuilding and missing the playoffs 6 times to get more picks including lotterying Hedman, wasting a #6 OA on Connolly, #3 OA on Drouin, 10 OA on Koekkoek...they were not competitive during the entire same window.

^ This. They haven't been contending for 12 years. We were contending "then", they're contending "now".
 

PumperNichol

Registered User
Sep 2, 2007
85
132
Imagine having a 6 year window of drafting 1st ,2nd, 6th, 27th, 10th and 3rd overall. Let's not talk about Edmonton's or Pittsburgh historic tanking efforts. Never have the Kings been fortunate enough with the lottery or unfortunately sucked so bad to garner that many top picks consecutively. Even if the Kings were lotto lucky enough to draft 1st overall next draft, it STILL wouldn't equal Tampa's as the Kings would need another top 4 overall pick the following draft to have some sort of equivalency.

Funny story, in 2014 I was on a conference call with my co-workers in the Tampa area and we talked about how our hockey teams were both about to start golfing, down 0-3 in their respective First Round series. Funny how things can turn on a dime.

In 2014 I was playing an ice hockey game and went to the locker room and saw San Jose won game 3 in OT. I went back to the bench and told everyone "seasons over, if the Kings win the cup this year I'll buy everyone here a steak dinner" The bill was $950.
 

BigKing

Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Mar 11, 2003
11,352
11,460
Belmont Shore, CA
google.com
I want to agree with you, but I wonder how accurate this is. How long was TB a bottom dweller before being a consistent favorite to win the cup? How about WSH? I feel like they've been a favorite forever. What about STL?

The drafting is important, no doubt....but there is so much more to it. Asset/player management, coaching, etc. Basically, sucking doesn't guarantee shit for the future, in my opinion.

It definitely doesn't guarantee anything but it helps to accumulate as many higher pick prospects as possible. It isn't just drafting Top 5 but also drafting at the top of the 2nd, 3rd etc. The big thing will also be what type of trades/signings Blake does with these assets.

A big help for TB was being able to move Bishop due to having a better goalie in the wings and picking up a Top 4 young d-man for him. Getting Sergachev for Drouin also salvaged a miss of a 3OA pick. So you are correct that there is more to it but the sucking helps put you in a position to make more impactful player management moves. This is why many of us say Blake is doing the easier part of GM'ing right now but his feet are going to really be held to the fire starting this off-season and into next season.
 

Statto

Registered User
Sponsor
May 9, 2014
4,889
6,648
Kings are a team that is filled with bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing defenders. It's amazing that we are even competitive given the complete lack of talent throughout our roster. The prospects in our pipeline would very likely be able to take scoring roles from guys like Kempe and Brown who are not capable of Playing in the roles they are placed in. This should be an excellent opportunity for us to develop our prospects in an NHL scoring role and give the team a massive skill injection.
It’s a great opportunity, but you don’t just throw them in, it doesn’t work like that... especially when we have so many players close to being NHL ready. Bottom 6 players need to be considered a bottom 3, it’s a different game now. The 3rd line won’t be a checking line, they will be expected to add scoring so it’s fine to add our more skilled prospects into that type role. It’s mostly about giving them good minutes, the right minutes. It’s a shame that Grundström seems to be injured as I would have hoped/expected him to have gotten increased minutes in his second game. It’s the same with Andersson, he’s had a taste so if he’s done what was asked of him I’d expect to see his minutes go up.

Adding one or two guys at a time, giving them a bit of a taste of things is exactly the right thing. Rushing it will just see us become Edmonton. As we go forward we should end up with 9 forwards expected to provide offence and a bottom 3 that can also chip in. It’s going to take time though and in the meantime the bottom 6 guys that you talk about can fill the other minutes as needed to allow us to properly prepare the young guys for a full time NHL role. We can debate how fast/slow that should happen but just 3 games in seems a bit early to assess how TM is doing things.
 

KingsFan7824

Registered User
Dec 4, 2003
19,356
7,445
Visit site
It definitely doesn't guarantee anything but it helps to accumulate as many higher pick prospects as possible. It isn't just drafting Top 5 but also drafting at the top of the 2nd, 3rd etc. The big thing will also be what type of trades/signings Blake does with these assets.

A big help for TB was being able to move Bishop due to having a better goalie in the wings and picking up a Top 4 young d-man for him. Getting Sergachev for Drouin also salvaged a miss of a 3OA pick. So you are correct that there is more to it but the sucking helps put you in a position to make more impactful player management moves. This is why many of us say Blake is doing the easier part of GM'ing right now but his feet are going to really be held to the fire starting this off-season and into next season.

I'm not sure this offseason is the one. He still has holdovers to cycle through. He's going to have to deal with old guys with Doughty, Kopitar, and Quick for a while, but Brown and Carter are gone after next year. Petersen is a UFA after next year. Quick will be turning 37 in 22-23, so they have to figure out what Petersen is. He's the goalie equivalent of Iafallo on the roster. Almost the same age and everything. Do you invest in him long term?

This year, we're very likely not going to see many of the young guys we care about. Blake doesn't even have many, and maybe no, UFA's to trade at the deadline to open up a spot for youth for the last few weeks of a season. There are a lot of RFA's this summer, some of which will likely not be brought back. So next year is when we start seeing more of the important youth, and then as of right now, Brown, Carter, and Maatta open up $14m in cap in the summer of 2022. By then, Blake should have a better idea of what he's got, and then you try and take advantage of the ELC's for a year or two, before some sort of cap crunch comes along.

This year, still killing time. Next year, there has to be real growth. Then a push. If it doesn't work, that's when Blake is gone. Spring of 2023 or whatever. Or, he's gone by the end of Kopitar or something like that. It would depend on how disappointing 22-23 is.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->