2020/21 Roster Thread XII: Heartache Spoken Here

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Redpath

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Sep 30, 2011
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Let's face it. It's the only way we'll ever get a player like him. Even when we win the lottery, we get the Nolan Patricks and JVRs and not the Eichels or Barkovs.

Correct. Look how many swings Edmonton needed at the lottery just to come away with a true star to build around.

If this Eichel situation intensifies, I fully suspect Fletcher to be in on it. And I dread many on this forum talking themselves out of the idea of acquiring Eichel.

We can either trade for Eichel, blow it up and pray that we win the lottery/draft/develop our 1C of the future, or pray that we have a 1C of the future in the pipeline. I'd rather pay a premium for the certainty.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Reminder on Eichel...paced for 87 pts then 94 pts the last 2 years before this injury plagued one. Also saw his PPG get better every year he has been in the league.

But don't worry, we have Allison, Foerster and Brink coming!

He plays a lot of minutes, including a lot of garbage time minutes (i.e. when the opposition isn't playing hard).
So he racks up counting stats on a bad team.
PP/60 ES, three best years 2.41, 2.67, 2.40.
last year Couts 2.81, Voracek 2.78, Farabee 2.70, G 2.41, JVR 2.41, Allison 2.29, TK 2.03
season before Couts 2.68, Laughton 2.62, TK 2.51, Voracek 2.43, JVR 2.30, Lindblom 2.03

Eichel is a very good scorer, but we have those guys.
4 guys this season on a 60 point pace, and Farabee and TK not far behind.
Forward scoring is not the highest priority on this team, and Eichel's cap hit would make it hard to make any other moves.

Defense and goalie are more important. They'll probably cost $7-8M between them at a minimum, up to $12M.
 

TheKingPin

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Nov 16, 2005
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I just don’t see many teams winning games against us with

Eichel
Couturier
Frost/Hayes
Laughton

down the middle and Hart in net. We need to even out the D and I would still try and get Hamilton. Even if no Hamilton - you are talking about 2/3 of the game having either Eichel or Couts out there.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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He plays a lot of minutes, including a lot of garbage time minutes (i.e. when the opposition isn't playing hard).
So he racks up counting stats on a bad team.
PP/60 ES, three best years 2.41, 2.67, 2.40.
last year Couts 2.81, Voracek 2.78, Farabee 2.70, G 2.41, JVR 2.41, Allison 2.29, TK 2.03
season before Couts 2.68, Laughton 2.62, TK 2.51, Voracek 2.43, JVR 2.30, Lindblom 2.03

Eichel is a very good scorer, but we have those guys.
4 guys this season on a 60 point pace, and Farabee and TK not far behind.
Forward scoring is not the highest priority on this team, and Eichel's cap hit would make it hard to make any other moves.

Defense and goalie are more important. They'll probably cost $7-8M between them at a minimum, up to $12M.
you are right. We should avoid trying to trade for a possible top 10 point guy. We have Brink coming!!!
 

FLYERSFAN18

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May 31, 2008
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The mental gymnastics on why we shouldn’t want Eichel is going to be interesting until he gets traded.

Our future is definitely better with Hayes as 2C and Patrick, Frost, and Laczynski battling for 3 and 4C until they overtake Hayes. Amirite?
 
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Redpath

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Acquire the 1C of the future, the hardest thing to find in hockey, and fill the holes later. Don't overthink it.

We're ~1 year away from Couturier and Giroux walking in UFA. Do we really want to bet our future on Hayes, Patrick, and Frost being our centers of the next generation? Have we not learned from our mistakes of the past decade?
 

Maurice of Orange

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Feb 5, 2016
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The mental gymnastics on why we shouldn’t want Eichel is going to be interesting until he gets traded.

Our future is definitely better with Hayes as 2C and Patrick, Frost, and Laczynski battling for 3 and 4C until they overtake Hayes. Amirite?
No the future with Hayes at 2C or any center spot is not good going forward.
 

TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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Hayes was a RW in New York, why was he pressed into playing center at the end of his tenure in New York, in Winnipeg and now in philly, when he always seems better suited to RW.
I think he and Miller switched between center and wing when they were on the same line. When Miller left, Hayes became full time center.
 

flyerslducks

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Feb 15, 2017
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Yeah, I’m reticent, also. He’s a good player, but probably the wrong fit, especially at the cap hit. They need more mental toughness, more guys willing to take hits to make plays. That’s not Hamilton.

did we have that when went to the playoffs a year ago???? Literally the same roster haha. If hamillton comes in, our defense looks infinitely better
 

Maurice of Orange

Wahatquenak
Feb 5, 2016
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did we have that when went to the playoffs a year ago???? Literally the same roster haha. If hamillton comes in, our defense looks infinitely better
How are the Flyers paying Hamilton 7-8mil on a flat cap also I don’t trust giving a man named Dougie a 7 year term into his mid 30’s breaking down.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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you are right. We should avoid trying to trade for a possible top 10 point guy. We have Brink coming!!!

2017-18: 52nd
2018-19: 23rd
2019-20: 10th (with a 15.9% Sh, career 10.5%)

If you can get him relatively cheap AND his neck checks out AND they can dump $10M or so to fit his cap hit in, sure, go for it.
But he's not a difference maker, he's not a top ten scorer, he's not a two way center, he's not a dominant player.
He's going to be 25, that is, he's already pretty much at his peak, and he doesn't seem to be a late bloomer.

MacKinnon broke out at 22, which is also when Eichel took a big jump. Is there another jump left in him?
 

deadhead

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Again....Eichel increased his PPG every year while playing with trash. He is a dominant C....watch him play.

He didn't play with trash, Skinner had 40 goals, Reinhart is a solid RW, Olofsson is a top PP goal scorer, Okposo a solid veteran RW.
Where the trash resides on bad teams is generally down the roster, as we saw for years with a top line, half a second line, and then two subpar lnes.

Eichel plays a lot of minutes, including 3+ a game on the PP, which explains his PP scoring.
He has stamina, but I suspect also takes a lot of plays off like many top offensive forwards.
 

Redpath

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Sep 30, 2011
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Even if Eichel isn't a difference maker, or a top 10 scorer, or dominant, when and where are we going to have a chance again to get a center guaranteed as good as he is? We can either "settle" for Eichel, or hope that we luck into a player even better, while simultaneously wasting our defensive "core" and Carter Hart's RFA years.

It is time to shit or get off the pot. And rebuilding guarantees us no more success or any better players than we already have.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
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Again....Eichel increased his PPG every year while playing with trash. He is a dominant C....watch him play.

Not really a surprise those raw numbers above aren’t very representative. Eichel is 14th in points/game from 2017-2020. Beside Kane and Panarin, everyone in the neighborhood has a teammate or two also in the top 20-30. Reinhardt is 92nd. He’s phenomenal offensively, and it doesn’t take much of a visual sample to see his insane talent — we’re well past the point of absurdity here.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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My concern isn’t with his level of talent or attitude. I see him wanting out as a positive, and not settling for having a career wasted.

The concern, and it better be checked well - is his health. Back/neck things I don’t like.

Flyers better be in on him. It’s neglectful to not.
 

flyerslducks

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Feb 15, 2017
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2017-18: 52nd
2018-19: 23rd
2019-20: 10th (with a 15.9% Sh, career 10.5%)

If you can get him relatively cheap AND his neck checks out AND they can dump $10M or so to fit his cap hit in, sure, go for it.
But he's not a difference maker, he's not a top ten scorer, he's not a two way center, he's not a dominant player.
He's going to be 25, that is, he's already pretty much at his peak, and he doesn't seem to be a late bloomer.

MacKinnon broke out at 22, which is also when Eichel took a big jump. Is there another jump left in him?

would love to see your top 20 centers ranking. cant believe you don't see eichel as a top center in the league or a difference-maker because he plays on the worst team ever
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Not really a surprise those raw numbers above aren’t very representative. Eichel is 14th in points/game from 2017-2020. Beside Kane and Panarin, everyone in the neighborhood has a teammate or two also in the top 20-30. Reinhardt is 92nd. He’s phenomenal offensively, and it doesn’t take much of a visual sample to see his insane talent — we’re well past the point of absurdity here.
Well he did get to play with Okposo....that solid RW vet.

:silly:
 
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FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
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I had the same though, FN. It originated with picturing going to Philadelphia for a Cup parade, but I don't think I'll live that long. We should start making tentative plans for offseason 2022.

I’d be down, at some point in the next few years! I’ve never had a chance to see these guys at home, or really visit outside of ND when it comes to the States.

Tailgates are an awesome time!
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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would love to see your top 20 centers ranking. cant believe you don't see eichel as a top center in the league or a difference-maker because he plays on the worst team ever

Didn't say he wasn't a top center, but he's not Crosby, MacDavid, MacKinnon or Bergeron or even Couts.
Couts has scored at a similar or higher level, but is also a perennial Selke finalist. We just don't appreciate what we have, "grass is greener syndrome."

In a vacuum, he'd be a great addition, but we're not getting him for free, he'll cost assets and a lot of cap room.
So unless you can work a deal like TK and Ghost (taking $10M off the books) and say #13, you could end up worse off.
And that's before you take the neck into consideration, Eichel wants an experimental procedure that still unproven.

You need at least 10-11 good players to compete at the top, two top lines (one top 10-15, the second 30-45), 3-4 20+ minute quality defensemen, a top ten goalie. So a marginal improvement at one spot can't come at the expense of other key positions.
 

Bigkarl

Registered User
Dec 27, 2017
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Wait, did I just read that Eichel isn't even a difference maker?

edit:, Now I see, if a player isn't Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon, Bergeron, or Couts, he's not a difference maker. There are only 5 difference making centers in the sport...
 
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