Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[MBH]

I've been saying for 2 years that the timing of this rebuild made no sense if Doughty and Kopitar were not included in the players shipped away. And now the chickens have come home to roost. Blake has created this situation and there are only two ways out...(1) become Buffalo for the next 4-5 years (during which Blake gets fired next year) or (2) use existing assets (cap space, draft picks, prospects) to build a competitive team now.

People who want to pursue a Buffalo approach are ignoring so many factors that make that a very difficult sell for AEG, their employees, STH, players, and sponsors. And at the end of the 4-5 year tunnel of misery there is absolutely no guarantee that the team is successful in building a solid team. This is a bad bad situation that Blake and Luc have willingly entered into.

Unfortunately, this is true.
The other thing is, you don't have any really good defensemen in the next wave.
Bjornfot and Klague could be OK. But you don't have a future Doughty.
I think I'd look really hard at trading away Doughty and Kopitar.
But instead of picks, I'd trade for 20-year-old prospects or 21-or 22-year-old good players who still have room to grow.

 

[johnjm22]

Highly unlikely Eichel wants to come to L.A. Generally you don't want to trade for players who don't even want to go to you. See how that worked out for the BJ's with Carter.

Then you have the injury concerns.

On top of that, even though the Kings have the ammo, the chances are still relatively slim you could get Eichel if you tried considering LA is one of 32 teams in the league.

As for signing big name UFA's, that almost never works out. Teams usually regret it. Nevermind the fact that the UFA actually has to WANT to sign with you.

The responsible thing to do is stay the course. Keep building. Good things will come in time.

 

[KingLB]

Highly unlikely Eichel wants to come to L.A. Generally you don't want to trade for players who don't even want to go to you. See how that worked out for the BJ's with Carter.

Then you have the injury concerns.

On top of that, even though the Kings have the ammo, the chances are still relatively slim you could get Eichel if you tried considering LA is one of 32 teams in the league.

As for signing big name UFA's, that almost never works out. Teams usually regret it. Nevermind the fact that the UFA actually has to WANT to sign with you.

The responsible thing to do is stay the course. Keep building. Good things will come in time.

In a Flat cap world, the only teams that can take Eichel will be teams with lots of cap space. Those teams are almost all bad. So that’s the choice he will have to make.

 

[tomd]

Highly unlikely Eichel wants to come to L.A. Generally you don't want to trade for players who don't even want to go to you. See how that worked out for the BJ's with Carter.

Then you have the injury concerns.

On top of that, even though the Kings have the ammo, the chances are still relatively slim you could get Eichel if you tried considering LA is one of 32 teams in the league.

As for signing big name UFA's, that almost never works out. Teams usually regret it. Nevermind the fact that the UFA actually has to WANT to sign with you.

The responsible thing to do is stay the course. Keep building. Good things will come in time.

The stay the course strategy now needs to also talk about what happens with 11 and 8. The fantasy that they would willingly go along with a lengthy rebuild were destroyed a couple of days ago.

 

[KopitarFAN]

The stay the course strategy now needs to also talk about what happens with 11 and 8. The fantasy that they would willingly go along with a lengthy rebuild were destroyed a couple of days ago.

You might be right, it might be time to cash in on 2 1/2 years of collecting assets to try an build a winner around Kopi and Dewey, or look to move them and go all in on the kids.

 

[Herby]

You might be right, it might be time to cash in on 2 1/2 years of collecting assets to try an build a winner around Kopi and Dewey, or look to move them and go all in on the kids.

Either option is fine by me.

I am personally on the cash in and go for Eichel wagon. But I am ok with trading Doughty and possibly even Kopitar and blowing it up and being awful for the next 3 years (especially with potential generational prospects on the horizon in 2022 and 2023 drafts)

Anything but the nonsense we have been doing for the past 3 years. This has been a return to mid-90's mismanagement the last three years.

 

[johnjm22]

The stay the course strategy now needs to also talk about what happens with 11 and 8. The fantasy that they would willingly go along with a lengthy rebuild were destroyed a couple of days ago.

I love 11 and 8, but I really don't care what they think.

Fans and players are like kids. They want instant gratification NOW.

Management needs to be the adults and make the responsible decisions that are best for the long term of the franchise.

 

[SFKingshomer]

It’s pretty shortsighted to build a playoff team around 2 players on the back 9 of their careers. We might make the playoffs and win a round but they are so far off from being a contender. This screams SJ with Karlson even though they were already a playoff team. Trading a bunch of assets now could just as easily blow up in their face. You make big moves to win a cup, not make the playoffs.

 

[Herby]

In a Flat cap world, the only teams that can take Eichel will be teams with lots of cap space. Those teams are almost all bad. So that’s the choice he will have to make.

The Kings are in the best position of any team in the league to get Eichel with the prospect capital and the cap space. That is why we are always brought up.

And it is nothing like the Carter situation, Carter signed a 12 year deal because he wanted to stay in Philly and was almost immediately traded to a terrible team in arguably the most undesirable hockey market in the United States. Eichel would be going to Los Angeles to play on an up and coming team with two Hall of Famers on the roster.

Eichel is pushing to get traded, Carter wasn't.

 

[SFKingshomer]

The stay the course strategy now needs to also talk about what happens with 11 and 8. The fantasy that they would willingly go along with a lengthy rebuild were destroyed a couple of days ago.

You’re all about accountability...how about 11 and 8 show a more consistent effort the past 7 years? They can look in the mirror and realize they are a big part of why the team had to rebuild. Some players that are still good were shipped off because it clearly wasn’t going to work as constructed. I’m not interested in adding a 3rd high dollar player to build around 2 inconsistent players on the back 9 of their career. You trade an unprotected 1st and multiple other quality assets and it blows up in your face then what?

 

[tomd]

I love 11 and 8, but I really don't care what they think.

Fans and players are like kids. They want instant gratification NOW.

Management needs to be the adults and make the responsible decisions that are best for the long term of the franchise.

I just don't see an organization like AEG completely tearing down the franchise in the hopes of being better in five years. The only franchises who have done that in the past were almost exclusively ones that were cash strapped or had ownership issues. I think you are seriously underestimating how much pain you're asking AEG, their employees, STH, players, and sponsors to absorb. The real world consequences to choose to be horrible are enormous.

 

[Telos]

I love the idea of getting Eichel, but his injury makes things very complicated. There is no gun to LA's head, maybe to Blake's, but we have no proof of that yet. The Kings are still in a great position asset and cap space-wise.

Doughty is a little delusional, but he is also just passionate and wants to win ASAP before he enters the twilight of his career. The Carter trade needed to be made, and could wind up being very good depending on how the Penguins do or his time with them next season. It also wasn't the difference between this being a bad team and a bubble team, it has always been a bad team this season.

It's a tough call. This offseason will be the toughest Blake has ever faced. He has motivations to go in all directions and the freedom to do it. His entire GM career with the Kings will likely be judged from what he does right now moving forward. Tough spot.

 

[johnjm22]

I just don't see an organization like AEG completely tearing down the franchise

They already have.

The only franchises who have done that in the past were almost exclusively ones that were cash strapped or had ownership issues. I think you are seriously underestimating how much pain you're asking AEG, their employees, STH, players, and sponsors to absorb. The real world consequences to choose to be horrible are enormous.

Why do you think AEG had to lay off staff?

AEG stands for Anschutz Entertainment Group. They do live events. How many live events have been going on for the past year? They've obviously been bleeding cash.

I seriously doubt they're going to be in the mood to add significant payroll to this team, when in fact they've been cutting payroll for the entire company.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Vilardi, Bjornfot, 21 1st for Werenski

Kempe, Turcotte, 1st in 22 and 23 for Eichel.

Those might not even be enough for CBJ and BUF but assume this is done. Put together a roster now and realize that this team is still not a contender while having torn down their future.

 

[tomd]

They already have.


Why do you think AEG had to lay off staff?

AEG stands for Anschutz Entertainment Group. They do live events. How many live events have been going on for the past year? They've obviously been bleeding cash.

I seriously doubt they're going to be in the mood to add significant payroll to this team, when in fact they've been cutting payroll for the entire company.

Total teardown means trading 11 and 8...they haven't gone there yet.

And yes, it's been a tough year for all entertainment companies. And yes, they've had to cut costs. But the last thing they want to cut at this point is the entertainment product itself. They desperately need people back in the building and sponsors to support the team. Having a product that literally no one will want to watch for the next 3-5 years seems completely the opposite of what a smart company would do. And finally, they are smart enough to know that they'll get more STH and novice fans attending games if they just offer a competitive entertaining product. A product that is playoff competitive. Most fans go to the game to see the home team actually provide some entertainment...not dreams of a championship in the distant future while watching an utter disgrace on the ice.

 

[Herby]

Vilardi, Bjornfot, 21 1st for Werenski

Kempe, Turcotte, 1st in 22 and 23 for Eichel.

Those might not even be enough for CBJ and BUF but assume this is done. Put together a roster now and realize that this team is still not a contender while having torn down their future.

The Kings are probably not getting Eichel and Werenski, who has suggested that?

But even in your fantasy proposal. The Kings would have Eichel (25), Werenski (24), Byfield (19), Kaliyev (20), JAD (22) Kupari (21), Faber (19), Thomas (21), Fagemo (21), Anderson (21), Andersson (23), Madden (22), Grans (19)

How is that tearing down the future? That is insane. You do realize that there aren't going to be enough spots for all these guys if they were to hit, right? Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari, JAD, Thomas are not all going to be playing on the same Kings team, ever.

We have reached the point in this discussion where trading for 24 year old stars like Eichel and Werenski without trading the 2 best prospects in the organization is somehow "tearing down the future"

Sometimes the stuff I read here just blows my mind.

 

[johnjm22]

Kings had the actual highest payroll in the NHL in Dean's last year and missed the playoffs. I'm sure AEG was thrilled about that.

Then new management comes in.

Blake/Luc: "Can we sign Kovalchuck for 18M?"
AEG: "Okay."
The result? FAILURE.

Blake/Luc: "Can we get Todd McClellan for 25M?"
AEG: "Okay."
The result? FAILURE.

Blake/Luc: "Hey I know these other moves didn't work out, and I know AEG has been bleeding cash for 14 month, but can we acquire Eichel? He's owed 50M over the next 5 years."
AEG: "Sure no problem. Sounds like a great idea. What could go wrong?"

 

[Rusty Batch]

Vilardi, Bjornfot, 21 1st for Werenski

Kempe, Turcotte, 1st in 22 and 23 for Eichel.

Those might not even be enough for CBJ and BUF but assume this is done. Put together a roster now and realize that this team is still not a contender while having torn down their future.

Just looking at your Eichel trade. We would still have a lot of cap room to add to the team. And a bunch of young players on cheap elc contracts to contribute over the next few years. The only way that team is not a contender is if Byfield and the rest of our incredibly deep prospect pool is a massive let down.
I wouldn't deal all that for werenski.

But even if we did it. What is the future to you?

Seems like it would be an excellent team for many years. With still a very deep prospect pool coming up. Sucks to lose some first round picks but I mean our team would be loaded.

 

[SFKingshomer]

The Kings are probably not getting Eichel and Werenski, who has suggested that?

But even in your fantasy proposal. The Kings would have Eichel (25), Werenski (24), Byfield (19), Kaliyev (20), JAD (22) Kupari (21), Faber (19), Thomas (21), Fagemo (21), Anderson (21), Andersson (23), Madden (22), Grans (19)

How is that tearing down the future? That is insane.

The on ice roster still isn’t competing for a cup and that is my point. They need more than 2 great players to be a contender.

 

[8randyn]

Despite Gabriel Vilardi going through what he has he is tied for 16th in points from the 2017 draft class. Only two players ahead of him have played less games and the players ahead of him have played 30-140+ more games than him.

 

[Herby]

The on ice roster still isn’t competing for a cup and that is my point. They need more than 2 great players to be a contender.

The Kings become a lock playoff team in your hypothetical situation (barring any injuries to that potential Big 4). And Eichel and Werenski are both 24 right now, you act as if they are 30. Eichel and Werenski are stars in their prime with about a decade of decent hockey left, plus you have Kopitar and QB which gives you a 1A/1B situation down the middle for the entire prime of Eichel's career. Aren't you the guy who is obsessed with all things centers and despises wingers? This seems like a team you would get behind. No team in the sport would match what the Kings have for the present and future with Eichel/AK/Byfield trio.

Same thing on the back end, in your scenario you immediately have one of, if not the best 1-2 punch in the league on the blueline for the net 3-4 years or whenever Drew starts to fall off.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I've been saying for 2 years that the timing of this rebuild made no sense if Doughty and Kopitar were not included in the players shipped away. And now the chickens have come home to roost. Blake has created this situation and there are only two ways out...(1) become Buffalo for the next 4-5 years (during which Blake gets fired next year) or (2) use existing assets (cap space, draft picks, prospects) to build a competitive team now.

People who want to pursue a Buffalo approach are ignoring so many factors that make that a very difficult sell for AEG, their employees, STH, players, and sponsors. And at the end of the 4-5 year tunnel of misery there is absolutely no guarantee that the team is successful in building a solid team. This is a bad bad situation that Blake and Luc have willingly entered into.

Blake never intended on rebuilding, and it's just not easy getting rid of contracts. The worst thing to happen was Kopitar's MVP type season. It probably gave Doughty too much hope, and so since he comfortable here anyway, he re-signed.

But, as has been the case since the Cup in 2012, every move since, other than the Regher and Gaborik trades, was bad timing. Both GMs got screwed by the players.

 

[SFKingshomer]

The Kings become a lock playoff team in your hypothetical situation (barring any injuries to that potential Big 4). And Eichel and Werenski are both 24 right now, you act as if they are 30. Eichel and Werenski are stars in their prime with about a decade of decent hockey left, plus you have Kopitar and QB which gives you a 1A/1B situation down the middle for the entire prime of Eichel's career. Aren't you the guy who is obsessed with all things centers and despises wingers? This seems like a team you would get behind. No team in the sport would match what the Kings have for the present and future with Eichel/AK/Byfield trio.

Same thing on the back end, in your scenario you immediately have one of, if not the best 1-2 punch in the league on the blueline for the net 3-4 years or whenever Drew starts to fall off.

I don’t see them as much more than a mediocre playoff team and that’s not what they should be trying to build. Can you name team that has had success moving from a quick rebuild to a cup? STL is probably the answer but they had an older group overall and more depth.

 

[Herby]

I don’t see them as much more than a mediocre playoff team and that’s not what they should be trying to build. Can you name team that has had success moving from a quick rebuild to a cup? STL is probably the answer but they had an older group overall and more depth.

Do I think they are cup favorites? No
Do I think they could contend if some things fell their way? Yes
Do I think that gives them an incredible foundation to compete for cups for the next decade? Yes

Your hypothetical trades give the Kings absolutely incredible strength down the middle and on the blue line. Strength the Kings are very unlikely to have strictly from developing from within. The odds are the Kings have no one in their system who will be as good as either one of those guys. And they are, as I type this 24 and 23 years old.

I am still amazed that you would think having those names and ages I listed in the previous post would be "tearing down the future"

 

[Herby]

Keith Tkachuk is my favorite player of all time and I hate that we didn't fall into having one of his kids on the Kings.

They both play a style that says "Keith Tkachuk is my dad" and it's a style that's sorely lacking across the NHL but even more so on the Kings.

Another "what-if" had Robitaille just went full tear down after 2017 instead of trying to polish the turd by promoting two guys who sucked at their jobs the previous three years and trying to compete.

The 2018 draft could have provided the Kings with a chance at a difference making young player like Tkachuk (or Hughes, Dahlin etc).

2017-2018 season/offseason was one of the most damaging seasons in Kings history. I think it's the single biggest reason we are in the spot we are now right now. It was a fork in the road for the organization and they just went the wrong way, period. I think we are talking about Game 1 of our playoff series and our return to the playoffs at this very moment had he made the right choice.