Prospect Info: 2020-2021 Prospects Thread

[McDNicks17]

The problem with this analysis is that there isn't a single bottom pairing D in the league who skates like Broberg at that size. To completely diminish the importance of a skating/size combo for a Dman in the current NHL is a bit much. We're also acting as if the rest of his tools are all below average for a prospect. They aren't. Does he have an elite trait outside of his skating/size combo? No, but his other tools are all far better than he is given credit for. That doesn't mean they aren't without flaws or areas that he needs to improve on, but he's not even 20 years old. Again, my biggest issue with the criticisms of him are people stating he needs to show an elite quality, and then totally ignore his elite skating/size combo. If anyone can show me a bottom 6 NHLer who lacks elite traits in other areas, but who is 6'3+ and a top 3% skater in the league I will gladly listen.

There aren't many bottom pairing D that skate like him because those guys usually end up overseas. Teams don't want inconsistent, unreliable guys on their bottom pairing that just skate around really fast.

People want a standout skill other than size/speed because those things are basically pointless without an actual hockey skill to combine with them.

 

[McFlyingV]

There aren't many bottom pairing D that skate like him because those guys usually end up overseas. Teams don't want inconsistent, unreliable guys on their bottom pairing that just skate around really fast.

People want a standout skill other than size/speed because those things are basically pointless without an actual hockey skill to combine with them.

The thing is Klefbom doesn't really have a standout skill either. He's just good or above average in most areas, and it allowed him to be a very strong 2/3 in this league. I think worrying about a defining trait is a bit unnecessary in this case when the player already has an upper tier combo of elite size and speed. Inconsistent play is extremely common in young D prospects, so that really shouldn't be a worry at this point. Give him 2 years in the AHL and if there isn't a ton of progress then it might be a good time to start worrying that his elite skating/size combo won't be enough. I don't think you can actually find a Dman who skates like Broberg at that size though who bottomed out as a bottom pairing/Euro bound Dman. They just don't really exist.

 

[McDNicks17]

The thing is Klefbom doesn't really have a standout skill either. He's just good or above average in most areas, and it allowed him to be a very strong 2/3 in this league. I think worrying about a defining trait is a bit unnecessary in this case when the player already has an upper tier combo of elite size and speed. Inconsistent play is extremely common in young D prospects, so that really shouldn't be a worry at this point. Give him 2 years in the AHL and if there isn't a ton of progress then it might be a good time to start worrying that his elite skating/size combo won't be enough. I don't think you can actually find a Dman who skates like Broberg at that size though who bottomed out as a bottom pairing/Euro bound Dman. They just don't really exist.

I'd say Klefbom's standout skill is hockey sense. He never looked as lost as Broberg does when he was back in Sweden.

There might not be any guys overseas at the same size and skating, but there's tons of guys with similar skating. I don't really think a few inches in height makes much difference especially when Broberg doesn't really use that size.

 

[McFlyingV]

I'd say Klefbom's standout skill is hockey sense. He never looked as lost as Broberg does when he was back in Sweden.

There might not be any guys overseas at the same size and skating, but there's tons of guys with similar skating. I don't really think a few inches in height makes much difference especially when Broberg doesn't really use that size.

Idk Klef's hockey sense definitely isn't elite. It's good but he still made some questionable decisions from time to time.

Maybe our opinion on Broberg's skating differs, but there aren't many guys who skate like him outside of the NHL. He's an absolutely elite skater with blazing speed. Size is important beyond hitting, it allows you to keep body position and a larger wing span to break up plays. As he matures and gets stronger I expect him to use his body more.

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

Hat trick for Mcleod today wow

Gordie howe style .

 

[McDNicks17]

Idk Klef's hockey sense definitely isn't elite. It's good but he still made some questionable decisions from time to time.

Maybe our opinion on Broberg's skating differs, but there aren't many guys who skate like him outside of the NHL. He's an absolutely elite skater with blazing speed. Size is important beyond hitting, it allows you to keep body position and a larger wing span to break up plays. As he matures and gets stronger I expect him to use his body more.

I just don't think skating is all that valuable without the hockey sense to use it. No matter how elite it is.

Most guys like Broberg just skate themselves into turnovers faster with that skating.

 

[North]

I’m not saying Broberg was the right pick. I’m not saying he was the wrong one. I don’t know what he’s going to be yet.

He’ll finally be in North America next season so we’ll get to see where he’s at.

It’s far too soon to guess what he might top out as.

 

[McFlyingV]

I just don't think skating is all that valuable without the hockey sense to use it. No matter how elite it is.

Most guys like Broberg just skate themselves into turnovers faster with that skating.

That's fair, but I'm also not as down on the rest of his abilities as some are. He still shows a lot of the inconsistencies that many young D do, but I have never seen him bad overall in any of the other skills being discussed. Needs some maturation, but he's not exactly working with nothing as a starting point.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I just don't think skating is all that valuable without the hockey sense to use it. No matter how elite it is.

Most guys like Broberg just skate themselves into turnovers faster with that skating.

So, like Nurse? Seem's like he has developed his hockey sense over time.

 

[ImmuneEH]

So, like Nurse? Seem's like he has developed his hockey sense over time.

Not calling you out, but it's funny how the narrative changes.

Leading up to the draft, people were scared of Broberg because they didn't want him to become Nurse. At the time Nurse was thought to have the raw tools but lacked the hockey sense and skated himself into trouble/couldn't create much with his skating often enough.

Now it's like, "This kid has the physical tools Nurse has, he can develop the hockey sense like Nurse was able to".

 

[McFlyingV]

Not calling you out, but it's funny how the narrative changes.

Leading up to the draft, people were scared of Broberg because they didn't want him to become Nurse. At the time Nurse was thought to have the raw tools but lacked the hockey sense and skated himself into trouble/couldn't create much with his skating often enough.

Now it's like, "This kid has the physical tools Nurse has, he can develop the hockey sense like Nurse was able to".

I think the biggest issue is hockey sense is highly subjective to the person watching them. There's a massive learning curve in general to play D at the NHL level compared to other positions and it's why D often take a while to truly reach their potential. Broberg makes mistakes just like Nurse did at a young age, but I still think there's a lot to like in his overall package. With the way some people talk about him you'd think he can't make a 5 foot pass, misses the net by 50 feet, turns the puck over every time he touches it, and is always 20 feet from the guy he's supposed to be defending. None of this is true of course. He doesn't stand out as having elite passing/vision, an elite shot, elite position or hockey IQ, but he's not bad and doesn't have major weaknesses at any of these things. What he does have is a decent to good overall game that has room to grow as he matures, and elite skating that very few 6'3+ dmen possess.

 

[McTonyBrar]

So, like Nurse? Seem's like he has developed his hockey sense over time.

Nurse has learned that, over time, it’s best to slow the game down at times. He use to panic before and create turnovers that way. Broberg will learn as well after experience. People should know that he’s only 20-21 years old

 

[McFlyingV]

Nurse has learned that, over time, it’s best to slow the game down at times. He use to panic before and create turnovers that way. Broberg will learn as well after experience. People should know that he’s only 20-21 years old

He's not even 20 yet, he's still 19. He was one of the younger players in the draft.

 

[OiledUp]

I think everyone is overstating how raw Broberg is and overreacting to him playing less after the WJCs and not getting ice time in the playoffs. He still averaged over 17 minutes per game in the SHL, the third best pro league in the world, this season at 19 on a good team with a strong D group which in itself tells us he's ahead the vast majority of NHL prospects as far as development goes.
He didn't necessarily shine(nor did he suck)in those minutes and he's been very inconsistent, even within games, mixing great plays with major mistakes but it's not an easy league for young D. Especially guys who are at their best when they play an active and difficult style like Broberg.
He IS raw which makes the fact he's playing at the level he is all the more impressive, hasn't grown into that lanky body yet and lots of stuff needs finetuning, but he's not this super raw massive project with only size and skating and loads of issues. He's actually pretty well rounded just really up and down in his performances, he'd probably be a ppg player in any junior league in the world but he wouldn't learn nearly as much of the lessons he need to become a good pro player down the line since he'd get by on his exceptional skating, reach and skill combo so him being somewhat exposed in the SHL is a good thing for his development.
Also worth mentioning is that while tall he's not that big yet, needs to fill out that frame, he struggles with one on one battles against pro players due to it which has made him wear the horn on a bunch of goals against this season but getting stronger is just a matter of time with that type of super athletic frame.

 

[McFlyingV]

I think everyone is overstating how raw Broberg is and overreacting to him playing less after the WJCs and not getting ice time in the playoffs. He still averaged over 17 minutes per game in the SHL, the third best pro league in the world, this season at 19 on a good team with a strong D group which in itself tells us he's ahead the vast majority of NHL prospects as far as development goes.
He didn't necessarily shine(nor did he suck)in those minutes and he's been very inconsistent, even within games, mixing great plays with major mistakes but it's not an easy league for young D. Especially guys who are at their best when they play an active and difficult style like Broberg.
He IS raw which makes the fact he's playing at the level he is all the more impressive, hasn't grown into that lanky body yet and lots of stuff needs finetuning, but he's not this super raw massive project with only size and skating and loads of issues. He's actually pretty well rounded just really up and down in his performances, he'd probably be a ppg player in any junior league in the world but he wouldn't learn nearly as much of the lessons he need to become a good pro player down the line since he'd get by on his exceptional skating, reach and skill combo so him being somewhat exposed in the SHL is a good thing for his development.
Also worth mentioning is that while tall he's not that big yet, needs to fill out that frame, he struggles with one on one battles against pro players due to it which has made him wear the horn on a bunch of goals against this season but getting stronger is just a matter of time with that type of super athletic frame.

Good post and couldn't agree more. I can pretty much guarantee that if he were playing in the CHL he would be getting praised for end to end rushes preying on lower competition. There's a reason why most young D don't put up big numbers in the SHL. He's definitely a lot less physically developed than a guy like Seider, or a guy like Hedman when he was drafted. He has a lot of filling out and maturing to do physically and that will iron out a lot of the consistency issues we see in his defensive game.

You also described his play very well. It's not that he doesn't have tools besides his skating, it's that he doesn't have the consistency in his game to consider them elite or very good at this point. For every fumble of the puck, poor pass, or poor rushing attempt I see the opposite with good displays of puck handling, good passes, and good productive rushes. The skills are there, they just don't get shown off as frequently in the SHL as they would playing in the CHL against far worse competition.

 

[LaGu]

I'd say Klefbom's standout skill is hockey sense. He never looked as lost as Broberg does when he was back in Sweden.

There might not be any guys overseas at the same size and skating, but there's tons of guys with similar skating. I don't really think a few inches in height makes much difference especially when Broberg doesn't really use that size.

Really? I mean Klefbom was scratched several times and even sent down to juniors in his first season after the draft. He definitely was lost during the first part of that season.
In his draft+1 year his first 10 games are pretty similar to Broberg's this season.
Klefbom: 10 GP 0 G 3 A 19:10 TOI/GP
Broberg: 10 GP 1 G 4 A 19:40 TOI/GP

Stats watching is of course one thing, and lately I have not seen him, but I think he started out pretty good this season. He was playing north of 20 mins per night up until the WJCs, and that was when things took a bit of a turn for worse.

 

[Zaddy]

What I like about Broberg is that he seems to have a good work ethic. As Nurse has shown, if you work hard you can overcome only having average hockey sense to become a very good player. Broberg is still very much a project and will take years before he becomes a high-end player, but with enough time he could get there. I think long-term he will turn out to be a fine pick, but the frustrating part is just that: it will take time. For a team that wants to contend ASAP that's not very helpful.

And as I've said many times before, the problem with Broberg too is that he doesn't add anything this team doesn't already have, and I don't think that players of his ilk (well-rounded but not elite top4 d) are that hard to find, relatively speaking. With Klefbom's longevity in question Broberg could be more useful to this team than initially thought, but I still don't really see him moving the needle as much as other players in the same draft could've done. Broberg won't be a failed pick, but when you look back at this draft 10 years from now I don't think you'll say that the Oilers maximized the value with this pick.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm surprised that fans were apparently prepared to throw away RNH and waste a top ten pick on a player to be used to 'replace' a completely healthy player in his prime.

I look forward to having a 22 year old Broberg available to us for two seasons on an ELC when Darnell Nurse gets his raise.

Comparing their very distant 3rd best forward to their #1 defenseman is such a ridiculous argument. RNH is a lot more replaceable than Darnell Nurse, lets be real here.
Not to mention that young forwards generally transition into the league easier than young defensemen.

You might not want to believe it but if they had Zegras in hand, it would make it a little easier to move on from RNH and it would also create a little less leverage for RNH and his camp.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He's not even 20 yet, he's still 19. He was one of the younger players in the draft.

Defence is the hardest position to play at the elite level and development is generally slower. Broberg's spent his (still) teenage years playing against men in one of the best professional leagues in the world. He's been a captain and leader on a national junior team program. There's strong character and a player whose faced some strong adversity this year and, in the case of the U20, grit, resiliency and mental strength to gut out injury. Not ideal that Broberg seems to be withering on the vine as his pro team competes for playoff wins, it is time to get him to North America and under club control where the priority is to teach and grow the high potential of this young player. Starting from elite skating and shutdown, two-way game and by reports highly coachable there is a formidable package to work with.

Watching Darnell Nurse's game blossom over time is a good reminder of the time and experience to know where the upward mark is with top d prospects. We're at the starting point with Broberg but he has had some good growth and development work that builds character. Now for some coaching to nurture and refine a very strong raw physical package in a player viewed as a future important component for this organization. Lots to like imo.

 

[Giggleplex]

I can't believe he's still a teenager holy crap! I have time for him.

 

[Aerchon]

Idk Klef's hockey sense definitely isn't elite. It's good but he still made some questionable decisions from time to time.

Maybe our opinion on Broberg's skating differs, but there aren't many guys who skate like him outside of the NHL. He's an absolutely elite skater with blazing speed. Size is important beyond hitting, it allows you to keep body position and a larger wing span to break up plays. As he matures and gets stronger I expect him to use his body more.

I just don't think skating is all that valuable without the hockey sense to use it. No matter how elite it is.

Most guys like Broberg just skate themselves into turnovers faster with that skating.

I've only watched him in 2 WJC but I watched every shift of Broberg's.

You are grossly exaggerating his skating ability. As well as how it can impact the game period let alone at the nhl level.

If Broberg's speed/skating was that elite, especially combined with his size/reach, he would have a huge advantage in the defensive zone. He obviously does not. Not at the WJC or SHL level let alone nhl.

Nhl will have more parity, more start and stopping, more elite edgework...

Broberg is a silky smooth forward skating defenceman. His backwards skating was an area scouting had reported needing work and from what I've seen his edgework speed/edges/size/passing doesn't mean he ends up getting to pucks quick enough in the defensive zone to move the puck out.

Don't get me wrong he has lots of time to put it all together but McDNicks17 is right, without the IQ to use it properly speed isn't enough. And hockey IQ was another area scouting had as a weakness of Broberg.

His solid but unspectacular WJCs and SHL seasons to date certainly suggest that his speed and size are not enough to be dominant in those leagues... yet.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I've only watched him in 2 WJC but I watched every shift of Broberg's.

You are grossly exaggerating his skating ability. As well as how it can impact the game period let alone at the nhl level.

If Broberg's speed/skating was that elite, especially combined with his size/reach, he would have a huge advantage in the defensive zone. He obviously does not. Not at the WJC or SHL level let alone nhl.

Nhl will have more parity, more start and stopping, more elite edgework...

Broberg is a silky smooth forward skating defenceman. His backwards skating was an area scouting had reported needing work and from what I've seen his edgework speed/edges/size/passing doesn't mean he ends up getting to pucks quick enough in the defensive zone to move the puck out.

Don't get me wrong he has lots of time to put it all together but McDNicks17 is right, without the IQ to use it properly speed isn't enough. And hockey IQ was another area scouting had as a weakness of Broberg.

His solid but unspectacular WJCs and SHL seasons to date certainly suggest that his speed and size are not enough to be dominant in those leagues... yet.

A 19 year old not dominating the SHL. Shocking

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I've only watched him in 2 WJC but I watched every shift of Broberg's.

You are grossly exaggerating his skating ability. As well as how it can impact the game period let alone at the nhl level.

If Broberg's speed/skating was that elite, especially combined with his size/reach, he would have a huge advantage in the defensive zone. He obviously does not. Not at the WJC or SHL level let alone nhl.

Nhl will have more parity, more start and stopping, more elite edgework...

Broberg is a silky smooth forward skating defenceman. His backwards skating was an area scouting had reported needing work and from what I've seen his edgework speed/edges/size/passing doesn't mean he ends up getting to pucks quick enough in the defensive zone to move the puck out.

Don't get me wrong he has lots of time to put it all together but McDNicks17 is right, without the IQ to use it properly speed isn't enough. And hockey IQ was another area scouting had as a weakness of Broberg.

His solid but unspectacular WJCs and SHL seasons to date certainly suggest that his speed and size are not enough to be dominant in those leagues... yet.

Highly dubious citing this Board's ability to project teenage defensemen given many placed Nurse's upside into a very limited box and made a constant routine out of critiquing Larsson's ability as a quality NHL defensemen. Where you see limited hockey IQ, I see a growth mindset with a teenager that's outstepped his development at a professional level of competition, captain and lettered on his peer aged national junior team. He's had some real adversity with a disappointing final U20 tournament with injury and team failure and now a deeply diminished depth role on his pro team's playoff drive. It's what he does with this adversity that will be important.

This player of course will need to evolve and develop his game for North America style of play. He'll be in excellent hands to do so in Bakersfield and has shown the ability to play in deep end circumstances of professional hockey and quite likely picks up the technical changes you mention above. Comes down to your question of hockey IQ ... I am much more optimistic about this when considering the character and strong mindset of the player involved. Question marks ... for sure, there's no certainty for the great majority of prospects.

Build from the back out unlike the Oilers focus on finesse smallish forwards through multiple rebuild(s). I like Holland's first pick professionalizing a systemic failing organization. And I see a lot of positive intangibles to complement a strong physical package. No mistaking this is a raw prospect but one where I see the promise and you see differently.

 

[belair]

Comparing their very distant 3rd best forward to their #1 defenseman is such a ridiculous argument. RNH is a lot more replaceable than Darnell Nurse, lets be real here.
Not to mention that young forwards generally transition into the league easier than young defensemen.

You might not want to believe it but if they had Zegras in hand, it would make it a little easier to move on from RNH and it would also create a little less leverage for RNH and his camp.

What about this was hard to understand? The draft isn't there for you to walk away from vital parts of your roster. That line of thinking would have your team literally running in place.

Are Broberg or Bouchard going to help us in Nurse discussions? What a ridiculous suggestion. Holloway's name won't come up in RNH negotiations either. Players with no history of production in this league won't provide any leverage over a player with a decade of it.

 

[Preposterone]

Broberg just took a pretty nasty puck to the face. Blood on the ice and looked like he might have lost a couple chiclets. So much for that beautiful face...