2020/2021 line up

Sweatred

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I don't draft the player to begin with. That is the point of the interviews before the draft, so you can avoid the players with bad attitudes.

EDIT: Sorry, someone else made the same point as me earlier. I should have read all the old posts.

If you think BYF is BPA at #2 it’s pretty hard for Ottawa to pass on him. Even Quebec dealt with Lindros. What would PD felt the fans ? We didn’t draft him because he thought he could play in the NHL?

There are a lot of 1-2 OA picks playing as 18 year olds in the NHL. Clearly some “factor(s)” is influencing teams to push these kids a little a head of their development curve. Especially the ones that have Joe Thornton type rookie seasons which is definety possible for Byfield.
 

Sweatred

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Considering there is a good chance they can get Mercer at 21 that deal just doesnt make any sense to me. I actually dont think its out of the question they would take Lundell at 6 if they do get Lafreniere. Id be very dissapointed with the deal personally but its not impossible.

Florida needs d men already and has Hoffman to sign, I like the idea if getting Weegar just dont think its happening for Duclair

Appreciate the hard work you put into the entire post though. I interesting ideas. Fun excersize well done.

Ill do one later today, feel free to critique me as I did with you.

Love the Sokolov pick agree on targeting euros later on in the draft.


I agree 100 percent.


I guess we just shouldnt debate any hypothetical at all then?.... May as well shut down the boards all together. Whats the point of this post other than to take away from other posters discussions? You didnt have to comment.

Ya ... not much else to discuss...
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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If you think BYF is BPA at #2 it’s pretty hard for Ottawa to pass on him. Even Quebec dealt with Lindros. What would PD felt the fans ? We didn’t draft him because he thought he could play in the NHL?

There are a lot of 1-2 OA picks playing as 18 year olds in the NHL. Clearly some “factor(s)” is influencing teams to push these kids a little a head of their development curve. Especially the ones that have Joe Thornton type rookie seasons which is definety possible for Byfield.

Lindros is a very different situation, he was a generational prospect with no challenger to him in the rearview. Quebec chose him knowing that even in a situation where he was demanding out, they could and would get a kings ransom from the highest bidder.

On the flip side, Byfield might not even go 2nd OA, so there is a very real chance a perceived character flaw would be enough to push him down a spot in our BPA calculations.

Don't get me wrong, I think Byfield plays next season for whoever he gets drafted by, but if he clearly isn't benefiting the team or his development after 9 games, there's no doubt in my mind that he gets sent down and that he understands that it's in his best interest as a player.
 
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Sweatred

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Lindros is a very different situation, he was a generational prospect with no challenger to him in the rearview. Quebec chose him knowing that even in a situation where he was demanding out, they could and would get a kings ransom from the highest bidder.

On the flip side, Byfield might not even go 2nd OA, so there is a very real chance a perceived character flaw would be enough to push him down a spot in our BPA calculations.

Don't get me wrong, I think Byfield plays next season for whoever he gets drafted by, but if he clearly isn't benefiting the team or his development after 9 games, there's no doubt in my mind that he gets sent down and that he understands that it's in his best interest as a player.

There are different levels of “understanding”. We’ve seen protests from Spezza, Brown etc. I think he will get sent down and I hope his protests are at least in that range and don’t become an issue.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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There are different levels of “understanding”. We’ve seen protests from Spezza, Brown etc. I think he will get sent down and I hope his protests are at least in that range and don’t become an issue.
I don't recall either Spezza or Brown complaining about getting sent down the season they were drafted. The Spezza one was after spending a full season in the OHL prior to cracking the roster the year after. Brown was sevral years after being drafted. They both felt they had done enough to prove they belong before being upset they were sent down.
 

Sweatred

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I don't recall either Spezza or Brown complaining about getting sent down the season they were drafted. The Spezza one was after spending a full season in the OHL prior to cracking the roster the year after. Brown was sevral years after being drafted. They both felt they had done enough to prove they belong before being upset they were sent down.

Yes... I didn’t suggest they were but perhaps there was cause for confusion. I’m more concerned about having a “disgruntled superstar” . He appeared to take his WJC roll well so hopefully that is a good sign.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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Yes... I didn’t suggest they were but perhaps there was cause for confusion. I’m more concerned about having a “disgruntled superstar” . He appeared to take his WJC roll well so hopefully that is a good sign.

All indications are he has a good head on his shoulders, I really don't think there is any reason to worry about him wrt being upset, insulted or retaliating if a team chooses to send him down. He's also among the younger kids in the draft class, I really don't see an issue with him playing another year in the CHL if he isn't clearly NHL ready in those 9 games before we lose a year of his ELC.
 
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MatchesMalone

Formerly Innocent Bystander
Aug 29, 2010
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Why do you think Dorion doesn't like small players? He was a huge booster for picking Pageau for example, as well as Karlsson.

As for Russians in the top 10, we were supposedly very much targeting Sergachev in 2016, we traded for Zaitsev, and are now rumoured to be signing Zub. We've also apparently increased our scouting in russia from none to some...

Personally I see both Mercer and Amirov as reaches in the top 10, so I'd be shocked in that regard, but I think both are players that we might take if we were around the 15-20 range, heck, maybe even reach a little bit as high as 12th.

Honestly, I'd be thrilled with Amirov, when it looked like the NYI pick might be 15th with them missing the playoffs, he was the guy I was targeting.

Personally, I see this draft as the one we should be going after upside first and foremost. I like a guy like Jarvis with the NYI pick, I like Stranges with one of our 2nds if he's still available. We have the quantity of picks and prospects in the system to strike out and not worry too much.

Well, somebody pointed out recently that since Dorion took over as GM we've only pick something like 2 players under 6'0, and I think they were 5'11. Feel free to double check that.

I just always think back to that comment where in Murray's later years he said to Dorion "not too many small players". Dorion obviously had a great deal of respect and reverence for Murray, and I've always got the impression that Dorion really took that to heart.

I get what you're saying about the Russian scouting presence, but if you hire some Russian scouts, you don't just suddenly jump in to picking a Russian in the top ten at their first draft. You give them some later round picks first, figure out how much credence to give their input.

And I don't disagree about going after upside first, I just disagree about your (and perhaps the consensus) evaluation of certain players. You could target a guy like Jarvis or Gunler, and sure they have a high ceilling, but they also have a lot of risk. In my opinion, with Mercer and Amirov the upside is similar, but the "floor" is much higher.

Maybe go for some high risk players in the second round or later, but there's too many really good, really safe players in available in the top 20-25 or so of this draft. And I really don't see Jarvis' upside as any higher than Mercer's, just a lot more risk.
 

Sweatred

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All indications are he has a good head on his shoulders, I really don't think there is any reason to worry about him wrt being upset, insulted or retaliating if a team chooses to send him down. He's also among the younger kids in the draft class, I really don't see an issue with him playing another year in the CHL if he isn't clearly NHL ready in those 9 games before we lose a year of his ELC.

I think you are probably right. He will get his 9 games over a 10-20 game period. If the outcome of those games is obvious it is an easy decision either way.

I could see an issue if he gets 2-3G in 9 games but the team think he is struggling with some part of his game or they have contract/waiver issues with other players and want to send him back.

It could be a $10 million dollar decision to Byfield and a year of UFA eligibility gained by the Sens and lost by the player.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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I think you are probably right. He will get his 9 games over a 10-20 game period. If the outcome of those games is obvious it is an easy decision either way.

I could see an issue if he gets 2-3G in 9 games but the team think he is struggling with some part of his game or they have contract/waiver issues with other players and want to send him back.

It could be a $10 million dollar decision to Byfield and a year of UFA eligibility gained by the Sens and lost by the player.

The 9 game mark is just about the entry level slide, it's the 40 game mark (on the active roster, not in the lineup) that's relevant with UFA status. He needs 7 seasons with 40 games on the active roster to become a UFA (not sure if they will prorate should the next season be a shortened one). We could burn a year of his ELC without him becoming a year closer to UFA status, so if it's questionable whether or not he's ready after 9 games we probably will keep him around longer. I also don't see much value in him being a healthy scratch unless we know full well he isn't being kept up and just want him to get a little more exposure to the pro life before sending him back down.

With most players of his status signing huge contracts right out of their ELC, the UFA eligibility is probably not really important. Losing a year of your ELC can sometimes be a mixed blessing; if his 4th year is his breakout year, he'd be better off having had his ELC slide one year rather than burn off the year and break out during his second contract instead of his ELC. Particularly with slower development curve players, we actually will be better off burning a year of ELC right away. Byfield is a bit unique because he is really young, but also really high end prospect, so it's hard to say whether or not we or whatever team drafts him would be better off burning the 1st year of his ELC or not.
 

Micklebot

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Well, somebody pointed out recently that since Dorion took over as GM we've only pick something like 2 players under 6'0, and I think they were 5'11. Feel free to double check that.

I just always think back to that comment where in Murray's later years he said to Dorion "not too many small players". Dorion obviously had a great deal of respect and reverence for Murray, and I've always got the impression that Dorion really took that to heart.

I get what you're saying about the Russian scouting presence, but if you hire some Russian scouts, you don't just suddenly jump in to picking a Russian in the top ten at their first draft. You give them some later round picks first, figure out how much credence to give their input.

And I don't disagree about going after upside first, I just disagree about your (and perhaps the consensus) evaluation of certain players. You could target a guy like Jarvis or Gunler, and sure they have a high ceilling, but they also have a lot of risk. In my opinion, with Mercer and Amirov the upside is similar, but the "floor" is much higher.

Maybe go for some high risk players in the second round or later, but there's too many really good, really safe players in available in the top 20-25 or so of this draft. And I really don't see Jarvis' upside as any higher than Mercer's, just a lot more risk.


Fair enough. I really like Amirov, so totally agree with you on him, but I'm not as big a fan of Mercer (not that I don't like him, just that I don't take him in the top 15 myself). Both are ahead of Jarvis, he's more of a guy I consider with our NYI pick where it is if they are both gone.
 

Sweatred

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The 9 game mark is just about the entry level slide, it's the 40 game mark (on the active roster, not in the lineup) that's relevant with UFA status. He needs 7 seasons with 40 games on the active roster to become a UFA (not sure if they will prorate should the next season be a shortened one). We could burn a year of his ELC without him becoming a year closer to UFA status, so if it's questionable whether or not he's ready after 9 games we probably will keep him around longer. I also don't see much value in him being a healthy scratch unless we know full well he isn't being kept up and just want him to get a little more exposure to the pro life before sending him back down.

With most players of his status signing huge contracts right out of their ELC, the UFA eligibility is probably not really important. Losing a year of your ELC can sometimes be a mixed blessing; if his 4th year is his breakout year, he'd be better off having had his ELC slide one year rather than burn off the year and break out during his second contract instead of his ELC. Particularly with slower development curve players, we actually will be better off burning a year of ELC right away. Byfield is a bit unique because he is really young, but also really high end prospect, so it's hard to say whether or not we or whatever team drafts him would be better off burning the 1st year of his ELC or not.

I wonder how the Sens will consider vs a typical OHL season.

He could play 39-40? games in the NHL, practice every day, play 10? At the WJC and probably play for Canada at WC’s if they run. It’s more games than a NCAA season.
 

dumbdick

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May 31, 2008
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I just don't want Byfield.

In my very amateur opinion, the guy's a little bit weaker than the other top picks on dynamic skating and pure skill. Those attributes tend not to develop. His junior dominance seems to be based a lot on his physical attributes and him being more mature as a player than the other guys. His highlight reel looks like what I would expect Zack Smith's would look like if you dropped him, fully developed, into a junior league. Taking advantage of far too many zone entry opportunities that he won't see at the higher levels. Basically, I think Byfield is a lot closer to his final ceiling, but it's a lower ceiling.

That said, I would have said the same thing about Brady. And I know the pro scouts know what they're doing. Still, there will be no tears shed from my side if we pass on him.
 

Micklebot

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I just don't want Byfield.

In my very amateur opinion, the guy's a little bit weaker than the other top picks on dynamic skating and pure skill. Those attributes tend not to develop. His junior dominance seems to be based a lot on his physical attributes and him being more mature as a player than the other guys. His highlight reel looks like what I would expect Zack Smith's would look like if you dropped him, fully developed, into a junior league. Taking advantage of far too many zone entry opportunities that he won't see at the higher levels. Basically, I think Byfield is a lot closer to his final ceiling, but it's a lower ceiling.

That said, I would have said the same thing about Brady. And I know the pro scouts know what they're doing. Still, there will be no tears shed from my side if we pass on him.

I look at him and see a better prospect than Rick Nash or Eric Staal when they were drafted. I also think his skating is a big plus, sure he's not a water bug like some of the smaller guys are, but I like his ability to change gears, and I like his edge work.
 

Frank8

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Sep 19, 2013
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The one guy I always wished Ottawa had drafted was Kopitar. Imagine what this team would look like from the cup final in 2007 to today with that monster dragging guys around the ice on his back. We've had some decent Cs over the years, but no one with that kind of dominance. Byfield is going to have the same kind of impact on whatever team takes him.
 

aragorn

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I want Byfield.

While he may not make the team in his first yr & be returned to junior, that's alright, Ottawa isn't going to be a powerhouse anyway next season. Maybe he could refine his game & dominate even further & improve his all around play. However, if they want to make a splash with season ticket holders I assume they might just rush him as they did with Lazar to make some gate money. He's big enough & good enough to handle the NHL game now & could be brought along slowly starting on the 4th line as a checker to learn the defensive game. And moved up as his overall game improves & the coaches learn to trust him in all situations.

Having two big centres down the middle in Byfield & L. Brown creates two lines with dynamics. It should be fairly easy to fit guys onto the wings of those two centres that can produce & compliment their game. Byfield is being compared to Malkin & how many scoring titles, awards & championships has he won & been a part of including when Crosby was out with injury long term he carried the team a few times.

Tkachuk with Byfield brings an element of grit that Byfield needs to improve on, Batherson on the other side brings an element of scoring to compliment Byfield's playmaking & scoring ability. What if they place Byfield in the middle between Formenton & Pinto what kind of line could that be, or Duclair & C. Brown? Ottawa has lot's of potential scoring wingers that they can add to lines to improve a line not to mention some other forwards they pick up in the next few drafts.

How about Paul - Byfield - Kastelic on the 4th line to start the yr? :laugh::thumbu:
 
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DuncanMacpherson

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Apr 6, 2010
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Pretty hard to make a line up pre draft and free agency but il give it a shot. I’m just gonna put one of the 1st round picks On there because I don’t think they will both be on the team.

Tkachuk-Tierny-Brown
Stutzle-Norris-Duclair
Batherson-Brown-Ryan
Balcers-White-Paul

Chabot-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-ZUB
Wolanin-Boroweicki
 

alfstheman

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Jul 2, 2009
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Pretty hard to make a line up pre draft and free agency but il give it a shot. I’m just gonna put one of the 1st round picks On there because I don’t think they will both be on the team.

Tkachuk-Tierny-Brown
Stutzle-Norris-Duclair
Batherson-Brown-Ryan
Balcers-White-Paul

Chabot-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-ZUB
Wolanin-Boroweicki

I actually really like that lineup. ...Well once byfields name is there instead of Tierny that is.

EDIT: also formenton should be in there instead of... someone lol
 
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aragorn

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Aug 8, 2004
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To start the yr, but not end the yr., I expect a few more changes especially at the deadline. I expect that PD could move Tierny, Anisimov, Hawryluk, Reilly & maybe Nilsson by the deadline.

Tkachuk - White - Duclair
Paul - L. Brown - Batherson
Balcers - Tierny - C. Brown
Hawryluk - Anisimov - Ryan/Chlapik/Byfield

Chabot - Zaitsev
Wolanin - Reilly
Boroweicki - Zub/Englund

Nilsson - Hogberg
 
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ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
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If we get Lafreniere, I cant help but think that we would package a center for him right away, even if its a stop gap. But someone Laf can actually learn a few things from on what it means to be a good vet.

Someone like RNH or go for one of the biggest UFA names.

I have hard time thinking Ottawa would put their 1st overall potential franchise altering prospect on Tiereny's wing, White's or risk it with L.Brown.
 
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Tkachuk27

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Nov 30, 2011
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If we get Lafreniere, I cant help but think that we would package a center for him right away, even if its a stop gap. But someone Laf can actually learn a few things from on what it means to be a good vet.

Someone like RNH or go for one of the biggest UFA names.

I have hard time thinking Ottawa would put their 1st overall potential franchise altering prospect on Tiereny's wing, White's or risk it with L.Brown.

I agree RNH would be a perferct fit if Lafrenière becomes a Senator. Hopefully Detroit takes Byfield or Drysdale at 2 leaving Stutzle for us at 3.

Lafrenière RNH Batherson
Tkachuk Norris Stutzle
Duclair Tierney Ryan
Balcers White C.Brown
 

Sweatred

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Pretty hard to make a line up pre draft and free agency but il give it a shot. I’m just gonna put one of the 1st round picks On there because I don’t think they will both be on the team.

Tkachuk-Tierny-Brown
Stutzle-Norris-Duclair
Batherson-Brown-Ryan
Balcers-White-Paul

Chabot-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-ZUB
Wolanin-Boroweicki

I like this lineup. The only thing I see is that it probably makes the Tierney line the checking line or at least the line to play against the other team top line. I’m not sure DJ will want Brady in that roll.

As things stand now out best centers are Tierney and Arti. Arti won’t get a matchup roll so I could see LAF/BY/Stutz getting paired with him unless Norris or Brown21 show some early effectiveness.

Very few coaches are going to play two rookies on a line. DJ doesn’t strike me as the type but I think he will gain confidence quickly with Norris.
 
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DrSense

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When thinking of lines, the Sens are more likely to spread their elite youth across the top 3 lines, all three of which get equal ice time at ES, and then consolidate skill together on two PP lines. So the likes of the two new draftees, Batherson, Norris and L Brown, will definitely be spread out as much as possible. When the Sens had Alfie, Hossa and Havlat, it's what made us so dangerous a team to have one of those three on the ice over 80% of the time.

Also, it's much harder to insulate a center, so gives us some extra challenges in balancing things given Tierney and Anisimov are really our only vets at center, so I suspect White and Paul will both be used alongside a young center given they can take draws and jump as centers in the D zone potentially, to alleviate some of the work required.
 
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Sweatred

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When thinking of lines, the Sens are more likely to spread their elite youth across the top 3 lines, all three of which get equal ice time at ES, and then consolidate skill together on two PP lines. So the likes of the two new draftees, Batherson, Norris and L Brown, will definitely be spread out as much as possible. When the Sens had Alfie, Hossa and Havlat, it's what made us so dangerous a team to have one of those three on the ice over 80% of the time.

Also, it's much harder to insulate a center, so gives us some extra challenges in balancing things given Tierney and Anisimov are really our only vets at center, so I suspect White and Paul will both be used alongside a young center given they can take draws and jump as centers in the D zone potentially, to alleviate some of the work required.

I totally agree. We’ve already heard Mann publicly comment that Brown isn’t ready and needs more AHL time. I think that message was placed for a purpose. Although I don’t necessarily agree I think we are going to see White, Norris, Tierney and Arti (1-4) at center to start the season with Chaplik as the 5C in Ott/Bell. If White or Norris fail Brown will get his shot. If they don’t fail he’ll get his shot with injury or moving CT and/or sitting Arti.
 
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bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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I just don't want Byfield.

In my very amateur opinion, the guy's a little bit weaker than the other top picks on dynamic skating and pure skill. Those attributes tend not to develop. His junior dominance seems to be based a lot on his physical attributes and him being more mature as a player than the other guys. His highlight reel looks like what I would expect Zack Smith's would look like if you dropped him, fully developed, into a junior league. Taking advantage of far too many zone entry opportunities that he won't see at the higher levels. Basically, I think Byfield is a lot closer to his final ceiling, but it's a lower ceiling.

That said, I would have said the same thing about Brady. And I know the pro scouts know what they're doing. Still, there will be no tears shed from my side if we pass on him.
This is just not accurate, big players skating always takes longer to develop look at Spezza. Byfield has terrific pure skill too, I think you may need to watch a few more games.

I dont know how Byfield is closer to his final ceiling when he is a big player and a late birthday there is absolutely no logic behind saying he is. He is by definition the furthest away from his final product of almost any player in the draft.

I look at him and see a better prospect than Rick Nash or Eric Staal when they were drafted. I also think his skating is a big plus, sure he's not a water bug like some of the smaller guys are, but I like his ability to change gears, and I like his edge work.
Yeah his skating for his size is what makes him so special......
 
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