Speculation: 2020-2021 General Lightning Discussion - Defending Champions Edition: Part 2

DMB06

Registered User
Jun 3, 2015
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That's the problem. That's why I assumed this guidance never came out - with the prolific spread of both a) anti-maskers and b) anti-vaxxers, sending along this guidance basically just allows them to ignore even a token acknowledgement of their responsibility.

It's one of those things that to anyone with a brain was self-evident, but also it was self-evident why you wouldn't publicize that.

Masks haven't been shown to do a thing. I know that's not what your TV is telling you, which is exactly why you should turn it off. States with strict mask mandates vs states without have no noticeable improvements.

There's a reason virologists wear full body hazmat suits and not a dinky cloth mask. We know those who back the use of masks don't really buy in to their effectiveness given the militant way you attempt to order others into wearing them. If your mask did what you claim it does you wouldn't concern yourself with what others are doing.

None of this is complicated, but is the inevitable result of people letting the media dictate their entire reality.
 

DMB06

Registered User
Jun 3, 2015
1,567
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I'm guessing the aim here was to let anti-vaxxers know that they can do whatever they please if they just get vaccinated.

What they failed to take into account is that anti-masking anti-vaxxers already do whatever they want, so there's no incentive in their minds to bother getting vaccinated anyways. Now they'll just blend in better.

And by the use of "anti" in your post, you generally refer to people, however few that may be these days, who still think for themselves.

Closing down schools should have been the light bulb moment for those with an IQ above 3 that this was never about public safety.
 
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VinikToWinIt

Number 1 Bull****
Jun 15, 2014
6,901
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South Florida
And by the use of "anti" in your post, you generally refer to people, however few that may be these days, who still think for themselves.

Closing down schools should have been the light bulb moment for those with an IQ above 3 that this was never about public safety.
Anti in my post means against. I’m not going to bother getting into good and bad. Just saying that they already do what they want, so the guidance was... misguided, if they did it to encourage vaccinations.
 
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LTIR Trickery

Plz stop pucks
Jun 27, 2007
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And by the use of "anti" in your post, you generally refer to people, however few that may be these days, who still think for themselves.

Closing down schools should have been the light bulb moment for those with an IQ above 3 that this was never about public safety.
You've figured out the plandemic man!
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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What is this cat going on about?

The effectiveness of masking is more than open for debate. But when you have absolutely no choice but to be stacked on top of people, it's more effective than saying "YoLO!! lMAo!" and not doing anything about it. It is physical social distancing that prevents the spread of an airborne disease. The virus isn't gonna travel any further than 6 feet to the nearest person. In the off chance that covering your mouth might help even 1%, you do it.

Meanwhile no mask/no social distancing FL with all the people who think guns keep you safe during a pandemic instead of mask and social distancing continues to lap the rest of the USA (including the much larger states of TX and CA) in cases per day by almost double.


lol media has sure dictated alright. The information age has allowed the spread of ignorance to the point of it goddamning us back into the dark ages where we'd rather risk ourselves and others getting sick because we invent our own boogeyman.
 
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Felonious Python

Minor League Degenerate
Aug 20, 2004
30,395
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What is this cat going on about?

The effectiveness of masking is more than open for debate. But when you have absolutely no choice but to be stacked on top of people, it's more effective than saying "YoLO!! lMAo!" and not doing anything about it. It is physical social distancing that prevents the spread of an airborne disease. The virus isn't gonna travel any further than 6 feet to the nearest person. In the off chance that covering your mouth might help even 1%, you do it.

Meanwhile no mask/no social distancing FL with all the people who think guns keep you safe during a pandemic instead of mask and social distancing continues to lap the rest of the USA (including the much larger states of TX and CA) in cases per day by almost double.


lol media has sure dictated alright. The information age has allowed the spread of ignorance to the point of it goddamning us back into the dark ages.
I think we're getting off-topic, and this could be moved to the 19/3, but I always saw the measures put in place as like a Swiss cheese approach.

No, a mask alone probably won't work. No, frequent handwashing alone probably won't work. No, six feet alone probably won't work. But put them together? Better than nothing.

Masks are more about spreading the virus than catching it anyway.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,119
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Tampa Bay
Fair enough Python. You'll have to forgive me but it really takes a toll on you when you were an RN for 3 years and see your own state doubling COVID cases. And then follows it up with creating its own fuel shortage when we aren't even supplied by the pipeline that closed down. People see a headline and say "oh shit better get gas!"

It's really taxing man
 
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YayHockeysBack

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Jan 12, 2019
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Masks haven't been shown to do a thing. I know that's not what your TV is telling you, which is exactly why you should turn it off. States with strict mask mandates vs states without have no noticeable improvements.

There's a reason virologists wear full body hazmat suits and not a dinky cloth mask. We know those who back the use of masks don't really buy in to their effectiveness given the militant way you attempt to order others into wearing them. If your mask did what you claim it does you wouldn't concern yourself with what others are doing.

None of this is complicated, but is the inevitable result of people letting the media dictate their entire reality.

And there's a reason surgeons and dentists wear masks, and it's not to keep you from infecting them. It's to keep them from infecting you, the same reason masks should have been worn when people were running around not knowing if they were infected or not. If you're vaccinated (hopefully you are) you have little fear of infecting others, so you can now go without a mask.
 
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DMB06

Registered User
Jun 3, 2015
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And there's a reason surgeons and dentists wear masks, and it's not to keep you from infecting them. It's to keep them from infecting you, the same reason masks should have been worn when people were running around not knowing if they were infected or not. If you're vaccinated (hopefully you are) you have little fear of infecting others, so you can now go without a mask.

I'm not vaccinated and never will be. I have no interest in being a lab rat, especially when the virus the vaccine is designed for has a virtually non-existant death rate for those that are healthy and under 70.

Again, masks haven't been proven to do anything. This isn't "anti-mask" conspiracy, it's proven fact. Not a single state or country in the world saw noticeable improvements because of stricter mask mandates. Not one.

If you'd like to inject a substance into your body without having a clue of the long term implications, it's your body do as you wish. If you want to wear a mask when it's proven to do nothing, have at it. I won't do either of those things.
 
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JTBF81

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Dec 6, 2018
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Tampa, FL.
How this should relate to the Lightning and any close proximity indoor or outdoor gathering is simple, those who have had the vaccine and can show proof should be allowed in without a mask. Those who refuse to take the vaccine will continue to wear a mask if they wish to enter. Owners and those in charge of venues/events/businesses etc. need to protect their customers, and having an "honor system" is a joke. Hopefully, most sports teams will adapt this type of policy moving forward in order to keep 20-100k fans as safe as possible.

Thankfully many states and teams will likely implement this type of policy, and with any luck, it will be allowed in Florida as well after legal action. It is one's right to not take the vaccine, but it is not their right to violate safety measures and the rules of private entities and still think they should be allowed entry.
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
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How this should relate to the Lightning and any close proximity indoor or outdoor gathering is simple, those who have had the vaccine and can show proof should be allowed in without a mask. Those who refuse to take the vaccine will continue to wear a mask if they wish to enter. Owners and those in charge of venues/events/businesses etc. need to protect their customers, and having an "honor system" is a joke. Hopefully, most sports teams will adapt this type of policy moving forward in order to keep 20-100k fans as safe as possible.

Thankfully many states and teams will likely implement this type of policy, and with any luck, it will be allowed in Florida as well after legal action. It is one's right to not take the vaccine, but it is not their right to violate safety measures and the rules of private entities and still think they should be allowed entry.

The state of Florida doesn't require you to wear a mask or provide proof of vaccination. Being vaccinated doesn't guarantee you from not getting Covid or spreading Covid. There's no proof showing states with strict Covid restrictions vs those with without have less rate of spread or deaths. So not sure why everyone keeps talking about keeping the fans safe with these vaccination rules. When the Lightning and even Bucs had their boat parades there was thousands of people in close proximity without vaccinations and it turned out fine. But the Lightning are a private business and own the building so they can do what they want, just feel like they're alienating a lot of fans who don't want to get a not properly regulated and tested vaccine.
 

Hoek

Legendary Poster A
May 12, 2003
11,382
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Tampa, FL
The boat parades were outdoors which was always safe despite all the handwringing by people that just want to bash Florida for literally any reason. Hockey games are indoors and cold like a meat packing facility and those have had high profile breakouts which makes them a different equation, imo. That said I doubt Vinik wants to play vaccine police. He will just slowly add capacity if the team progresses and cases drop.

Also a technicality the Lightning lease the building, they don't own it.
 

Felonious Python

Minor League Degenerate
Aug 20, 2004
30,395
8,668
How this should relate to the Lightning and any close proximity indoor or outdoor gathering is simple, those who have had the vaccine and can show proof should be allowed in without a mask. Those who refuse to take the vaccine will continue to wear a mask if they wish to enter. Owners and those in charge of venues/events/businesses etc. need to protect their customers, and having an "honor system" is a joke. Hopefully, most sports teams will adapt this type of policy moving forward in order to keep 20-100k fans as safe as possible.

Thankfully many states and teams will likely implement this type of policy, and with any luck, it will be allowed in Florida as well after legal action. It is one's right to not take the vaccine, but it is not their right to violate safety measures and the rules of private entities and still think they should be allowed entry.

The state of Florida doesn't require you to wear a mask or provide proof of vaccination. Being vaccinated doesn't guarantee you from not getting Covid or spreading Covid. There's no proof showing states with strict Covid restrictions vs those with without have less rate of spread or deaths. So not sure why everyone keeps talking about keeping the fans safe with these vaccination rules. When the Lightning and even Bucs had their boat parades there was thousands of people in close proximity without vaccinations and it turned out fine. But the Lightning are a private business and own the building so they can do what they want, just feel like they're alienating a lot of fans who don't want to get a not properly regulated and tested vaccine.

Florida specifically prohibits businesses from requiring vaccine documentation.

Gov. DeSantis Issues Executive Order Banning ‘Vaccine Passports'

I think we'll see some places keep the mask requirement. Amway Center in Orlando hasn't changed any of their rules yet.

The fact that I haven't seen any of the major league venues have budged yet tells me that they're waiting on guidance. If you could go maskless at an NBA game or whatever, you'd hear about it.
 
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JTBF81

Registered User
Dec 6, 2018
3,708
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Tampa, FL.
Florida specifically prohibits businesses from requiring vaccine documentation.

Gov. DeSantis Issues Executive Order Banning ‘Vaccine Passports'

I think we'll see some places keep the mask requirement. Amway Center in Orlando hasn't changed any of their rules yet.

The fact that I haven't seen any of the major league venues have budged yet tells me that they're waiting on guidance. If you could go maskless at an NBA game or whatever, you'd hear about it.
Yes, for now businesses and private entities can't ask for the vaccinecard, but as I said, legal actions can eliminate poor executive orders. I'm fine if the Lightning, Bucs, Rays etc continue to require everyone to wear a mask, as without the ability to verify if entrants have had the vaccine, it is the safest course moving forward.
 

JTBF81

Registered User
Dec 6, 2018
3,708
1,964
Tampa, FL.
The state of Florida doesn't require you to wear a mask or provide proof of vaccination. Being vaccinated doesn't guarantee you from not getting Covid or spreading Covid. There's no proof showing states with strict Covid restrictions vs those with without have less rate of spread or deaths. So not sure why everyone keeps talking about keeping the fans safe with these vaccination rules. When the Lightning and even Bucs had their boat parades there was thousands of people in close proximity without vaccinations and it turned out fine. But the Lightning are a private business and own the building so they can do what they want, just feel like they're alienating a lot of fans who don't want to get a not properly regulated and tested vaccine.
Again, if people don't want a vaccine and be reckless by not wearing a mask either, that's on them. It is their right to do so. However, their rights do not give them the ability to willingly endanger others in private locations that have existing rules and policies in place. For most of the sports teams in Florida, I would expect everyone will need to wear a mask for some time until hopefully the order disallowing proof of vaccine is thrown out, or we have reached herd immunity numbers. The Lightning can certainly let unvaccinated in, but they will need to wear a mask. If ppl don't want to get the vaccine and don't want to wear a mask, then they can enjoy the game on TV.
 

Felonious Python

Minor League Degenerate
Aug 20, 2004
30,395
8,668
Yes, for now businesses and private entities can't ask for the vaccinecard, but as I said, legal actions can eliminate poor executive orders. I'm fine if the Lightning, Bucs, Rays etc continue to require everyone to wear a mask, as without the ability to verify if entrants have had the vaccine, it is the safest course moving forward.
It's actually signed into law now. SB 2006

Florida lawmakers pass bill making it illegal to require proof of COVID-19 vaccination
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
17,452
3,681
Again, if people don't want a vaccine and be reckless by not wearing a mask either, that's on them. It is their right to do so. However, their rights do not give them the ability to willingly endanger others in private locations that have existing rules and policies in place. For most of the sports teams in Florida, I would expect everyone will need to wear a mask for some time until hopefully the order disallowing proof of vaccine is thrown out, or we have reached herd immunity numbers. The Lightning can certainly let unvaccinated in, but they will need to wear a mask. If ppl don't want to get the vaccine and don't want to wear a mask, then they can enjoy the game on TV.

Can you prove that the person not wearing a mask has Covid and will spread it? Can you prove that the person vaccinated doesn't have Covid and won't spread it? You can't say yes to either of those statements. So not sure how you can say one is endangering others and the other is not? A proof of vaccination is just as much a waste of paper as showing a negative Covid test. Neither one is 100% proof that you don't have Covid. Many people with a negative Covid test actually had Covid and people with the vaccine still got Covid. If you want to go to a game you should assume the risk of potential coming into contact with Covid and catch it. Just like you assume the risk you won't get hit with a puck, it can happen but unlikely.
 

Felonious Python

Minor League Degenerate
Aug 20, 2004
30,395
8,668
Unfortunate, as it makes it more difficult to remove; however, it is not impossible.
It's probably not worth the effort. The FL supreme court will more than likely not overturn it, the US supreme court won't see it (at least I'm not aware of a constitutional argument against it), and hopefully we won't even be needing masks at all a year from now.

I think it's a loser of a pursuit politically for D's too. It's too easy for R's to dice up.

What is not covered by SB 2006 are things that are not vaccine proof requirements. Companies can, and still do, require wearing masks. Amway Center hasn't changed policies. You wear a mask essentially all the time, unless you're eating/drinking at your seat, or a socially distanced eating space. Or you're under three years old.
 
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