B-Sens 2020-2021 Belleville Senators

[Emrasie]

If it's 2019-20, it was in the NHL because Goloubef didn't play for the B-Sens last year, 24 GP in Ottawa

Yes my error, he was in Belleville for 30 games on 2018/2019 season (12 points + 15), pairing with EB. I skipped the 2020 season..

 

[Ouroboros]

Please ignore the washed vets we're spending money on! Its totally acceptable to sacrifice the future so we can have Derek Stepan on the top PP, PK and play with our prized prospects.

Derek Stepan isn't keeping anybody out of the NHL, and the future isn't being sacrificed.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Yes. The AHL season is a joke this year. When is Belleville’s next game ? Also why hasn’t Jaros played yet this year ?

Nice pivot. Why are you posting here then if you believe this? If none of the AHL games matter to you why come here and argue with people? Seems like you're just trying to derail valid criticism of the club.

 

[mianjo]

Cody Goulobouf's last 3 seasons

2018-19	Providence Bruins	AHL	16	3	9	12	27	-1	|
	Ottawa Senators	NHL	5	0	0	0	2	0	|
	Belleville Senators	AHL	30	3	9	12	46	15	|
2019-20	Ottawa Senators	NHL	24	1	1	2	8	-2	|
	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	2	0	0	0	0	-1	|
2020-21	Belleville Senators “A”	AHL	4	1	0	1	2	-5	|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Derek Stepan isn't keeping anybody out of the NHL, and the future isn't being sacrificed.

None of this is true.

Amazing that people would rather pay these veteran slugs millions and have a ECHL defense on our farm team than actually set up a proper environment for guys like Formenton, Gustavsson and Thomson to play. Absolute insanity.

 

[GCK]

Nice pivot. Why are you posting here then if you believe this? If none of the AHL games matter to you why come here and argue with people? Seems like you're just trying to derail valid criticism of the club.

Just because the season is a joke and team success is irrelevant there are still a few prospects to follow.

 

[Ouroboros]

None of this is true.

Amazing that people would rather pay these veteran slugs millions and have a ECHL defense on our farm team than actually set up a proper environment for guys like Formenton, Gustavsson and Thomson to play. Absolute insanity.

There are very few players in Belleville this season that have an NHL future. Alex Formenton is about the only one that can be guaranteed.

Beyond that it's just a bunch of long-term projects and mid-round lottery tickets. Abramov, Kastelic, Sokolov, Kelly, Thomson, Reinhardt, Aspirot, Gustavsson and Daccord - toss all those guys into the crucible and hope that one or two NHL'ers come out the other side a few years down the road. That's not the future, it's one or two auxiliary pieces if we're lucky.

There was just no way that Belleville could be good this season - the proper pieces are not available to them. It is what it is.

 

[BatherSeason]

Just because the season is a joke and team success is irrelevant there are still a few prospects to follow.

Not sure it's a joke for the players.

 

[foggyvisor]

There are very few players in Belleville this season that have an NHL future.

Oh boy. You're gonna get it now.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

There are very few players in Belleville this season that have an NHL future. Alex Formenton is about the only one that can be guaranteed.

Beyond that it's just a bunch of long-term projects and mid-round lottery tickets. Abramov, Kastelic, Sokolov, Kelly, Thomson, Reinhardt, Aspirot, Gustavsson and Daccord - toss all those guys into the crucible and hope that one or two NHL'ers come out the other side a few years down the road. That's not the future, it's one or two auxiliary pieces if we're lucky.

There was just no way that Belleville could be good this season - the proper pieces are not available to them. It is what it is.

That's horseshit. We dont need the BSens to be world beaters, we need them to be a competitive environment for guys to develop. It would have taken an absolute bare minimum effort to accomplish that.

That list of guys you put there sure does represent a hell of a lot of draft and trade capital. We're pretty f***ed as a financially crippled team if only 1 or 2 NHLers emerge from there. Saved 250k though so that makes it all okay. High fives for Dorion

 

[BondraTime]

Oh boy. You're gonna get it now.

It’s not wrong, our best prospects are in the NHL or NCAA.

Formenton, Grieg, and possibly Brown are the only guys on the team who would be in my top 10. Everyone else is in the NHL (Norris, Stutzle, Batherson, Brannstrom) or in the NCAA (Sanderson, Pinto, JBD, Kleven).

We had an influx of secondary guys, who we hope can become bottom pairing guys or bottom 6 guys, we never added any real prospects to the roster, and never kept any real prospects on the team other than Formenton.

It’s no surprise the team is going to be bad. Moving Jaros and Lajoie is pretty questionable for sure when looking at the D core.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

It’s not wrong, our best prospects are in the NHL or NCAA.

Formenton, Grieg, and possibly Brown are the only guys on the team who would be in my top 10. Everyone else is in the NHL (Norris, Stutzle, Batherson, Brannstrom) or in the NCAA (Sanderson, Pinto, JBD, Kleven).

We had an influx of secondary guys, who we hope can become bottom pairing guys or bottom 6 guys, we never added any real prospects to the roster, and never kept any real prospects on the team other than Formenton.

It’s no surprise the team is going to be bad. Moving Jaros and Lajoie is pretty questionable for sure when looking at the D core.

This isn't a valid excuse to get curb stomped by Laval though. Its not like Romonov and Caulfield are out there lighting us up. Are Harvey-Pinard, Poehling, Primeau, Brook and Ylonen really that much better than our guys. I don't think so. The difference is they have vets like Dauphin, Ouellett, Oloffsson, Blandisi and Weal.

 

[Xspyrit]

There are very few players in Belleville this season that have an NHL future. Alex Formenton is about the only one that can be guaranteed.

Beyond that it's just a bunch of long-term projects and mid-round lottery tickets. Abramov, Kastelic, Sokolov, Kelly, Thomson, Reinhardt, Aspirot, Gustavsson and Daccord - toss all those guys into the crucible and hope that one or two NHL'ers come out the other side a few years down the road. That's not the future, it's one or two auxiliary pieces if we're lucky.

There was just no way that Belleville could be good this season - the proper pieces are not available to them. It is what it is.

If you're right and our amateur scouting also sucks, then there is absolutely no hope for this organization

In no order :

1) Lassi Thompson (19th OA in 2019, MAIN piece in return for Duchene, which we paid a King's ransom to get in the first place)
2) Vitali Abramov (2nd piece in return for Duchene)
3) Jonathan Davidsson (3rd piece in return for Duchene, seems to have fallen off the map since his concussion issues)
4) Logan Brown (11th OA in 2016, used a 3rd round pick to move up)
5) Filip Chlapik (48th OA in 2015)
6) Alex Formenton (47th OA in 2017)
7) Ridly Greig (28th OA in 2020)
8) Egor Sokolov (61st OA in 2020)
9) Filip Gustavsson (2nd piece in return for Brassard, which we paid a King's ransom to get in the first place)
10) Joey Daccord (7th round pick in 2015)
11) Kevin Mandolese (6th round pick in 2018)
12) Mark Kastelic (5th round pick in 2019)
13) Cole Reinhardt (6th round pick in 2020)

Also : Clark Bishop (return for Max Lajoie, former 5th round pick), Jack Kopacka (return for Christian Jaros, former 5th round pick), Jean-Christophe Beaudin (return for Max McCormick, former 6th round pick), Parker Kelly, Jonathan Aspirot and Olle Alsing (as "young" Free Agents)

If there's only 1 NHL player in there, that would be a LOT OF MISS from Dorion in terms of draft and trade capital

This isn't a valid excuse to get curb stomped by Laval though. Its not like Romonov and Caulfield are out there lighting us up. Are Harvey-Pinard, Poehling, Primeau, Brook and Ylonen really that much better than our guys. I don't think so. The difference is they have vets like Dauphin, Ouellett, Oloffsson, Blandisi and Weal.

Even 850 NHL GP Frolik was there.

And they have signed a lot of euros over the years in an attempt to find good ones.

 

[BondraTime]

This isn't a valid excuse to get curb stomped by Laval though. Its not like Romonov and Caulfield are out there lighting us up. Are Harvey-Pinard, Poehling, Primeau, Brook and Ylonen really that much better than our guys. I don't think so. The difference is they have vets like Dauphin, Ouellett, Oloffsson, Blandisi and Weal.

Yes, they have a better team and had much, much less turnover. Trading Jaros and Lajoie is strange, at best. The rest is just the usual AHL shuffling of talent.

 

[aragorn]

I think there may be a few potential NHL players in Belleville & elsewhere in this org, whether they make it or ever play in Ottawa full time is another question.

Potential NHL Players in the AHL:
L. Brown, Formenton, Greig, Thomson, Brannstrom, Kastelic, Sokolov & Daccord.

Potential NHL Players Elsewhere:
Sanderson, Pinto, JBD, Kleven, Jarventie, Guennette & Merilainen.

 

[The Expert]

That's horseshit. We dont need the BSens to be world beaters, we need them to be a competitive environment for guys to develop. It would have taken an absolute bare minimum effort to accomplish that.

It's not horseshit it's the truth.

Belleville had a great team last year and their two best forwards graduated to the big club, three actually if you include Balcers. If you didn't see a pretty big regression coming, that's on you.

If you're right and our amateur scouting also sucks, then there is absolutely no hope for this organization

In no order :

1) Lassi Thompson (19th OA in 2019, MAIN piece in return for Duchene, which we paid a King's ransom to get in the first place)
2) Vitali Abramov (2nd piece in return for Duchene)
3) Jonathan Davidsson (3rd piece in return for Duchene, seems to have fallen off the map since his concussion issues)
4) Logan Brown (11th OA in 2016, used a 3rd round pick to move up)
5) Filip Chlapik (48th OA in 2015)
6) Alex Formenton (47th OA in 2017)
7) Ridly Greig (28th OA in 2020)
8) Egor Sokolov (61st OA in 2020)
9) Filip Gustavsson (2nd piece in return for Brassard, which we paid a King's ransom to get in the first place)
10) Joey Daccord (7th round pick in 2015)
11) Kevin Mandolese (6th round pick in 2018)
12) Mark Kastelic (5th round pick in 2019)
13) Cole Reinhardt (6th round pick in 2020)

Also : Clark Bishop (return for Max Lajoie, former 5th round pick), Jack Kopacka (return for Christian Jaros, former 5th round pick), Jean-Christophe Beaudin (return for Max McCormick, former 6th round pick), Parker Kelly, Jonathan Aspirot and Olle Alsing (as "young" Free Agents)

If there's only 1 NHL player in there, that would be a LOT OF MISS from Dorion in terms of draft and trade capital .

Literally says beyond Formenton so not sure why you listed him. Also Greig isn't a fulltime AHLer he's only there for a couple weeks until the WHL starts up again, so take him out.

Beyond that yeah you're hoping to get one or two fulltime NHLers. That's average not terrible.

 

[Emrasie]

I think there may be a few potential NHL players in Belleville & elsewhere in this org, whether they make it or ever play in Ottawa full time is another question.

Potential NHL Players in the AHL:
L. Brown, Formenton, Greig, Thomson, Brannstrom, Kastelic, Sokolov & Daccord.

Potential NHL Players Elsewhere:
Sanderson, Pinto, JBD, Kleven, Jarventie, Guennette & Merilainen.

Brannstrom in not in AHL. Or i miss something big.

It's not horseshit it's the truth.

Belleville had a great team last year and their two best forwards graduated to the big club, three actually if you include Balcers. If you didn't see a pretty big regression coming, that's on you.

Without big boost on D, i don't see how Belleville could compete for a playoff spot. Last year Brown Norris Batherson were the offense, and the D with Brannstrom was good, not great but good.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think all of you above are arguing the same thing and dont think FQL is saying we should have elite prospects to keep us competitive.

He's saying we should have at least acquired or signed some vets to help the younger guys as to continue creating a positive environment down there, instead of letting the top guys graduate and do a piss poor job of managing our top end veteran help for the new crop of incoming young guys.

I think the forwards are fine because its a number's game since we cant move guys to ECHL--and at least they are young prospects exposed to pro game--the defense though....MY GOD the defense was brutally managed. Just like our NHL team's.

 

[Emrasie]

.

 

[aragorn]

Brannstrom in not in AHL. Or i miss something big.

He's not exactly in the NHL full time either, he's a taxi squad guy who is in & out of the lineup along with Wolanin right now depending on their play. Brannstrom is better offensively & Wolanin is bigger & doesn't get knocked off pucks or pushed around defensively as much as Brannstrom. I could see Sanderson leap frog both next yr.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

It's not horseshit it's the truth.

Belleville had a great team last year and their two best forwards graduated to the big club, three actually if you include Balcers. If you didn't see a pretty big regression coming, that's on you.

I absolutely expected the team to be bad, doesn't mean I'm okay with it. The idea that this was completely unavoidable and there's nothing Dorion could have done is 100% unfiltered horseshit.

There's plenty of talent on Belleville as X has pointed out. Dorion filled out the AHL roster with plugs like Beaudin, Shaw (375k AHL salary btw), Labrie, Goloubef, and Bishop just like he did in Ottawa. Not to mention the 200k the Haley to serve absolutely no purpose.

This just boils down to how terrible Dorion is at his job and how he evaluates players. Again, I'm not saying Belleville should be a great team, I expect that our farm team in a rebuild will be a competitive one that doesn't routinely get blown out of the water.

 

[Emrasie]

He's not exactly in the NHL full time either, he's a taxi squad guy who is in & out of the lineup along with Wolanin right now depending on their play. Brannstrom is better offensively & Wolanin is bigger & doesn't get knocked off pucks or pushed around defensively as much as Brannstrom. I could see Sanderson leap frog both next yr.

He is above Wolanin on the coach mind it's clear at this point , when he was not injured he played, not the case for Wolanin so you can list Wolanin in AHL instead of EB.

Wolanin is more big (your taste) but he do more TO (not my taste). From the games i saw (all) EB had one bad game (the last one) and few good ones, Wolanin had few bad games (the last one too) and i don't remember a good game from him this year.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think Branstrom has only been out due to injury no?

 

[Emrasie]

I think Branstrom has only been out due to injury no?

And the quarantines in some way.

But i think if he has 2-3 bad games DJ would easily put Wolanin at his place. So it's depends on him to stay on the roster.

 

[Ouroboros]

That's horseshit. We dont need the BSens to be world beaters, we need them to be a competitive environment for guys to develop. It would have taken an absolute bare minimum effort to accomplish that.

That list of guys you put there sure does represent a hell of a lot of draft and trade capital. We're pretty f***ed as a financially crippled team if only 1 or 2 NHLers emerge from there. Saved 250k though so that makes it all okay. High fives for Dorion

They will be somewhat competitive. When they went to Laval for those 4 games they hadn't run any full practice sessions with their entire roster - just skill development drills, small space drills and video sessions. They need systems work and line rushes to tighten up their neutral zone and defensive zone, but they are still going to be limited by lack of talent. They lost 7 of their top 10 scoring players from last season and weren't able to backfill with top prospects.

We're not f***ed if guys like Kastelic, Reinhardt, Abramov, Davidsson, Aspirot, etc. don't become NHL players. Very little changes in that scenario. We're f***ed if Sanderson, Stützle and our 2021 1st rounder don't become high-end NHL players at their positions, and if Greig, Pinto, JBD, Brannstrom and Formenton don't provide some quality depth to augment what we already have.

If you're right and our amateur scouting also sucks, then there is absolutely no hope for this organization

In no order :

1) Lassi Thompson (19th OA in 2019, MAIN piece in return for Duchene, which we paid a King's ransom to get in the first place)
2) Vitali Abramov (2nd piece in return for Duchene)
3) Jonathan Davidsson (3rd piece in return for Duchene, seems to have fallen off the map since his concussion issues)
4) Logan Brown (11th OA in 2016, used a 3rd round pick to move up)
5) Filip Chlapik (48th OA in 2015)
6) Alex Formenton (47th OA in 2017)
7) Ridly Greig (28th OA in 2020)
8) Egor Sokolov (61st OA in 2020)
9) Filip Gustavsson (2nd piece in return for Brassard, which we paid a King's ransom to get in the first place)
10) Joey Daccord (7th round pick in 2015)
11) Kevin Mandolese (6th round pick in 2018)
12) Mark Kastelic (5th round pick in 2019)
13) Cole Reinhardt (6th round pick in 2020)

Also : Clark Bishop (return for Max Lajoie, former 5th round pick), Jack Kopacka (return for Christian Jaros, former 5th round pick), Jean-Christophe Beaudin (return for Max McCormick, former 6th round pick), Parker Kelly, Jonathan Aspirot and Olle Alsing (as "young" Free Agents)

If there's only 1 NHL player in there, that would be a LOT OF MISS from Dorion in terms of draft and trade capital

I think you're too focused on how some of these players were acquired, and not nearly enough on whether they're actually good.

When I see a guy like Lassi Thomson I see somebody that the Senators reached to take 19th overall and hasn't exactly been on an upward trajectory since. Troy Mann said his goal is to get him to a place where he can get a cup of coffee in the NHL in early 2023 - when you hear something like that it should be very clear that he's viewed as a long-term project and not being counted on as key component of future Ottawa Senators teams. So what does it matter that we got him in the Matt Duchene trade? The same is true for Abramov who is probably a coinflip to be an NHL player and for Davidsson who has no chance whatsoever.

I think Formenton and Greig are likely NHL players. If we get 1 or 2 more out of the rest of that group I think that's fairly reasonable.