2019 University Cup (Lethbridge, AB)

[freddy123]

Couple of things. Philip has signed a 2 year ELC with Calgary for next year. He has a high ankle sprain only.

Really happy he didn't get screwed out of his pro shot by getting hurt this weekend.

 

[Rob]

UPEI would not have the sponsorship dollars. I'm also unsure if they have enough hotels. Teams would prob have to fly into Halifax and bus over. Calgary or MRU do not have the fan support. neither does most of the places you named. Trois Rivieres has a bunch of peeler bars and not much else. A Carleton/ Ottawa bid would be nice.

I would just like to add that Ottawa-Gatineau has an excellent selection of strip clubs as well.

So basically it gets my vote.

.................................................................................................................................................

Seriously though I think the only way Ottawa would work is if UofO and Carelton were allowed to be co-hosts for the tournament. That would guarantee two home gates. Plus, the OUA would be getting four teams anyway. Not sure of USports has ever done that for a tournament though.

 

[Rob]

What's going to make USports more compelling is to have exciting games in front of large, energetic crowds. The only way to do that is to have the Championship be a series hosted by one of the teams involved.

That is what's so great about Halifax. It is in the perfect location. Next year with Acadia hosting there is most likely to be at least two Nova Scotia schools to draw from. In 2016 the final between UNB and STFX was sold out with just under 11,000 fans. That's massive for any USport event.

 

[AUS Fan]

I would just like to add that Ottawa-Gatineau has an excellent selection of strip clubs as well.

So basically it gets my vote.

.................................................................................................................................................

Seriously though I think the only way Ottawa would work is if UofO and Carelton were allowed to be co-hosts for the tournament. That would guarantee two home gates. Plus, the OUA would be getting four teams anyway. Not sure of USports has ever done that for a tournament though.

The OUA will Not get 4 teams. They tried that when Lakehead hosted and the CIS gave AUS and CW the extra spot both years.

 

[AUS Fan]

As per Findlay Twitter - Jason Fram appears headed to Kunlun Red Star of the KHL.

Also just saw that he intends to play for China in 2022 Olympics.

 

[AdamMcg83]

The OUA will Not get 4 teams. They tried that when Lakehead hosted and the CIS gave AUS and CW the extra spot both years.

That was in the old 6-team format, though. If an Ontario team ever hosts in the current format, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with four teams.

 

[AUS Fan]

That was in the old 6-team format, though. If an Ontario team ever hosts in the current format, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with four teams.

Good point.

 

[MiamiHockey]

That is what's so great about Halifax. It is in the perfect location. Next year with Acadia hosting there is most likely to be at least two Nova Scotia schools to draw from. In 2016 the final between UNB and STFX was sold out with just under 11,000 fans. That's massive for any USport event.

Agreed. The trouble is, to get that level of interest you need the Host (St FX is essentially the host in Halifax) to make the Finals. That means having it in either Edmonton or Frederiction every year.

Or, you could have that level of support every year with my proposal ... OUA West/East vs CW Semis and OUA East/West vs AUS Semis hosted by one of the conferences (alternating) ... followed by a Best-of-3 University Cup Finals hosted by one of the conferences (alternating). The host university would have to guarantee a sufficient facility, but every university in Canada is in proximity to a decent venue (e.g., St FX / Acadia might have to host a series in Halifax).

The attendance for each of those series would FAR exceed what any single University Cup would garner ... not to mention you'd be adding more games, so the gate revenues would more than pay for travel costs.

 

[AUS Fan]

As per the Gleaner, Dubeau signs with Fort Wayne Komets.

Edit: Brassard of Carleton has also signed in the Coast.

 

[AdamMcg83]

Agreed. The trouble is, to get that level of interest you need the Host (St FX is essentially the host in Halifax) to make the Finals. That means having it in either Edmonton or Frederiction every year.

Or, you could have that level of support every year with my proposal ... OUA West/East vs CW Semis and OUA East/West vs AUS Semis hosted by one of the conferences (alternating) ... followed by a Best-of-3 University Cup Finals hosted by one of the conferences (alternating). The host university would have to guarantee a sufficient facility, but every university in Canada is in proximity to a decent venue (e.g., St FX / Acadia might have to host a series in Halifax).

The attendance for each of those series would FAR exceed what any single University Cup would garner ... not to mention you'd be adding more games, so the gate revenues would more than pay for travel costs.

If you still want the final series to be broadcast on TV, you need a preset host. Just because every school is in the vicinity of a venue, doesn't mean that venue is available on short notice. Securing a broadcast-ready rink for three games over one weekend requires weeks (or months) of lead time.

The other issue is that this model trades off more teams with a chance to win, in exchange for bigger crowds. I'm not sure which is better, but I find it hard to see why any program would embrace this change. Even for the big dogs, this would severely limit their chances of reaching and winning the tournament every year.

 

[MiamiHockey]

If you still want the final series to be broadcast on TV, you need a preset host. Just because every school is in the vicinity of a venue, doesn't mean that venue is available on short notice. Securing a broadcast-ready rink for three games over one weekend requires weeks (or months) of lead time.

The other issue is that this model trades off more teams with a chance to win, in exchange for bigger crowds. I'm not sure which is better, but I find it hard to see why any program would embrace this change. Even for the big dogs, this would severely limit their chances of reaching and winning the tournament every year.

Strong comments, but these beg three questions:

1) Does the Final Series NEED to be broadcast on Sportsnet? Is there any benefit to it?

2) What are the costs versus benefits to individual programs? Do they get any money for going to the University Cup?

3) Which programs would support / oppose this?


To question 1), I found this article interesting: U SPORTS national broadcast numbers “underwhelming” – The Charlatan, Carleton's independent newspaper
It's a few years old, but it suggests that people don't tune in for USports broadcasts. One sentence jumps out:
"With the exception of the game between the Huskies and Lancers, no non-football broadcast has eclipsed an average viewership of 60,000 viewers since the start of the 2014-15 academic year."
So, we know that the University Cup draws fewer than 60,000 viewers. I'd be curious to know the exact number, but suffice to say the people who watch the University Cup Final are not casual viewers who happen to stumble across it.

Here's an article that suggests that USports got $100,000 per year for their broadcast rights:
Time to change the channel? — The Silhouette
So, it seems that broadcasting brings in essentially nothing. Another line in that article caught my attention:
... "Sportsnet said “atmosphere and general attendance in venue still needs to be addressed”. U Sports members echoed this sentiment, saying, “Due to small crowds, it didn’t look good on TV… This hurts the brand.” ... "


To question 2) ... I know that going to the University Cup comes with costs beyond travel. I can imagine a number of top programs who would far prefer to share some home gates than traverse across the country for one or two games. Thinking of McGill / Carleton / Ottawa ...


To question 3) ... if I'm Alberta or UNB, I'm all for this. It does three things:
a) Meaningful conference championships ... crowds would only grow with a meaningful championship that had a chance at a national title on the line.
b) Single-elimination tournaments favour the underdogs ... Carleton had a chance against UNB in one game, but not in three.
c) Crowds ... who wouldn't be all-in for an Alberta-UNB series over a single game?

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Agreed. The trouble is, to get that level of interest you need the Host (St FX is essentially the host in Halifax) to make the Finals. That means having it in either Edmonton or Frederiction every year.

Or, you could have that level of support every year with my proposal ... OUA West/East vs CW Semis and OUA East/West vs AUS Semis hosted by one of the conferences (alternating) ... followed by a Best-of-3 University Cup Finals hosted by one of the conferences (alternating). The host university would have to guarantee a sufficient facility, but every university in Canada is in proximity to a decent venue (e.g., St FX / Acadia might have to host a series in Halifax).

The attendance for each of those series would FAR exceed what any single University Cup would garner ... not to mention you'd be adding more games, so the gate revenues would more than pay for travel costs.

Acadia Arena (Olympic ice) seats aprox 2,000 and they have a very loyal fanbase.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

I don't have a problem with the 8 team format and the 3 OUA berths.
If anything, it's the one and done that I don't like.

 

[AUS Fan]

More from Findlay Twitter: Slater Doggett of Queen’s to Florida ECHL
Alberta’s Stephane Legault will join South Carolina in the ECHL.

Not to diminish any of these signings, but I'm impressed with Philip and Fram signings more than ECHL.

 

[AdamMcg83]

Strong comments, but these beg three questions:

1) Does the Final Series NEED to be broadcast on Sportsnet? Is there any benefit to it?

2) What are the costs versus benefits to individual programs? Do they get any money for going to the University Cup?

3) Which programs would support / oppose this?


To question 1), I found this article interesting: U SPORTS national broadcast numbers “underwhelming” – The Charlatan, Carleton's independent newspaper
It's a few years old, but it suggests that people don't tune in for USports broadcasts. One sentence jumps out:
"With the exception of the game between the Huskies and Lancers, no non-football broadcast has eclipsed an average viewership of 60,000 viewers since the start of the 2014-15 academic year."
So, we know that the University Cup draws fewer than 60,000 viewers. I'd be curious to know the exact number, but suffice to say the people who watch the University Cup Final are not casual viewers who happen to stumble across it.

Here's an article that suggests that USports got $100,000 per year for their broadcast rights:
Time to change the channel? — The Silhouette
So, it seems that broadcasting brings in essentially nothing. Another line in that article caught my attention:
... "Sportsnet said “atmosphere and general attendance in venue still needs to be addressed”. U Sports members echoed this sentiment, saying, “Due to small crowds, it didn’t look good on TV… This hurts the brand.” ... "


To question 2) ... I know that going to the University Cup comes with costs beyond travel. I can imagine a number of top programs who would far prefer to share some home gates than traverse across the country for one or two games. Thinking of McGill / Carleton / Ottawa ...


To question 3) ... if I'm Alberta or UNB, I'm all for this. It does three things:
a) Meaningful conference championships ... crowds would only grow with a meaningful championship that had a chance at a national title on the line.
b) Single-elimination tournaments favour the underdogs ... Carleton had a chance against UNB in one game, but not in three.
c) Crowds ... who wouldn't be all-in for an Alberta-UNB series over a single game?

I definitely see your point about broadcast dollars and rights. But I just don't see a scenario in which usports opts for a system that prohibits them from being on TV - despite the ratings or the nominal rights fees. The highlights alone on Sportsnet Central and Sportscentre might be worth more to the league than the additional gates in the model you mention above.

From the Alberta and UNB perspective, the current format virtually guarantees their appearance at the tournament. I'd think that they would much prefer a single-elimination model where they reach nationals every year, versus a very real possibility of seeing their season end with a league championship loss.

Having said all that, the single-elimination prospect is a real problem. I just don't know if the concessions needed for the series model is the right solution - might end up trading problems for other problems, with a net-zero result.

 

[Rob]

Well as it stands now the eight team format is here to stay. This year in Lethbridge was an attendance embarrassment but that was predicted as soon as they were announced as host. The 2020 tournament should be a success with two Nova Scotia teams (more than likely).

So the question is who will host 2o21?

Ryseron is probably the only hope to get it back in the OUA. Edmonton would be a logical choice but they haven't bid in a long time despite the opportunity to do so. My guess is Halifax once again with either X or SMU as host.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Well as it stands now the eight team format is here to stay. This year in Lethbridge was an attendance embarrassment but that was predicted as soon as they were announced as host. The 2020 tournament should be a success with two Nova Scotia teams (more than likely).

So the question is who will host 2o21?

Ryseron is probably the only hope to get it back in the OUA. Edmonton would be a logical choice but they haven't bid in a long time despite the opportunity to do so. My guess is Halifax once again with either X or SMU as host.

I'm guessing Moncton, if it's in the Maritimes, we no that they would draw well and U de M is on the upswing.
If no other interest, Halifax wood be good option for a second year, SMU or X could host.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

Can definitely see Moncton bidding again really soon.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I definitely see your point about broadcast dollars and rights. But I just don't see a scenario in which usports opts for a system that prohibits them from being on TV - despite the ratings or the nominal rights fees. The highlights alone on Sportsnet Central and Sportscentre might be worth more to the league than the additional gates in the model you mention above.

From the Alberta and UNB perspective, the current format virtually guarantees their appearance at the tournament. I'd think that they would much prefer a single-elimination model where they reach nationals every year, versus a very real possibility of seeing their season end with a league championship loss.

Having said all that, the single-elimination prospect is a real problem. I just don't know if the concessions needed for the series model is the right solution - might end up trading problems for other problems, with a net-zero result.

The underlying assumption is that being on national TV provides some measurable benefit to USports. I don't think it's at all true ... and, in fact, I think that any marginal benefit of having Dave Reid commentate the University Cup is countered by a detrimental effect of broadcasting poorly-attended events.

With the advent of digital broadcasting and streaming, it's not at all necessary to have a Sportsnet broadcast to get on highlight packages. We often see highlights from the CHL, AHL, and even KHL shown on TSN / Sportsnet. People know about those leagues, and those leagues are quite successful without national broadcasts.

I agree that USports will always pursue such a deal ... but I am also quite confident in stating that USports does not know what it is doing. Exhibit A: their constant "rebranding" from CIAU to CIS to USports without changing the actual product.

 

[Bob Stauffer]

100% a USports Player getting an NHL deal (Philp) or KHL deal (Fram) trumps ECHL signings.
These are the situations where a Usports program can be proud of advancing players to the next level.
Philp and Fram's improvements as players should be a recruiting tool for Stan Marple and Ian Herbers moving forward.
BTW. when was the last time a CIAU/CIS/USports Player got an NHL deal right out of Canadian University?

Legault can skate at an AHL level but hasn't been right since tearing his achilles in the summer, his CIS eligibility was done
Dubeau I thought had one more year.
I wish he left last spring

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Chris Clapperton just signed an AHL one-way contract with Belleville Senators for next season.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Dubeau I thought had one more year.
I wish he left last spring

Dubeau does have one more year of eligibility, but it was well known here that he was graduating and wanting to turn pro after 4 years. Same for Clapperton.
(well technically, 3 and a half years for Clapperton).

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Dubeau does have one more year of eligibility, but it was well known here that he was graduating and wanting to turn pro after 4 years. Same for Clapperton.
(well technically, 3 and a half years for Clapperton).

Good for him!
Big loss for UNB!

 

[Eastern Scout]

Strong comments, but these beg three questions:

1) Does the Final Series NEED to be broadcast on Sportsnet? Is there any benefit to it?

2) What are the costs versus benefits to individual programs? Do they get any money for going to the University Cup?

3) Which programs would support / oppose this?


To question 1), I found this article interesting: U SPORTS national broadcast numbers “underwhelming” – The Charlatan, Carleton's independent newspaper
It's a few years old, but it suggests that people don't tune in for USports broadcasts. One sentence jumps out:
"With the exception of the game between the Huskies and Lancers, no non-football broadcast has eclipsed an average viewership of 60,000 viewers since the start of the 2014-15 academic year."
So, we know that the University Cup draws fewer than 60,000 viewers. I'd be curious to know the exact number, but suffice to say the people who watch the University Cup Final are not casual viewers who happen to stumble across it.

Here's an article that suggests that USports got $100,000 per year for their broadcast rights:
Time to change the channel? — The Silhouette
So, it seems that broadcasting brings in essentially nothing. Another line in that article caught my attention:
... "Sportsnet said “atmosphere and general attendance in venue still needs to be addressed”. U Sports members echoed this sentiment, saying, “Due to small crowds, it didn’t look good on TV… This hurts the brand.” ... "


To question 2) ... I know that going to the University Cup comes with costs beyond travel. I can imagine a number of top programs who would far prefer to share some home gates than traverse across the country for one or two games. Thinking of McGill / Carleton / Ottawa ...


To question 3) ... if I'm Alberta or UNB, I'm all for this. It does three things:
a) Meaningful conference championships ... crowds would only grow with a meaningful championship that had a chance at a national title on the line.
b) Single-elimination tournaments favour the underdogs ... Carleton had a chance against UNB in one game, but not in three.
c) Crowds ... who wouldn't be all-in for an Alberta-UNB series over a single game?

Adding into Answer to #2 question
Very few are actually aware of the details and costs with attending the 2019 UCUP.
Lethbridge as host supplied literally nothing this year: No hotel rooms, No Meals, No transportation allowance etc...
Teams were on the hook for 100% of the cost + additional event costs (accreditations, tickets etc...)
USports does not provide any financial comp to any team attending the event.

Avg costs per team this year:
UNB & StFX @ $120k + each
Queens, Carlton, Guelph @ $105-110k + each
Alberta & Sask @ $75k + each

Teams even had to pay for bus transportation to and from practices on Monday and Tuesday... which were school buses!

Lethbridge hosting was much different than Saskatoon/Halifax/UNB over the last 6 years. At all of those events (as well as many before these host sites) a large portion of hotel rooms are supplied, 75-90% of meals supplied and transportation allowance based on % of actual cost was covered by Host committee.

Saskatoon has proven to be the top host over the years. They have hosted 5 times and own the Top 3 Average attendance marks (2014,2000, 2013). All 5 of their hosting years rank in the top 7 in history for average attendance.
In total attendance by event, Saskatoon ranks #2,3,4,5,6 of all time. Only Halifax in 2015-16 had a higher attendance. Halifax had a total of 8 games to draw, whereas Saskatoon had 7 in all 5 events they hosted.

Atlantic Canada (Hfx/Moncton/Fredericton) host very well.

Host Rankings by Total Tournament Attendance:
1. 2015-16: Halifax (8 games) @ 43,513
2. 2013-14: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 41,089
3. 1999-00: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 40,956
4. 2012-13: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 38,347
5. 1998-99: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 37,184
6. 1997-98: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 37,121
7. 2003-04: Fredericton (8 games) @ 30,878
8. 2014-15: Halifax (8 games) @ 30,703
9. 2002-03: Fredericton (8 games) @ 30,000
10. 2006-07: Moncton (7 games) @ 29,698
11. 2004-05: Edmonton (7 games) @ 27,213
12. 2011-12: Fredericton (7 games) @ 26,250
13. 2007-08: Moncton (7 games) @ 25,443
14. 2010-11: Fredericton (7 games) @ 24,941
15. 2016-17: Fredericton (8 games) @ 24,898
16. 2017-18: Fredericton (8 games) @ 24,402

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Adding into Answer to #2 question
Very few are actually aware of the details and costs with attending the 2019 UCUP.
Lethbridge as host supplied literally nothing this year: No hotel rooms, No Meals, No transportation allowance etc...
Teams were on the hook for 100% of the cost + additional event costs (accreditations, tickets etc...)
USports does not provide any financial comp to any team attending the event.

Avg costs per team this year:
UNB & StFX @ $120k + each
Queens, Carlton, Guelph @ $105-110k + each
Alberta & Sask @ $75k + each

Teams even had to pay for bus transportation to and from practices on Monday and Tuesday... which were school buses!

Lethbridge hosting was much different than Saskatoon/Halifax/UNB over the last 6 years. At all of those events (as well as many before these host sites) a large portion of hotel rooms are supplied, 75-90% of meals supplied and transportation allowance based on % of actual cost was covered by Host committee.

Saskatoon has proven to be the top host over the years. They have hosted 5 times and own the Top 3 Average attendance marks (2014,2000, 2013). All 5 of their hosting years rank in the top 7 in history for average attendance.
In total attendance by event, Saskatoon ranks #2,3,4,5,6 of all time. Only Halifax in 2015-16 had a higher attendance. Halifax had a total of 8 games to draw, whereas Saskatoon had 7 in all 5 events they hosted.

Atlantic Canada (Hfx/Moncton/Fredericton) host very well.

Host Rankings by Total Tournament Attendance:
1. 2015-16: Halifax (8 games) @ 43,513
2. 2013-14: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 41,089
3. 1999-00: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 40,956
4. 2012-13: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 38,347
5. 1998-99: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 37,184
6. 1997-98: Saskatoon (7 games) @ 37,121
7. 2003-04: Fredericton (8 games) @ 30,878
8. 2014-15: Halifax (8 games) @ 30,703
9. 2002-03: Fredericton (8 games) @ 30,000
10. 2006-07: Moncton (7 games) @ 29,698
11. 2004-05: Edmonton (7 games) @ 27,213
12. 2011-12: Fredericton (7 games) @ 26,250
13. 2007-08: Moncton (7 games) @ 25,443
14. 2010-11: Fredericton (7 games) @ 24,941
15. 2016-17: Fredericton (8 games) @ 24,898
16. 2017-18: Fredericton (8 games) @ 24,402

Any idea on what the averages were from?
Waterloo/Kitch 2001-2
Lakehead 2009-10
Lethbridge 2019