Speculation: 2019 Trade Deadline

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I dont believe the TDL decisions are Hollands to make to be honest.

IF it's true that SY will be returning as GM then you know damn well he will be influencing decisions and what he wants matters.

I am expecting nyquist and Jensen tk be traded plus one other. Whether thats Howard, vanek glendening or a wildcard like Mantha I am not sure

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I dont believe the TDL decisions are Hollands to make to be honest.

IF it's true that SY will be returning as GM then you know damn well he will be influencing decisions and what he wants matters.

I am expecting nyquist and Jensen tk be traded plus one other. Whether thats Howard, vanek glendening or a wildcard like Mantha I am not sure

Yzerman is not making decisions for the wings at this time. This is simply false. Holland has been given instructions to not jeopardize the future not don't make moves because Yzerman is guaranteed to replace you....

 

[Pavels Dog]

I dont believe the TDL decisions are Hollands to make to be honest.

IF it's true that SY will be returning as GM then you know damn well he will be influencing decisions and what he wants matters.

I am expecting nyquist and Jensen tk be traded plus one other. Whether thats Howard, vanek glendening or a wildcard like Mantha I am not sure

Even if it was true that Yzerman has influence, why anyone would think their opinions would be drastically different is beyond me. Yzerman is from Holland's school of management. Where Stevie MIGHT be different is by being more willing to take risks, but that also comes with the territory (taking over a struggling team, not having any legacy or playoff streak to worry about, having a core in place and focusing on the supporting pieces etc.).

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Despite what a lot of people will say on here, I'm sure Holland is getting ready to work the phones and make some trades like has every deadline the last couple of years. I'm expecting a 2nd and a prospect for Nyquist. I dont think a lot of teams will give up a first for him when they could use it in a package for a guy like Stone potentially.

Stone and Duchene re signing is the best thing that could happpen for Detroit

Even one of them re-signing would help significantly in my opinion. I think ideally it would be great if Panarin or one of Stone and Duchene is moved in the next 36 hours as well, them being moved by tomorrow night would be huge.

The one thing about the second round route is it depends on the prospect add. On Nyquist I think we can expect that, is it a C prospect, a B prospect or is it a high tier one that has struggled. Not sure an A level prospect is coming back. Like could we get a second and Bellows out of the NYI, can we get Dallas to throw in a prospect we like? I mean the second and prospect brings more teams to actually talk with and with three sure fire first round guys they stall the market on the guys below them. Now that is also how Holland plays a miracle and still lands a first on somebody he maybe shouldn't, kind of like his Tatar windfall last year happened because Vegas got really comfortable talking big packages on Karlsson and didn't do a good job of adjusting down when it came time to shift their focus in my opinion.

We will see, Holland has some options here. I don't think he has the easiest job and it is a shame for us this many quality guys are listed, seems like the first deadline in a while where we have this many top flight UFAs going to market. But he needs to likely go the prospect route. This worries me a little as it is our pro scouting department that I have the most questions with and the area I feel like has struggled the most since we let Verbeek go with Yzerman to Tampa. But it hurts our AHL and NHL assessment on assets. I think we fixed some of the amateur problems when Nill departed. Should be an interesting next 8 days.

 

[raymond23]

I dont believe the TDL decisions are Hollands to make to be honest.

IF it's true that SY will be returning as GM then you know damn well he will be influencing decisions and what he wants matters.

I am expecting nyquist and Jensen tk be traded plus one other. Whether thats Howard, vanek glendening or a wildcard like Mantha I am not sure

Holland is a hall-0f-fame GM who has run this team for like 20+ years and multiple cups. He would never let that happen, he's a prideful guy and rightfully so.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Even if it was true that Yzerman has influence, why anyone would think their opinions would be drastically different is beyond me. Yzerman is from Holland's school of management. Where Stevie MIGHT be different is by being more willing to take risks, but that also comes with the territory (taking over a struggling team, not having any legacy or playoff streak to worry about, having a core in place and focusing on the supporting pieces etc.).

both were GMs during the cap era for contenders and while there were similarities (focus on drafting and developing, re-signing homegrown talent, loyalty to staff etc), there were some pretty major differencies too. yzerman is clearly the more aggressive of those two and wasn't as big on over-ripening and prioritizing the home-grown part in roster construction. and they seem to value certain traits in players differently. kenny gave old vets short-term, relatively cheap deals to fill holes a lot more than yzerman has who filled those holes with more prime aged and thus expensive players.

jim nill, who i don't want anywhere near DRW GM position, also comes from the same school but has shown differencies to both kenny and yzerman in how he values certain players and in roster construction.

 

[Winger98]

Even one of them re-signing would help significantly in my opinion. I think ideally it would be great if Panarin or one of Stone and Duchene is moved in the next 36 hours as well, them being moved by tomorrow night would be huge.

The one thing about the second round route is it depends on the prospect add. On Nyquist I think we can expect that, is it a C prospect, a B prospect or is it a high tier one that has struggled. Not sure an A level prospect is coming back. Like could we get a second and Bellows out of the NYI, can we get Dallas to throw in a prospect we like? I mean the second and prospect brings more teams to actually talk with and with three sure fire first round guys they stall the market on the guys below them. Now that is also how Holland plays a miracle and still lands a first on somebody he maybe shouldn't, kind of like his Tatar windfall last year happened because Vegas got really comfortable talking big packages on Karlsson and didn't do a good job of adjusting down when it came time to shift their focus in my opinion.

We will see, Holland has some options here. I don't think he has the easiest job and it is a shame for us this many quality guys are listed, seems like the first deadline in a while where we have this many top flight UFAs going to market. But he needs to likely go the prospect route. This worries me a little as it is our pro scouting department that I have the most questions with and the area I feel like has struggled the most since we let Verbeek go with Yzerman to Tampa. But it hurts our AHL and NHL assessment on assets. I think we fixed some of the amateur problems when Nill departed. Should be an interesting next 8 days.

I think Jensen is that guy. Look at who is likely on the trade market for D, and where is Jensen's competition? The vast majority of good blueliners looking at being UFA this summer are on contending teams, they won't be moved. His main competition on the D market might be Jordan Oesterle and Jordie Benn. While the forward group is overloaded and will probably hurt the return for Nyquist, I think Holland's in a real nice position with Jensen.

 

[newfy]

I think Jensen is that guy. Look at who is likely on the trade market for D, and where is Jensen's competition? The vast majority of good blueliners looking at being UFA this summer are on contending teams, they won't be moved. His main competition on the D market might be Jordan Oesterle and Jordie Benn. While the forward group is overloaded and will probably hurt the return for Nyquist, I think Holland's in a real nice position with Jensen.

I seriously doubt Benn is on the market either with where the Habs are in the standings. Jensen is likely the top rental D available

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yzerman is not making decisions for the wings at this time. This is simply false. Holland has been given instructions to not jeopardize the future not don't make moves because Yzerman is guaranteed to replace you....

What I mean is this..

If KH said go ownership I donf want to trade Howard and nyquist but instead resign both for 7 years at 8 million and SY said heck no, that SYs opinion would overrule.

Of course KH is still running the show but I dont believe he has or would have as much autonomy as he may have had before

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

What I mean is this..

If KH said go ownership I donf want to trade Howard and nyquist but instead resign both for 7 years at 8 million and SY said heck no, that SYs opinion would overrule.

Of course KH is still running the show but I dont believe he has or would have as much autonomy as he may have had before

This would be tampering. Yzerman has no role with the Detroit Red Wings, and if the league found out he did, there would be all kinds of ramifications.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

both were GMs during the cap era for contenders and while there were similarities (focus on drafting and developing, re-signing homegrown talent, loyalty to staff etc), there were some pretty major differencies too. yzerman is clearly the more aggressive of those two and wasn't as big on over-ripening and prioritizing the home-grown part in roster construction. and they seem to value certain traits in players differently. kenny gave old vets short-term, relatively cheap deals to fill holes a lot more than yzerman has who filled those holes with more prime aged and thus expensive players.

jim nill, who i don't want anywhere near DRW GM position, also comes from the same school but has shown differencies to both kenny and yzerman in how he values certain players and in roster construction.

Holland is one of the most aggressive GMs going if his team is actually a contender. We haven't been in that same setup for quite some time, we at least had an aged core you needed to be somewhat careful with. Yzerman with Hedman and Stamkos has had anchor core pieces his entire tenure, it helps that picture. He isn't inheriting that situation here though I guess he should have Larkin, 2019 draft pick if he takes over this year. Still that isn't two top 3 picks, he isn't going to operate with the same aggression he did in Tampa, at least not right away. Most GMs that take over teams have a few immediate tweaks. But no, they aren't very philosophically different, the first person to say that and has several times on record is Steve Yzerman.

I think that is fine, it is one of the reasons I like turning to Yzerman. We just need a fresh set of eyes, but I don't think the process will be all that different. He just comes in hopefully towards the end and on the upswing part of the build. A lot of that depends on the lottery though in terms of how quickly we exit this part of the rebuild.

 

[Heaton]

Holland is one of the most aggressive GMs going if his team is actually a contender. We haven't been in that same setup for quite some time, we at least had an aged core you needed to be somewhat careful with. Yzerman with Hedman and Stamkos has had anchor core pieces his entire tenure, it helps that picture. He isn't inheriting that situation here though I guess he should have Larkin, 2019 draft pick if he takes over this year. Still that isn't two top 3 picks, he isn't going to operate with the same aggression he did in Tampa, at least not right away. Most GMs that take over teams have a few immediate tweaks. But no, they aren't very philosophically different, the first person to say that and has several times on record is Steve Yzerman.

I think that is fine, it is one of the reasons I like turning to Yzerman. We just need a fresh set of eyes, but I don't think the process will be all that different. He just comes in hopefully towards the end and on the upswing part of the build. A lot of that depends on the lottery though in terms of how quickly we exit this part of the rebuild.

What do you consider aggressive? Even when Holland had a contender he was fairly conservative in the cap era. Or at the very least, he was aggressive in getting role/depth players. He rarely made those huge splashes once the cap was introduced.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Rafalski in free agency, Stuart trade and Hossa in free agency were all very aggressive moves when we were a contending team at the start of the cap era. We weren't in a buy all in mode from Quincey on really and even he had RFA thoughts and protections in terms of his last significant swing at a team in the cap era, we could add pieces to get better but nothing crazy with an aging core at a certain point.

However if you think that Yzerman doesn't have an old Callahan, Garrison, Girardi and some of those on his resume, sorry he does. Some of that is him doing a decent job of making lemonade out of MSL demanding out, but every once in a while that is promoted as him seeing ahead of the curve. Yzerman will tell anyone that listens (so not a ton of luck around here) how crucial Holland is to his career. Actually it is why I am hopeful that Holland will stay on in some role, they really do trust each other and talk often even since Stevie has moved on. The national guys always point out they are next to each other at GM meetings and everything else. They don't approach the game all that different, I have heard that from several in terms of they have similar approaches. Stevie does have the benefit of players are in awe of talking to a top 25ish all-time player. Holland cannot create that, of course Yzerman loses his tax break up here, so I am curious if it goes quite the same when he does dip into contract negotiations, but I think that is really the biggest difference. He hired a better cap management and assistant GM than Ryan Martin in my opinion.

I am really hopeful when Yzerman comes back that he takes Verbeek with him. That guy is pretty critical to the success they have had in Tampa. That the Ilitch's just gave him over was nice, but ultimately a mistake that has hurt our organization while helping Tampa. Hopeful we can right that wrong and get him back with Yzerman shortly.

 

[Run the Jewels]

What do you consider aggressive? Even when Holland had a contender he was fairly conservative in the cap era. Or at the very least, he was aggressive in getting role/depth players. He rarely made those huge splashes once the cap was introduced.

Calling Holland aggressive would be MOD nonsensical. Sure Holland was aggressive 15 years ago when he traded for Schneider, Chelios and Hasek. He has been the least aggressive GM in the league since the salary cap was implemented. He only started trading roster players when his team was out of playoff contention.

Are we crediting him for being aggressive when he picked up the phone to call Ryan Suter and Steven Stamkos's agents to see if he could get a meeting to talk to them? :slowclap:

The only trade he should get credit for was moving Datsyuk's contract, again it wasn't a roster player but it gave the team a couple at bats to fix a defense that has been a total disaster since Lidstrom retired. So definitely give him credit for that, but was it really aggressive?

 

[Shaman464]

For all the talk that Ken wants to re-sign these guys, Custance said Ken hasn’t engaged in serious talks with any of their agents yet.

I don't think that's going to stop him. Given the a lot of the contracts hes signed players to, their agents need only send over their terms, at which point Holland adds 2 extra years, a couple million more dollars and an NTC.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Rafalski in free agency, Stuart trade and Hossa in free agency were all very aggressive moves when we were a contending team at the start of the cap era.

Can UFA signings for established stars really be described as aggressive? I think the point of calling a GM's actions "aggressive" is to describe a particularly bold trade, an out of left field free agent courting, or a shocking demotion/trading away of a player. It's something that the most conservative GMs would not do.

I mean, keeping virtually all your players, avoiding promoting your young players, and signing star UFAs when available (and you're a hot destination) is about the picture of conservative GMing to me. The only thing it's not conservative about is ownership's money.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Can UFA signings for established stars really be described as aggressive? I think the point of calling a GM's actions "aggressive" is to describe a particularly bold trade, an out of left field free agent courting, or a shocking demotion/trading away of a player. It's something that the most conservative GMs would not do.

I mean, keeping virtually all your players, avoiding promoting your young players, and signing star UFAs when available (and you're a hot destination) is about the picture of conservative GMing to me. The only thing it's not conservative about is ownership's money.

Were we a locked in contender outside of the examples I gave you?

It is easy to want your GM to be aggressive. The reality is that is hard to do if you're not in that phase with your hockey team. I don't think Yzerman is near as aggressive as he was in Tampa if he inherits Detroit in 2010 is a part of the argument. When you argue somebodies performance with different variables it isn't the truest argument. Point was when we had a locked in a core and were contending he did some of these moves in the cap era.

It's fine this thing is pretty much a done deal anyway, just don't be surprised when you're hearing the same talking points under Yzerman. Keep in mind I live where I can see him basically say some of the exact same points Holland does a lot. But people will be happy for the change and frankly I could deal with this place being more positive. The global changes people think are going to happen organizationally just aren't true though that is all I am driving at.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

This would be tampering. Yzerman has no role with the Detroit Red Wings, and if the league found out he did, there would be all kinds of ramifications.

Yah ok I see that I guess

I just can't see a scenario the red wings brass would allow KH to make or not make moves not aligned with what SY wants if that is the direction they're planning to go in the summer.

IF SY does in fact return to Detroit then you can bet he has spoken informally to someone by this point,February 2019, and the direction he wants to take the franchise has been talked about.

That's not exactly tampering as I am sure lots of coaches and GMs and other executives around the league informally talk and play the "what I would do if..."

 

[Heaton]

Rafalski in free agency, Stuart trade and Hossa in free agency were all very aggressive moves when we were a contending team at the start of the cap era. We weren't in a buy all in mode from Quincey on really and even he had RFA thoughts and protections in terms of his last significant swing at a team in the cap era, we could add pieces to get better but nothing crazy with an aging core at a certain point.

Hmm, I guess we have different definitions of aggressive. Rafalski took less money to play in his home state and sought out Detroit, same with Hossa. Doesn't the story go that Hossa and his agent reached out to Holland? A 1 year deal is zero risk and when he had a chance to re-sign him, he decided to stay conservative and keep his role players who eventually walked for nothing.

As for Stuart, not sure trading a 2nd round pick is that aggressive, even though Stuart was the perfect piece to round out the team.

I consider aggressive moves being those that come with some real inherent risk, I don't see much risk in the described.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Hmm, I guess we have different definitions of aggressive. Rafalski took less money to play in his home state and sought out Detroit, same with Hossa. Doesn't the story go that Hossa and his agent reached out to Holland? A 1 year deal is zero risk and when he had a chance to re-sign him, he decided to stay conservative and keep his role players who eventually walked for nothing.

As for Stuart, not sure trading a 2nd round pick is that aggressive, even though Stuart was the perfect piece to round out the team.

I consider aggressive moves being those that come with some real inherent risk, I don't see much risk in the described.

Landing Rafalski and Hossa was aggressive. If we are just going to caveat everything as falling in his lap that he does well, I am done with this argument. It is the height of delusional that people still refuse to give him a modicum of success on one of the best 25 year stretches in the history of the league which he played a massive part in all over the organization. Ken Holland is a HHOF gm people, he isn't the nincompoop often talked about on this board. You don't get to have the 20 year developing D-man problem his biggest failing but channel everything he has done well to Bowman and the other angles. It is a mashup of both those pictures and Holland is dictated to by the market and where his team is like every other GM.

Hossa wanted to play with Kopecky and ultimately choose a different market. Hossa walking for that different contract allowed us to sign some of those depth guys. They didn't move in that direction until it was clear they were not going to land him, how that story has developed into the other Holland bashing narrative over time amazes me, but there it is. He didn't pull the contract after Franzen signed, it remained an option for Hossa that he didn't ever sign because he was on a mercenary deal for one year.

What was he going to do on Hossa but walk from him for nothing, flip him on the deadline? Get real here what arguments are we even having. It is the same for the crowd pretending in 2012 we should have sold off Datsyuk and Zetterberg when no franchise was ever going to do that at that moment. When we were a contender we were in on high prized free agents and moves at the deadline to help cup runs that were a little more sizable. We haven't been as we are not in that position that is sort of how these things work. But guess what when we were the best team in the league we were doing those things that corresponds more with that place in the standings. For Holland to return to being a more aggressive GM we have to better. Now he is also at fault for why we are bad, he couldn't overcome a system designed to get you to fall more than once, not the worst offense but certainly a part of our plight. Still while it is fun to trot out Kenny and Babs gifs in a car or that he golfs rather than does his job that is actually what is happening. That isn't how business is really done in the league and it isn't what Yzerman is going to take fault with on day one as he understands a decent amount more the limits on this position than Joe Public.

 

[Shaman464]

I think what most people are dancing around is that Holland isn’t a bad GM and between 1998 and 2010 he was very good. The issue is that he’s a guy who can keep a team on the tracks and moving forward, but not the guy who is able to pick up the pieces when the team inevitably goes off the tracks. And that’s fine. If he could do both he’d likely be rated as a top 3 GM ever in the NHL. But, he’s not, and it’s time for a rebuild, and Holland is definitely a tool, just not the right one for this job.

 

[Heaton]

Landing Rafalski and Hossa was aggressive. If we are just going to caveat everything as falling in his lap that he does well, I am done with this argument. It is the height of delusional that people still refuse to give him a modicum of success on one of the best 25 year stretches in the history of the league which he played a massive part in all over the organization. Ken Holland is a HHOF gm people, he isn't the nincompoop often talked about on this board. You don't get to have the 20 year developing D-man problem his biggest failing but channel everything he has done well to Bowman and the other angles. It is a mashup of both those pictures and Holland is dictated to by the market and where his team is like every other GM.

This current discussion has nothing to do with his abilities or Hall of Fame status, we're squabbling over the word aggressive. Hossa DID fall into Holland's lap, he fell into Holland's lap because Holland was the GM of the best team in the league and Hossa wanted to win a cup. You could say Holland aggressively forced the Lidstrom cap and made Hossa comply, but I doubt that was a huge negotiation. As for Rafalski, Holland just lost Schneider, so again, I guess you could say he had to be active to replace that hole in the defense, but Rafalski was also very actively pursuing the Wings, so it was a fairly easy signing for Holland.

What was he going to do on Hossa but walk from him for nothing, flip him on the deadline? Get real here what arguments are we even having.

Hah, of course not and that's not what I was implying. Back in 2009 I thought Hossa should walk because at that time Franzen was more valuable to the team and I thought it had to be Franzen or Hossa. A while after, I felt that Holland should've found a way to trade some group of Hudler, Filppula and/or Cleary to keep Hossa. I bought into the Patriots philosophy that you pay your stars and find your depth players for the cheap and continue to move on. Instead, we lost Hossa, then we lost Filppula, Hudler and had the Cleary debacle and didn't see anything out of it while Hossa won 3 cups with Chicago.

This is all in hindsight and with perfect information, but that's what these message boards are for.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This current discussion has nothing to do with his abilities or Hall of Fame status, we're squabbling over the word aggressive. Hossa DID fall into Holland's lap, he fell into Holland's lap because Holland was the GM of the best team in the league and Hossa wanted to win a cup. You could say Holland aggressively forced the Lidstrom cap and made Hossa comply, but I doubt that was a huge negotiation. As for Rafalski, Holland just lost Schneider, so again, I guess you could say he had to be active to replace that hole in the defense, but Rafalski was also very actively pursuing the Wings, so it was a fairly easy signing for Holland.



Hah, of course not and that's not what I was implying. Back in 2009 I thought Hossa should walk because at that time Franzen was more valuable to the team and I thought it had to be Franzen or Hossa. A while after, I felt that Holland should've found a way to trade some group of Hudler, Filppula and/or Cleary to keep Hossa. I bought into the Patriots philosophy that you pay your stars and find your depth players for the cheap and continue to move on. Instead, we lost Hossa, then we lost Filppula, Hudler and had the Cleary debacle and didn't see anything out of it while Hossa won 3 cups with Chicago.

This is all in hindsight and with perfect information, but that's what these message boards are for.

That could be fair, certainly agree with the last paragraph a lot.

I think he gets credit for signing Hossa and Rafalski, he played a massive part in the creating the environment those guys wanted to join. Rafalski was an upgrade on Schneider, he didn't just replace him he upgraded him. Yes he liked his hometown, good he paid him correctly and got him home. Hossa was a left field signing though and he was in contact with that agent when they said he would consider it Holland got aggressive on what he could offer him. Also they back-channeled through Kopecky in terms of Detroit if I remember right.

In any event, I think basically using only hindsight to point out only the negative aspects one wants to attribute is dangerous. Where I started in this argument was on Yzerman not being universally different than Holland. I mean you can say Steve Yzerman constantly referencing Holland as instrumental in how he manages and that he follows massive amounts of his teaching as evidence. Yzerman has never been bashful in signing the praises of Holland and that huge chunks of what he has built were done by mirroring those philosophies. But I guess that will be upsetting. I am ready for him to be in charge to be clear, just they aren't going to be 180 degrees different. They actually share a lot of the same principals.

 

[lomekian]

I think what most people are dancing around is that Holland isn’t a bad GM and between 1998 and 2010 he was very good. The issue is that he’s a guy who can keep a team on the tracks and moving forward, but not the guy who is able to pick up the pieces when the team inevitably goes off the tracks. And that’s fine. If he could do both he’d likely be rated as a top 3 GM ever in the NHL. But, he’s not, and it’s time for a rebuild, and Holland is definitely a tool, just not the right one for this job.

I'd say this a fair assessment. We know KH was great at re-tooling when he had some cornerstones, and we know he wasn't so great when the cornerstones retired or dropped off, and made some errors that have cost the team. The one thing we don't know either way is how he fares building a team from where we are now. However, if he's not in it for the long haul, its time to move on.

 

[Heaton]

That could be fair, certainly agree with the last paragraph a lot.

I think he gets credit for signing Hossa and Rafalski, he played a massive part in the creating the environment those guys wanted to join. Rafalski was an upgrade on Schneider, he didn't just replace him he upgraded him. Yes he liked his hometown, good he paid him correctly and got him home. Hossa was a left field signing though and he was in contact with that agent when they said he would consider it Holland got aggressive on what he could offer him. Also they back-channeled through Kopecky in terms of Detroit if I remember right.

In any event, I think basically using only hindsight to point out only the negative aspects one wants to attribute is dangerous. Where I started in this argument was on Yzerman not being universally different than Holland. I mean you can say Steve Yzerman constantly referencing Holland as instrumental in how he manages and that he follows massive amounts of his teaching as evidence. Yzerman has never been bashful in signing the praises of Holland and that huge chunks of what he has built were done by mirroring those philosophies. But I guess that will be upsetting. I am ready for him to be in charge to be clear, just they aren't going to be 180 degrees different. They actually share a lot of the same principals.

Holland deserves all of the credit he gets, he's a first ballot hall of fame GM and I think if he went somewhere like Edmonton he would make them cup contenders.

I just think that once the cap was instituted he stopped being aggressive and for good reason. I'm not saying he wasn't aggressive in those moves to bash him, I just think they were calculated moves with zero risk. I feel that if you say a move is aggressive, like in a game when a goalie is aggressive and goes out for a poke check at the hash marks, there's a big risk involved. Signing Hossa to a 1 year deal or Rafalski once Schneider was gone isn't aggressive to me. They were both fantastic moves though.

I think Holland is far too comfortable with the Wings and too loyal to some players, I feel like Yzerman is a bit less loyal and will make moves that Holland won't because Yzerman hasn't been GM here for 30 years.