Speculation: 2019 Trade Deadline III

[Tripod]

I will be thrilled if Patrick settles at a 25-30 goal, 30-35 assist two-way center.

Agreed....and that's settles in....it still could take a few years to get there.

Personally, I think Patrick DOES have 70 point upside. I just think it's silly for people to talk about PPG stats NEXT YEAR. Mind you I guess he has to get to that to get to Tavares level....lol.

He has been playing better lately....and is still on pace for 29 points over 73 games after posting 30 points over 73 games last year. How about he actually has a good Oct-Dec for the 1st time in his career. Let's start with reaching that goal 1st.

 

[TheKingPin]

I'm becoming more sold on Patrick as a No. 2 center but c'mon...are we really back on "Patrick could be a ppg scorer"? That's just not realistic.

Eh there are currently 40 players that a PPG right now. 4-0.

Kucherov already has 88 pts.

These guys are PPG: Zibanejad, Atkinson, Hertl, Giordano, Duchene.

Again, if Patrick plays like he is now he’s a PPG player. Next year he will have better linemates than Simmonds and Laughton, prob our two worst finishers. Lindblom continues to be unlucky.

 

[Chinatown88]

He was a gift from the hockey powers that be. Still not going to take him for granted. Hopefully we get another gift this upcoming lottery.

Still believe he turns out to be the 2C we need.

 

[Beef Invictus]

1. Ghost doesn’t play superior defense to Hagg. It’s no coincidence that Hagg is +7 & Ghost is a team-worst -17. The team has given up fewer goals, & scored more, with Hagg on the ice this season 5 on 5, despite Hagg getting much tougher zone starts.

2. Not what I claimed. Through either poor reading comprehension or intentional deceit you are misrepresenting what I said & the point I was making by removing the nuance.

Hagg happens to have lighter competition AND tons of time with the top 6, and he hasn't been with MacDonald. You think that helps?


You did claim that. You said that a player who plays like Ghost is, is on a bad contract. That is judging the whole contract as poor because of this season. Several people guffawed at the notion, so if that isn't what you were trying to say the failure to communicate is on your part.

 

[hatcher]

Ghost will get a not bad return. Ghost is slow compared to other years which won't come back. He could never make that play big sanheim made last night to tie the game. Speed and a big man's power move.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Eh there are currently 40 players that a PPG right now. 4-0.

Kucherov already has 88 pts.

These guys are PPG: Zibanejad, Atkinson, Hertl, Giordano, Duchene.

Again, if Patrick plays like he is now he’s a PPG player. Next year he will have better linemates than Simmonds and Laughton, prob our two worst finishers. Lindblom continues to be unlucky.

Patrick isn’t better than any of those guys at this point in his career. If a player isn’t primarily on a top PP unit it’s virtually impossible to get to PPG territory as well.

 

[Rebels57]

Patrick isn’t better than any of those guys at this point in his career. If a player isn’t primarily on a top PP unit it’s virtually impossible to get to PPG territory as well.

Hopefully Patrick replaces Simmonds on PP1. He makes the most sense.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hopefully Patrick replaces Simmonds on PP1. He makes the most sense.

JVR.

 

[Rebels57]

JVR.

JVR already replaced Coots as the slot guy on PP1.

 

[deadhead]

It's as if people forget how hard it is to be a PPG player.

The last 10 years, the Flyers have had 2....ond one of them half this board hates half the time.

How about we let Patrick, who is on a 30 point pace, become a 50-60 point C first before throwing all this PPG talk at him.

At ES or total?
PP is primarily a matter of opportunity, players have gone from 5 on PP2 to 20-25 on PP1, but that didn't make them better players.
40+ on ES is solid for a 2C, great for a two way 2C
50+ is 1C, 60+ is top of the hill.

 

[TheKingPin]

Patrick isn’t better than any of those guys at this point in his career. If a player isn’t primarily on a top PP unit it’s virtually impossible to get to PPG territory as well.

He’s just found his game. He will be better than all of these guys. He’s been on the PP1 and was our best scorer. He will be back to it. Second unit is scoring well now anyway.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

JVR already replaced Coots as the slot guy on PP1.

I honestly forget they pulled Couturier off recently although he was back there at the end last night.

But I guess it really depends if they add another higher end player &/or a scheme change with a new coaching staff.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He’s just found his game. He will be better than all of these guys. He’s been on the PP1 and was our best scorer. He will be back to it. Second unit is scoring well now anyway.

He found his game around this time last year too & then played poorly the first half of this year too. He’s gonna have to show more consistency. No guarantee he finds himself primarily back on the top pp unit & it doesn’t even matter if the Flyers second pp unit is good or bad. A player is always going to be capped if there regardless of the quality of the unit.

I don’t even dislike him or any of that but you guys are getting way too ahead of yourselves & setting unrealistic expectations at this point.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hagg happens to have lighter competition AND tons of time with the top 6, and he hasn't been with MacDonald. You think that helps?


You did claim that. You said that a player who plays like Ghost is, is on a bad contract. That is judging the whole contract as poor because of this season. Several people guffawed at the notion, so if that isn't what you were trying to say the failure to communicate is on your part.

It shouldn’t even be a discussion. If Ghost is so good that you have people acting like he’s virtually untouchable & that his $4.5m salary is one of the league’s great steals, his 5 on 5 stats shouldn’t be worse than Robert Hagg’s, who these same people argue shouldn’t be playing & isn’t worth $1.15M. It shouldn’t be in the same ballpark.

It’s an ungodly level of cognitive dissonance.

And Ghost has been poor on the PP also. Of defensemen with at least 50 minutes of PP time this season, Ghost is 48th in PP pts/60.

He’s having a really bad season & people want to ignore it and/or excuse it while focusing on lower-level whipping boys who aren’t underperforming to Ghost’s degree.

 

[hatcher]

It shouldn’t even be a discussion. If Ghost is so good that you have people acting like he’s virtually untouchable & that his $4.5m salary is one of the league’s great steals, his 5 on 5 stats shouldn’t be worse than Robert Hagg’s, who these same people argue shouldn’t be playing & isn’t worth $1.15M. It shouldn’t be in the same ballpark.

It’s an ungodly level of cognitive dissonance.

And Ghost has been poor on the PP also. Of defensemen with at least 50 minutes of PP time this season, Ghost is 48th in PP pts/60.

He’s having a really bad season & people want to ignore it and/or excuse it while focusing on lower-level whipping boys who aren’t underperforming to Ghost’s degree.

Live in the past get you far and thats what happens with fans sometimes. Ghost is expendable now more then ever.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It shouldn’t even be a discussion. If Ghost is so good that you have people acting like he’s virtually untouchable & that his $4.5m salary is one of the league’s great steals, his 5 on 5 stats shouldn’t be worse than Robert Hagg’s, who these same people argue shouldn’t be playing & isn’t worth $1.15M. It shouldn’t be in the same ballpark.

It’s an ungodly level of cognitive dissonance.

And Ghost has been poor on the PP also. Of defensemen with at least 50 minutes of PP time this season, Ghost is 48th in PP pts/60.

He’s having a really bad season & people want to ignore it and/or excuse it while focusing on lower-level whipping boys who aren’t underperforming to Ghost’s degree.

So...you're judging the entire contract based on a single year after all. Why did you object when I pointed that out?

His "really bad season" still sees him being clearly better than two dmen on the roster once you stop cherrypicking stats.

You are employing the exact same lack of foresight that had people calling for Giroux to be traded a couple years ago. Or Couturier. And you employ the same gaps in logic necessary to sustain such a position.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Live in the past get you far and thats what happens with fans sometimes. Ghost is expendable now more then ever.

Right. They say his contract is a great bargain & is too valuable to move, but they are basing that wholly on his play a season ago & ignoring his play this season.

The Flyers have actually gotten very poor value for their $4.5M in Ghost this season.

Does that mean he won’t bounce back? No. Of course he could. But he’s exhibited concerning inconsistency in 2/4 years & has had a bad season this season, so I wouldn’t say his contract is too valuable to move if you get a good trade offer. He could just as easily have more seasons like this as seasons like last year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Right. They say his contract is a great bargain & is too valuable to move, but they are basing that wholly on his play a season ago & ignoring his play this season.

The Flyers have actually gotten very poor value for their $4.5M in Ghost this season.

Does that mean he won’t bounce back? No. Of course he could. But he’s exhibited concerning inconsistency in 2/4 years & has had a bad season this season, so I wouldn’t say his contract is too valuable to move if you get a good trade offer. He could just as easily have more seasons like this as seasons like last year.

He could alternate great and poor seasons and the great seasons alone make his contract an absolute steal, and it's only getting better as the cap raises.

 

[TheKingPin]

He found his game around this time last year too & then played poorly the first half of this year too. He’s gonna have to show more consistency. No guarantee he finds himself primarily back on the top pp unit & it doesn’t even matter if the Flyers second pp unit is good or bad. A player is always going to be capped if there regardless of the quality of the unit.

I don’t even dislike him or any of that but you guys are getting way too ahead of yourselves & setting unrealistic expectations at this point.

I guess I thought it was obvious that I was going out on a limb. It’s easy enough to say G is a ppg player when he’s a ppg player. But as far as projecting a player I see enough to say Patrick could certainly get there. He will need better wings and yea pp1 time but both could happen next year.

As far as his trending, I think it makes more sense his is production are a factor of lack of offseason training and confidence. Maybe it took more than one summer free of injury to train when you’ve missed the last few years. I thought he’d be ok but he certainly may not have been. He looks great and I personally think this is the real Patrick. He’s good.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Move along.