Transfer: 2019 Summer Transfers News, Rumors, and Discussion; Part 9

[KJS14]

Yeah, it would have been the expensive loan with a 110 million option to buy for a guy you aren't sure will play every week.

Honest question for Liverpool fans: how would you feel had you sold Shaqiri and used the money to essentially loan Coutinho for the year, knowing you likely don't exercise the option to buy? Still wouldn't be the best use of funds, but you would be getting a better player to rotate the front line for this year. And I'm assuming you still come out with a decent profit on the transaction but I don't know for sure (20M for Shaqiri, 10M loan fee?).

I'm assuming Coutinho's antics when he left Liverpool factor into this decision too.

 

[Live in the Now]

Honest question for Liverpool fans: how would you feel had you sold Shaqiri and used the money to essentially loan Coutinho for the year, knowing you likely don't exercise the option to buy? Still wouldn't be the best use of funds, but you would be getting a better player to rotate the front line for this year. And I'm assuming you still come out with a decent profit on the transaction but I don't know for sure (20M for Shaqiri, 10M loan fee?).

I'm assuming Coutinho's antics when he left Liverpool factor into this decision too.

Coutinho would probably hate being on the bench a lot more than Shaqiri, and we'd also have had to kept Wilson. We have cover for the left side by using strikers there, and cover in midfield as well. Without Shaqiri we have no cover for the right.

I wouldn't do it. I don't hate him, but I do know the weaknesses of the player, and I don't think the team would be successful with him here. They defaulted to giving him the ball far too much, and he's still rather inconsistent. The rest of the team is rather consistent in their performance levels, so as amazing as he can be from time to time, I don't see a natural fit in the team.

Also, if we're talking about him in midfield where he'd have to play, Ox isn't even that much lesser than him as a central midfielder.

 

[YNWA14]

Ox is better for Klopp's midfield. I wouldn't take Coutinho back and would rather have Wilson than either.

 

[KJS14]

Coutinho would probably hate being on the bench a lot more than Shaqiri, and we'd also have had to kept Wilson. We have cover for the left side by using strikers there, and cover in midfield as well. Without Shaqiri we have no cover for the right.

I wouldn't do it. I don't hate him, but I do know the weaknesses of the player, and I don't think the team would be successful with him here. They defaulted to giving him the ball far too much, and he's still rather inconsistent. The rest of the team is rather consistent in their performance levels, so as amazing as he can be from time to time, I don't see a natural fit in the team.

Also, if we're talking about him in midfield where he'd have to play, Ox isn't even that much lesser than him as a central midfielder.

Fair points. From a rotation standpoint I was thinking you could basically have 3 guys rotating in 2 spots: Mane - Salah as your starting wingers and rotate Coutinho - Salah and Coutinho - Mane into the mix to keep them fresh.

 

[Live in the Now]

Mane and Salah want to play every single game though, so that would be very tricky.

 

[Havre]

Fears or any nonsense about Liverpool not being able to afford players is just that. Fear mongering or nonsense.

They could afford players. They just felt that it was time to let the squad grow, and that paying 80 million on a backup, who probably isn't even a first choice starter was stupid. Liverpool also see their investment in phases, where they spent it the past few windows, (and yes, much was financed by Coutinho going) and now, the plan is to continue to develop what they have and pay the contracts to keep players who've earned it.

It isn't like Spurs at all, because Liverpool actually won things (so take that comparison aside) with a squad that Klopp still feels is improving. They've only got a fraction of what Fabinho, Keita, Ox, and Gomez can do last season. Heck, even Shaqiri and Lallan offer something.

It also isn't like last year was a fluke. Some of you with no memory, or minimal memory, should remember that Liverpool have been in 3 major finals the past four seasons. Klopp has made it clear that they feel they're at the beginning of the project, and that the squad has something to grow.

Buying Coutinho, having to tailor their side around how he wants to play was never in the cards. He doesn't do what Liverpool wants him to do. He plays too slow, doesn't work, and probably most importantly, his stupid actions, along with his impossible wages make it a dumb move. I have no doubt Liverpool talked about and had discussions with many players. But when push came to shove, they rather not spend top dollars on a player who wouldn't even be a clear starter. If they bought Bruno Fernandes, odds are he takes 3-4 months minimal to integrate, before he's a starter. Even then, who knows if he's happy with that role at Liverpool.

Wait until the money reports come out and they're posting yet another clear profit.

You are right. It is not like Spurs at all - Spurs actually have a higher profit than Liverpool.

I agree that you got to have the right balance, but it is delusional to think Liverpool wouldn't have had more depth if they could. If City can have D. Silva, Mahrez and Fernandinho on the bench I don't really see why Liverpool wouldn't have more depth if they could.

 

[Live in the Now]

You are right. It is not like Spurs at all - Spurs actually have a higher profit than Liverpool.

I agree that you got to have the right balance, but it is delusional to think Liverpool wouldn't have had more depth if they could. If City can have D. Silva, Mahrez and Fernandinho on the bench I don't really see why Liverpool wouldn't have more depth if they could.

Different managers have different philosophies. That’s the gist of it pretty much. Klopp’s philosophy is very clear. Smaller squad than some other big teams, when team gets in bad situations (Bayern home and pretty much all of January), force them to pull together. Team draws on tough experiences later on (Barcelona home).

Klopp now has the luxury to claim poor and say that’s the reason, but they had plenty of players the last few seasons and loaned them out or sold them. One of those already scored for another team this season. This is the way that he wants it.


This is also clearly not the way 100% of fans want it, but he’s the manager, his approach worked, and that’s that it seems.

 

[Havre]

Different managers have different philosophies. That’s the gist of it pretty much. Klopp’s philosophy is very clear. Smaller squad than some other big teams, when team gets in bad situations (Bayern home and pretty much all of January), force them to pull together. Team draws on tough experiences later on (Barcelona home).

Klopp now has the luxury to claim poor and say that’s the reason, but they had plenty of players the last few seasons and loaned them out. This is the way that he wants it.

Don't disagree with that. Pochettino is the same - clearly doesn't want too many players around that never got a realistic shot at playing.

Nevermind Coutinho. Too many emotions connected to him it seems. But there is quite a few players between Coutinho and Shaqiri they could have gone for - if they had the money. Nothing to suggest Shaqiri is an especially "loyal" and generally valuable member of the squad when not playing.

I think Liverpool have been clever in the way they have built the squad. Maybe even having less money than the biggest clubs have helped them - forcing them to be smarter. So I'm not criticizing them at all, but it is not likely they have a lot of money stored away they are choosing not to use because they think Shaqiri (as an example) is the absolute perfect squad player for them.

I am obviously also aware that money not spent today doesn't disappear (some Spursfans seem to think so - that you got to spend the absolute maximum of what you can handle every summer). So I can't say with 100% certainty Liverpool got nothing, but if they had significant funds I am very, not 100%, certain they would have done something this summer.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Ribery to Fiorentina (2 years) is confirmed.

Bild reports Bayer Leverkusen is interested in Lovren (on loan).

 

[Chimaera]

They don’t believe in buying backups for stupid money.

How many times does that have to be said?

There is a massive gap between those two players, but Klopp doesn’t want to go buy some 30-40 million dollar player who is content to sit on their can and collect a check. He rather have a young player who’s hungry. They don’t have City’s depth, no one does. But they’re able to play 6-7 guys in midfield of good quality, and while the drop off from the front three to what they have is steep, it’s not something they could have found a way to spend and acquire what they wanted for a price that fits in their budget. Getting Pepe to play 20 matches would have been beyond stupid. Working in Ox, Origi and Brewster is much more cost effective, and the central point is, if Liverpool are going to win stuff, they need Mane, Salah and Firmino. That’s how they’re built.

They went in for the left back (Kelly) that eventually signed for Bournemouth, but they overpaid way more than Liverpool would and offered more playing time. Andy Robertson isn’t moving aside for basically any left back.

You can keep saying they have no money, but it doesn’t make it true. The CL run alone meant a haul good enough to buy at least one top player.

Back to the Coutinho part, I really think it’s as simple as Klopp is now convinced to play another way. Countinho forced his way out, but in doing so Liverpool tried to get something similar with Fekir. When that blew up, Klopp looked at his options and made a tactical decision not to go in for that type of player. Countinho slows the attack, and takes way too many statistically poor long shots. Sure some go in, but analytics (which is still rudimentary for the sport) is increasingly crapping on the low percentage and breakdown of possession they cause. I think it’s somewhat why Wilson is gone and Bruno Fernandes might never have been an option. Liverpool are one of the leaders in analytics, and I’m sure that led to many of their decisions, more so than the market forces.

They lost one league match. Two CL finals. The squad isn’t the problem. If anything, not buying is giving guys like Origi, Lallana, Brewster, Gomez, etc confidence to continue to improve knowing that some summer buy isn’t here to take their spot.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

N'Koudou to Besiktas.

 

[Havre]

They don’t believe in buying backups for stupid money.

How many times does that have to be said?

There is a massive gap between those two players, but Klopp doesn’t want to go buy some 30-40 million dollar player who is content to sit on their can and collect a check. He rather have a young player who’s hungry. They don’t have City’s depth, no one does. But they’re able to play 6-7 guys in midfield of good quality, and while the drop off from the front three to what they have is steep, it’s not something they could have found a way to spend and acquire what they wanted for a price that fits in their budget. Getting Pepe to play 20 matches would have been beyond stupid. Working in Ox, Origi and Brewster is much more cost effective, and the central point is, if Liverpool are going to win stuff, they need Mane, Salah and Firmino. That’s how they’re built.

They went in for the left back (Kelly) that eventually signed for Bournemouth, but they overpaid way more than Liverpool would and offered more playing time. Andy Robertson isn’t moving aside for basically any left back.

You can keep saying they have no money, but it doesn’t make it true. The CL run alone meant a haul good enough to buy at least one top player.

Back to the Coutinho part, I really think it’s as simple as Klopp is now convinced to play another way. Countinho forced his way out, but in doing so Liverpool tried to get something similar with Fekir. When that blew up, Klopp looked at his options and made a tactical decision not to go in for that type of player. Countinho slows the attack, and takes way too many statistically poor long shots. Sure some go in, but analytics (which is still rudimentary for the sport) is increasingly crapping on the low percentage and breakdown of possession they cause. I think it’s somewhat why Wilson is gone and Bruno Fernandes might never have been an option. Liverpool are one of the leaders in analytics, and I’m sure that led to many of their decisions, more so than the market forces.

They lost one league match. Two CL finals. The squad isn’t the problem. If anything, not buying is giving guys like Origi, Lallana, Brewster, Gomez, etc confidence to continue to improve knowing that some summer buy isn’t here to take their spot.

Clearly one more time is necessary.

That young hungry player is Shaqiri then? And no-one has City's depth, but you are arguing Liverpool even shouldn't.

You can keep on saying they have money, but it doesn't make it true.

If you believe Liverpool got money they choose to not spend because they thought they would be better off - then fine. I can't force you to believe otherwise, but it is a rather odd position to hold.

 

[Savi]

Genk have signed Midtjylland striker Paul Onuachu for €6m (could go up to €7m with bonusses).

Club Brugge have loaned GK Karlo Letica to SPAL, and will likely loan Sofyan Amrabat to Hellas Verona.
There are reports that, if Brugge qualify for the CL group stage, they will try to sign Wanyama from Spurs. Not sure what his current status is at the moment, he'll probably won't come cheap I guess.

 

[Havre]

Depends on what is considered cheap. Not a bad player, but I can't see him ever getting back into the Spurs team. Obviously will be some million euro, but not necessarily that many.

I guess the biggest issue would be his salary not the transfer fee.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I don't think Wanyama will be too expensive. He seems to have a chronic injury problem and his wages are rather high for most teams.

Bit surprised seeing Ribery going to Fiorentina.

 

[Savi]

He seems to have a chronic injury problem

Ah, great

 

[Bon Esprit]

I don't think Wanyama will be too expensive. He seems to have a chronic injury problem and his wages are rather high for most teams.

Bit surprised seeing Ribery going to Fiorentina.[/QUOTE]

Why? It's obvious both parties think he still can play in one of the major leagues. He can go to the desert at 38yo.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I think he could have aimed higher if anything.

 

[hatterson]

Looks like Sanchez is gonna head to Inter on a season loan with option to buy. United going to subsidize part of his wages.

Also United looking at potentially signing Llorente for cover at striker.

 

[Incubajerks]

He ll play in one of the most beautiful city in the world, he ll be fine and will help the young guns. Then he can go MLS or China.

 

[Chimaera]

Except what I’m saying is actually based in fact, not just internet message board grumbling.

Look at their books for this past season. Listen to what most of the respected journalists like Melissa Reddy, Pearce and others have said about their ability to buy players. Heck, the new kit deal and the advertising advantages from being CL champions alone would have covered most of a decent player had they wanted.

You’ll also have clear proof when the money league is released again this year.

It’s fair to say they don’t have the budget to buy like City, but once again, their depth isn’t poor. At every position they have a quality player, and many they have a talented kid behind that. No Shaqiri isn’t the youth I was talking about. Brewster, Hoever, Larouci, van den Berg, and Elliot are all pushing for time. Some more than others, but Klopp has made it clear he wants a path to the team for youth players. That’s also part of the issue of buying 30 million of backup. Does that upset the balance and make a kid likely to leave? If I’m Hoever, do I see a way into the team if Liverpool sign a 20 million pound left back to sit the bench?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Klopp is the one who said they couldn't afford Coutinho. Maybe it's bad translation in the article.

But why are we accusing other fan bases of narratives? This isn't the first time Klopp has made a comment like this. If you don't like the way Liverpool is perceived publicly, maybe look at the manager who keeps saying these things. It's not everyone else's fault

 

[robertmac43]

Also United looking at potentially signing Llorente for cover at striker.

How does this guy keep getting jobs at decent clubs? He is not good.

 

[Chimaera]

It’s not a bad narrative, nor not the choice. They can’t afford 110 million to sit in the stands. What club could?

There’s a massive gap between that and they have no money.

 

[Cassano]

How does this guy keep getting jobs at decent clubs? He is not good.

I don't think he is a bad option as a 3rd choice striker