Transfer: 2019 Summer Transfers News, Rumors, and Discussion; Part 9

[Cassano]

No issues with what Liverpool are doing with Hoever. Not much different than Utd or Arsenal relying on Greenwood and Martinelli this season who are both 17.

 

[Havre]

No, to be clear. I said that you may be wrong. If Klopp watches both players train every day and thinks that Hoever is as good an option as Lovren, I can’t disprove this because I’m not at training every day.

Most certainly I could be wrong. But it wouldn't be the first time a coach made a poor decision either.

I just can't think of a single 17 year old defender that has ever been close to good enough for a title contender in the "modern day". That doesn't prove there are no black swans, but I still think it is a very risky bet. Even if I agree with managers that keep their squads down to a fairly trimmed level.

 

[Havre]

No issues with what Liverpool are doing with Hoever. Not much different than Utd or Arsenal relying on Greenwood and Martinelli this season who are both 17.

Except one is a defender. The likes of Rooney etc. were capable of playing at a high level at a young age. I am sure there are some defenders as well, but that is less common. Even de Ligt is having a hard time these days (only pre-season of course).

 

[Havre]

If you can sell your 4th string CB for 15m pounds, especially when he’s the quality of Lovren, you do it.

How many teams *aren’t* in a bit of a desperate spot if two of their top 3 CBs get injured?

Spurs got 18m for Wimmer

I agree few got a top class 4th choice - doesn't make any sense, but I say most got more than a 17 year old. And to me it isn't really much of a problem having Lovren - if a 17 year old is better then he plays.

Spurs got Foyth or Dier. Utd got a million of them. Jones maybe 4th choice? Tuanzebe? Rojo? Bailly? City got Walker. Arsenal got Chambers or maybe Mustafi. Chelsea I don't know who they would consider 4th choice, but Azpilicueta could certainly cover there. As for the younger players I dont't know.

So even if these players are not brilliant they aren't exactly unproven in the PL.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

No it really isn’t. One injury and they play Matip. Two, it’s Hoever, three Fabinho. From there, yeah it’s a bit of a gamble but they like the other Dutch kid.


If they’re going four injuries deep on center back, they’re not winning the league anyhow.

I’m not saying the two Dutch kids are in the same caliber, but there was a good teenager playing for Ajax in defense for their run down the CL. At some point, if Liverpool think the kids can do the business they can do the business. It’s not like Gomez is really old. Playing next to VVD solves some problems

A potential generational talent in his position is not just a good teenager. Jeez.

 

[bluesfan94]

If you can sell your 4th string CB for 15m pounds, especially when he’s the quality of Lovren, you do it.

How many teams *aren’t* in a bit of a desperate spot if two of their top 3 CBs get injured?

To be fair, Arsenal probably isn’t because we have 5 average CBs. Chambers, Holding, Sokratis, Luiz, Mustafi. Then you get Monreal. After that we suffer a bit.

Well blocking is a strong word but let's simplify it better.

Yeah, like I said, I wasn’t being specific to this situation, just a more general gripe.

 

[Savi]

Club Brugge have signed Malaga captain Federico Ricca. Left footed defender from Uruguay.

 

[Chimaera]

A potential generational talent in his position is not just a good teenager. Jeez.

They’re not the same class. That’s clear. But they’re not stiffs either.

If Liverpool are happily moving Lovren, they must feel the kids are special.

 

[Ajacied]

They’re not the same class. That’s clear. But they’re not stiffs either

Hoever has an intriguing upside. He reminds me of Patrick van Aanholt if he's being played as a wingback. Not sure about Van den Berg. He is way too kind and not physically strong at all just yet. Luckily for him those are things he can easily improve on. I think I rate Hoever more.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Ben Yedder to Monaco. Rony Lopes to Sevilla.

 

[Power Man]

Done.

 

[Juve]

 

[hatterson]

Most certainly I could be wrong. But it wouldn't be the first time a coach made a poor decision either.

I just can't think of a single 17 year old defender that has ever been close to good enough for a title contender in the "modern day". That doesn't prove there are no black swans, but I still think it is a very risky bet. Even if I agree with managers that keep their squads down to a fairly trimmed level.

If Liverpool are regularly giving him minutes, they’re not title contenders anyway, so it’s not an issue.

 

[hatterson]

Spurs got 18m for Wimmer

I agree few got a top class 4th choice - doesn't make any sense, but I say most got more than a 17 year old. And to me it isn't really much of a problem having Lovren - if a 17 year old is better then he plays.

Spurs got Foyth or Dier. Utd got a million of them. Jones maybe 4th choice? Tuanzebe? Rojo? Bailly? City got Walker. Arsenal got Chambers or maybe Mustafi. Chelsea I don't know who they would consider 4th choice, but Azpilicueta could certainly cover there. As for the younger players I dont't know.

So even if these players are not brilliant they aren't exactly unproven in the PL.

I haven’t watched Hoever, but I can read scouting reports.

I’d clearly rather have him than Jones or Rojo as a 4th option. Bailly is likely a better 4th option right now, but I’d still happily sell him if a guy line Hoever was behind him and a good value offer came in. Tuanzebe is 21, so it wouldn’t make sense to sell him in that case, but I’d have no issues if the coaching squad chose a 17 year old prospect over him.

As far as the other options, I’d rather take a guy like Hoever over Walker, Azpilicueta, and Mustafi.

Again, this isn’t for a starting spot. If you’re giving regular minutes to your 4th choice CB, you season has already blown up a decent amount, so you might as well give a youngster some time to grow.

 

[Havre]

If Liverpool are regularly giving him minutes, they’re not title contenders anyway, so it’s not an issue.

I don’t think VVD and Lovren for parts of the season rules out a title. Depends on the timing of the injuries.

That said I see your point and I don’t completely disagree. At a certain point injuries will ruin your chances regardless and you obviously can’t have endless amount of depth.

 

[Havre]

As for the youngster vs experienced. In this case I don’t see the conflict. If he is better than Lovren he plays.

If Lovren should be the 4th choice or someone cheaper. That is partly another discussion. To me Pool could have brought in a cheaper more experienced guy and sell Lovren.

 

[hatterson]

I don’t think VVD and Lovren for parts of the season rules out a title. Depends on the timing of the injuries.

That said I see your point and I don’t completely disagree. At a certain point injuries will ruin your chances regardless and you obviously can’t have endless amount of depth.

Depends on what you mean by “parts of the season”

A few games here and there, sure, but I’d say the same holds true for a VVD/Hoever combo.

As for the youngster vs experienced. In this case I don’t see the conflict. If he is better than Lovren he plays.

If Lovren should be the 4th choice or someone cheaper. That is partly another discussion. To me Pool could have brought in a cheaper more experienced guy and sell Lovren.

I don’t think they should sell him because he’s blocking a youngster, I think they should sell him because getting 15m for a player of Lovren’s quality is good business.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

No way? Already?

 

[robertmac43]

I was going to say, seems strange to see Jovic leaving on loan without a real shot this year. Maybe that was always the plan?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I was going to say, seems strange to see Jovic leaving on loan without a real shot this year. Maybe that was always the plan?

To be fair, I have no clue on what Real Madrid are doing in term of player personnel. They look like Chelsea from a couple years ago. They seem like they are using their notoriety and money to get promising players before loaning them out or play them with their reserve team.

 

[Juve]

No way? Already?

It seems so... I read some other tweets stating Zidane was not impressed with him, preferred Benzema.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

It seems so... I read some other tweets stating Zidane was not impressed with him, preferred Benzema.

That would always have been the case. Zidane won 3 CL with Benzema and he is french/algerian like him, it would have taken hat-tricks every game for him to break the starting lineup.

 

[Power Man]

Yeah the Jovic signing really surprised me tbh
Obviously we need a backup but Jovic is too good to be a backup imho

 

[robertmac43]

To be fair, I have no clue on what Real Madrid are doing in term of player personnel. They look like Chelsea from a couple years ago. They seem like they are using their notoriety and money to get promising players before loaning them out or play them with their reserve team.

Definitely similar. Maybe Benzema has another year or so in him, but I thought he had been pretty uninspiring last year.

 

[Power Man]

Definitely similar. Maybe Benzema has another year or so in him, but I thought he had been pretty uninspiring last year.

I may be wrong, but I thought Benzema had a pretty good season