Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Ronning On Empty, Jan 22, 2019.
Right...NHL players definitely have to be all in on the HFCanucks Benning hate-fest.?...derp
No they just look our placement in the standings the last few years
Right..so UFA's don't want to play on a team with Pettersson,Horvat,Boeser,Markstrom (Hughes)..?..Its no secret that this is a promising new group...Do you honestly think that UFA's will be checking the standings in the Sedins final two years here?..Seriously?
It’s not just Vancouver. ANY bottom 10 team outside of NYC, original 6 teams, and California, will always have difficulty signing players unless it’s an overpayment.
On the flip side, players will be willing to take discounts for top 10 teams.
That’s why I suggest that the Canucks’ first priority should be to try to reup their RFA’s at hometown discounts. Go after UFA’s that might be in the 6-8 million range, but don’t go after anyone that will cost more than 9 million. Why? Because - if you do that, then all of our upcoming RFA’s will want to be paid at a premium. That’s what we are seeing with Toronto right now.
Now compare Toronto to what we are seeing in Calgary, Tampa, and Nashville (minus Subbann.....whom Nashville are apparently trying to shop).
If you want to try and win just one cup, then yeah.........pay UFA’s 10 million+. If you’re looking to build a dynasty like Chicago however, then the goal of the game should be to reup your Core RFA’s at hometown discounts (long term contracts) while overpaying for depth (short term contracts). All elite teams will suffer cap challenges of some kind, but the elite teams know how to keep their core players......ie Chicago 2010-2015. @Josepho
Looking at teams like TBay and TOR as the eventual goal, this team is so far away. You need an army. Right now, the Canucks have a few pieces.
TOR has four 1st line calibre forwards and one high end 2nd line C. VAN is two forwards shy in this regard. TBay has roughly 5 1st liners... It’s really staggering when you view it though that lens.
This team has such a long way to go to be relevant in the discussion of top teams. They have to hit at the draft and hope they can attract one high end FA. It’s a long road yet.
Edler has (in reality) been on the downslope for years. Same with Tanev. I don't really think they're credible top minutes players anymore. Hutton-Stecher have been fine in the top-pair role thus far (small sample size alert) and are still in the stages of their careers where they could plausibly improve.
The implicit reason for keeping Tanev around is to shelter Hughes, and I don't think we're going to be exposing Hughes to tough minutes in year one either.
I think it's incredibly optimistic to think Quinn will be more than an exciting but error prone third pairing defense for his first year or two here. If he's ready for the NHL right now at all.
Not being a hater, just being realistic and don't want to rush kids.
I think right now we have one potential generational player, one elite but one-dimensional sniper and one very good top six center. That's about all that is exceptional about the Canucks. I really like Beagle and Roussel is growing on me. But this team is barely at .500 and has huge holes in it.
I think this team is four to six players away from being any sort of threat in the post-season. I also think our defense is a time bomb that's going to explode in the next year or two when we're going to have really only Stecher as a NHL quality defenseman. Edler is getting older and could potential bail to a better team this off-season. I don't know why Tanev would stay when his contract is up. Both Edler and Tanev are on the wrong side of 30 and downtrending, if winning is important to them, both have significant motivation to try greener pastures. We are downtrending significantly on the backend and this could be a potential disaster if management doesn't un**** this situation.
I look at it this way.Start getting rid of some o these bad contracts we have (Shcaller,Sutter,Guddy,Eriksson ect then you have some flexibility to target a Karlsson to come here.Not saying he would come here,,but you could make a serious offer.Why not.
Agree with this. The entire D is gonna need a major overhaul and we need some elite level wingers. Outside of Boeser we are really lacking on the wings.
I liked MS suggestions of Silfverberg and Dzingel.
Dzingel looked great against Winnipeg on Saturday, there was a play where he drove the net and walked both Buff and someone, maybe Chiarot, with a slick toe drag. Would look great in our top 6
I'd also consider see if Brett Connolly wants to come home, he's a solid depth guy who can move up in the lineup.
All of those names are good support pieces, but they do not address the primary objective.
If the goal is to be in the conversation for a cup, eventually, then sights have to be set at the top of the roster. The defense needs a major overhaul. Maybe Demko can be a top end starter? Maybe they are able to find a 1st liner in this year or next year's draft? Maybe they can sign a top flight forward or Dman in FA? A lot has to break right for that conversation to begin, even now.
I will disagree with the defense needing a major overhaul, at least for the short-term. They just need to cut ties with 5 and 44.
Hughes should be able to outperform #5, and if he can't.....uh oh.
Edler, Tanev, Stecher, Hutton, Hughes is fine as a framework to me. The FA pool stinks though....I'll agree with Nick Jensen as the target.
1) Edler and Tanev aren’t going to decline THAT much in 1-2 years.
2) Edler and Tanev want to stay in Vancouver
3) Outside of Hughes and Juolevi, we’ll likely have atleast 1, maybe 2, defensive prospects that will make it in (ie Woo).
4) It’s not a 100% guarantee, but Tryamkin looks like he wants to come back.
5) The Canucks will have some significant cap room when guys like Sutter, Gudbranson, and Gagner come off the books in 1-2 years. Eriksson will also likely be gone (won’t go into detail here as to why this will likely happen, but 31 of 36 million of Eriksson’s contract will have been paid to him in real dollars after July 1st 2020).
I think you worry too much and you need to relax.
Canucks defense will be fine. It won’t take 4-6 years for the Canucks to be competive. As I’ve said for many years:
2019: miss playoffs but barely. We turn heads.
2020: make 1st round but get Twinkie’s shoved up our noses.
2021: big jump here. We are a 2nd round caliber team that will either be on par, be upset in the first round, or overachieve.
2022-2030: see 2021.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Edler could be gone in 30 games. Tanev could be gone by the end of next year. Even still, how confident is anyone in Edler-Tanev being a top pairing in a playoff series? Especially in three years?
Considering defense is what wins in the post-season and this team's history of defense breakdowns even in the best of times. We also let Hamhuis walk for nothing. I don't know how this isn't a problem for anyone else?
Give Mark Stone whatever he wants. Find another RD. Ship out Gudbranson, Sutter, and don't re-sign Pouliot or Granlund.
It's a major problem. In fact, it's the biggest issue with this franchise moving forward.
The defense needs a major overhaul long-term.
I mean, sure, I guess. What team doesn't. Take a look at the Lightning's blueline. Toronto's. Even good teams' bluelines need work. I think the framework to be competitive is here already, and then you look to continue adding to it over time.
But you already know, I'm fine to retain Edler.
I don't like the term overhaul. I didn't like it when DTS used it, nor do I like it in this instance. At least going forward they'll have Hutton, Stecher and Hughes. I don't think those spots need to be overhauled.
The teams that don't need a defensive overhaul long-term are the teams that have key young players as fixtures at the top. This is different from the "needs work" category.
Right now, Hughes is not a factor. Hutton and Stecher are top4 Dmen. Edler is an aging #2 and Tanev's contract is coming up next year. That's a team that needs a reconstruct its defense. I don't think that's a provocative statement to make.
I just don't think the need to overhaul is dire. Obviously this assumes the aging #2 is back.
Next years group has what you've deemed 4 top 4 defensman, with one of the leagues top prospects in waiting.
The framework I mentioned has the ability to be a playoff team next year and that should be the plan. I don't think you need to tear it down to improve it.
I guess it comes down to what you think Hutton and Stecher are.....are they key young players? Are they even fixtures here?
I'd be fine moving into next year with what they have. I think you get addition by subtraction if they're willing to move on from Pouliot and Gudbranson.
Your framework is next year, that's why it's not dire. My framework is long-term. For that, you don't need to tear it down because some of its best supports will begin to breakdown regardless, or leave.
A top prospect isn't a top pair defender. Hutton and Stecher are both mid-pairing dmen. That means replacements for the top pairing and the bottom pairing. That's no small feat.
I think we're already going to run into a little trouble contract wise when it comes to re-signing some of our RFA's. In negotiations with Hutton, all his agent has to do is point at the 4 million that Gudbranson makes and call that a starting point because clearly Hutton is a superior player in all aspects to Gudbranson.
Eriksson is getting 6 million per for about 30 points of production every season. Some of our forwards (outside of Boeser and Pettersson, because they'll definitely make more) will point to that and argue for a bump in their salaries.
Overpaying garbage players over the past few years might just throw our entire salary structure out of whack.
What's you stance on Hughes long-term?
You haven't even showed me your long-term framework, you've just stated they need to overhaul.
If they re-up Edler, they have 4 top 4 dmen next year. I think the entire league wants to add top pairing defensman.
I don't think it's a huge feat to improve the 3rd pairing. I guess I'm still taking baby steps but I'm going forward and have hopes that Hughes is worthy of the hype.
1) By the time Edler starts to decline, Hughes will be ready to take over. Edler will be signed to a 3 year deal.
2) Regardless of whether Juolevi lives up to his potential or not, he’ll be an upgrade over Pouliot.
3) Tryamkin and atleast one of our current defensive prospects (Woo, Chatfield, Brisebois) will make it in.
4) we will have enough money to go after a top RD in UFA due to many of our contracts (Sutter, Guds, Gagner, etc) coming off the books over these next few years.
Juolevi-Tryamkin-Stecher (2 of these 3).
We will be fine. The sky will not fall.
Relax. Enjoy the ride.
If following the Canucks is too stressful or if you really hate management that much, take up another hobby until we are competitive again one day. There’s no shame in that. Following the Canucks is meant to be fun.
They had 4 top 4 dmen this year... Nobody can stop talking about how to improve the defense.
I'm hoping Hughes turns into a top2 defender. I don't know if and when that will happen.
They need an overhaul because I can point to the pieces on the existing defense and project future failures. Top pair and bottom pair. That's not a framework?
They have to push for a two year deal with Edler. Give him more money if that's what it takes.
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