2019 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread III

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Ronning On Empty, Jan 22, 2019.

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  1. MS

    MS 1%er

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    He’s still playing #4 minutes for an elite team but he’s never been a player I’ve loved.

    Unfortunately there isn’t anywhere near the depth in the defensive UFA pool as at forward.
     
  2. MS

    MS 1%er

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    He isn’t going to be signing a 2-year deal.

    If that happens, sure. But he’ll be getting 4-5 years at $5 million per. At least.
     
  3. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    I count about 13 that probably have the capacity to do it, with about 10 realistically being able to do it. With Panarin and Karlsson going to 2 of those 10 teams, I have about 8 that could make a push for $10m AAV. How many do you have?
     
  4. MS

    MS 1%er

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    Probably 5-8 have the capability but not all are necessarily going to. I expect he’ll have 3-4 legit big offers and there’s no way we shouldn’t be in that mix.
     
  5. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    Ok fair enough, but if you're him and and at least one of those 4 teams is a playoff team right now, and with a competent GM... why do you come here? I can't see it. I'll be shocked. Pleasantly surprised, in fact. I just don't see it with this regime.
     
  6. MS

    MS 1%er

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    Like I said, I don’t know if we can get him. But I don’t think it’s impossible.

    We’d have to have the biggest $$$ offer and he’d have to really believe this is a team on the rise.
     
  7. FacepalmBenning

    FacepalmBenning Fleeing Utica as I type this

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    I really like Stecher and I hope he's with this team for the next several years. He is such an under the radar player but I am extremely impressed with his development into a top four defenseman. Outside of him, I don't feel there's anyone to build around in the organization. I like Hutton and the enthusiasm he brings to the game. Edler and Tanev don't have much longer here. And there's really nothing else.

    I've said it over and over again and I'll keep saying it. Kyle Wood would be an excellent addition to this blueline and someone who could be here for the next ten years. Someone is going to make me look like a genius when someone prys him out of the San Jose organization.
     
  8. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    We’ll see what transpires in Toronto but if I really had to guess, my guess is that they’ll field some very good teams over these next few years but won’t have the depth to win a cup.

    Someone on the T&R Board (In one of the Matthews has been extended threads) did a study on cup winning teams, and what overall percentage of the cap their top players occupied.

    What all of these teams had in common over the past decade or so, was.....

    1) The top end talents of these respective teams being on long term cap friendly deals.
    2) All of these teams being very deep and having extra money to pay for depth.

    Between 2010-2015, Chicago and LA won multiple cups. Look at those old AAV’s of Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Richards, Brown, and Gaborik, and it’s quite easy to see why. Even that 2011 team in Boston had extremely favorably cap hits to their elite players, and could invest in extra depth as a result.

    It wasn’t until Toews, Kane, and Kopitar received those 10-10.5 million “thank you” deals (very justified mind you.....as these players helped their organizations win multiple cups) that the LA and Chicago mini-dynasties came to an end.

    With the cap having gone up + Chicago and LA no longer having an envious cap structure, Pittsburgh’s cap situation had become relatively strong. With the cap having gone up significantly since 2010, contracts like Crosby’s and Malkin’s were relatively cost effective now. Ditto for Washington when they won last year.

    Look at Tampa Bay this year. Look at the AAV’s of Stamkos and Hedman. Look at Calgary and what they seem to be building. Look at the AAV’s on Monahan, Gaudreau, etc. Look at Winnipeg’s current cap. How about Nashville’s? (Notice how there are rumblings about how they might try and move Subbann?)

    People talk about how the Canucks invested heavily in guys like Sutter, Gudbranson, Eriksson, etc., without taking into consideration that......

    1) All/most of these contracts will start expiring just around the time that our current core will be ready to be re-upped.
    2) Guys like Eriksson, Gudbranson, Sutter, etc, were paid a premium price for leadership and mentor ship while we were transitioning to our new core. These guys were placeholders and were never expected to be a part of our long term plans unless they made a huge case otherwise (which they haven’t).

    Tl;dr: Long term cost effective contracts to young core + investing in depth = greatest potential for a team to win multiple cups. Depth is key. Even though they haven’t won a cup yet, there’s a reason why a “no name” team like Vegas regularly mops the floors with many top teams. Cost effective contracts + depth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  9. VC

    VC Registered User

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    This should be the strategy. Sign somebody who could be around for a few or wait for roster filler.

    ___________________________________________________________________

    As a very basic building block for what should be (cause of contracts) for next year....

    _____ - Petterson - Boeser
    Baertschi (ltir?) - Horvat - Leivo
    Roussel - Sutter - Virtanen
    Ericksson - Beagle - Motte

    Doubt we see Goldoblin next season and as of right now Baertschi career should be in question. At least one of the top two leftwing position are up for grabs. Andres Lee/Brock Nelson would be a great fit for both or either.

    Brandon Tanev is an option, an upgrade on Motte. Fills the same role of Russel?

    Ryan Dzingel is somebody I'm not actually too familiar without side of HockeyDB. Only thing that I know is he is fast and can produce 40+ points a season. For me Baertschi careers is in question so a Dzingel should be highly investigated.

    Jakob Silfverberg would be a massive upgrade on Leivo in the top 6. No idea what contract demand will be. Don't know if 6 per x/ 5m. is the start or.?

    Joonas Donskoi I've always been curious by. Not for any credible reasons for, just always thought he could produce more. In my opinion a Baertschi level player and pending contract a very useful for this roster.

    Marcus Johanson is somebody I wanted to target for Jason Garrison a few years back. My interest hasn't gone away. Pending contract, a top 6er that would fit on either line.
     
  10. cookiefest

    cookiefest but recapture penalty

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    I never thought we'd see the day when it somehow became a popular opinion to think that building a team with multiple elite players is a questionable philosophy. Just crazy.
     
  11. Pip

    Pip Registered User

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    Blaming the fall of the Kings in particular to Kopitar’s contract is pretty ****ing stupid. No other way to really put it
     
  12. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    You’re only hearing what you want to hear. Obviously, a team should be building around elite players, but these elite players should be signed to long term cost effective contracts that don’t take up an extraordinarily high percentage of the cap. Why? Because - depth is key in today’s NHL and it’s been that way for quite some time.

    -study the AAV’s of the top players on Chicago and LA when they won their multiple cups between 2010-2015. Look at Boston’s as well.

    -look at Pittsburgh and Washington’s cap situation these past three years and compare the AAV percentage of their top players to what Toronto is going to attempt to do moving forward (hint: Toronto’s overall AAV percentage to its top players is going to be extremely high).
     
  13. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    Kopitar is and was well deserving of his raise. Teams need to reward their players once said players help said organization win multiple cups. Hence - guys like Kopitar, Toews, and Kane needed to get paid that amount by their respective teams.

    What’s really stupid (imo) is paying a premium price for UFA’s and having said contracts potentially interfere in reupping up your core AND having enough money to build the necessary depth. Again - let’s see how things unfold in Toronto as proof. My prediction is that Toronto will field some very good teams over these next few years, but will ultimately play the role of the bridesmaid (ie consistently losing to the team in the East that either makes the finals or wins the cup).

    You might think my Kopitar comment is stupid, but the facts speak for themselves. Has LA even won a playoff round since 2014? The other thing with LA is that some of those “long term cap friendly deals” turned into liabilities as the players aged/got worse (Richards, Gaborik, etc.).
     
  14. bossram

    bossram Registered User

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    The only UFA defenseman the Canucks should even consider is Nick Jensen. He's still at an age where he can contribute, he's a legitimate top-four RHD, and his lack of name-brand should keep the dollars and term reasonable.

    He also gives us some flexibility to move Tanev at next years deadline.

    Rolling with the following actually looks somewhat competent.

    Hutton - Stecher
    Edler - Jensen
    Hughes - Tanev
     
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  15. Brock Boeser Laser Show

    Brock Boeser Laser Show Registered User

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    I'd only sign Jensen if the plan is to move Tanev and the contract isn't more than 3.5-4.5 a year. I think they are rather redundant players and I'm not a fan of locking in the right side on three guys who will be lucky to combine for 10 goals over a full season. We need some offensive talent on the right side to keep teams honest and to take advantage of all the opportunities that Elias will set up.
     
  16. bossram

    bossram Registered User

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    Well, the plan, as I mentioned in the post, would be to have the flexibility to trade Tanev. He walks next summer anyway.

    And short of Karlsson (who is not coming here), there aren't any offensive RHD on the market. And we don't have any one of the sort in the pipeline either.

    Coming into next season with the same blueline is probably not good.
     
  17. BROCK HUGHES

    BROCK HUGHES Registered User

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    I'm pretty sure Tanev is not going anywhere soon.remember the word Mentor!..its just crazy as to how many mentors we have on this team.in all honesty...Goldobin,Sutter,Pouliot,Guddy,Grandlund should all be moved asap and start press boxing Eriksson when he no shows in games..
     
  18. FacepalmBenning

    FacepalmBenning Fleeing Utica as I type this

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    I honestly can't see how we can have a conversation about improving the Canucks that doesn't begin and end with the back-end. We spent about 50 minutes hemmed in our own zone last night and our goalie is looking all world because our defense is so bad. You guys are obsessing on forwards but this team will get nowhere without two to three new legit NHL quality defensemen.
     
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  19. Brock Boeser Laser Show

    Brock Boeser Laser Show Registered User

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    I personally think there is a higher chance of Karlsson coming here than Jensen as weird as that might sound. I expect canucks ownership will be very aggressive in free agency wanting to bring in big fish now that the team has a franchise center. Gut feeling is that If EK reaches free agency I expect the canucks will be one of the three or four finalists for his services although I wouldn't bet on him coming here. I think it will come down to Sharks, Stars, VGK, Canucks, and possibly Lightning if they can free up enough money. Jensen likely re ups with Detroit or goes somewhere that's heavy into advanced analytics.

    If the "interview" period comes around and EK isn't signed yet I expect we will hear rumours about Aqua trying to fine dine him at some fancy Vancouver restaurant with the Sedins and Elias.
     
  20. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    This post * 1000. :cool:

    My only ‘wtf’ to your post, is why would you have Hutton and Stecher on your top pairing while Hughes and Tanev would be on your bottom? Based on your pairings (which I think are solid), I’d go with that Edler-Jensen pairing as the top, with the 2nd pairing being dependent on where Hughes is at in his development.
     
  21. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    From that list, I’m highly interested in Silverberg and Dzingel.

    I’m also interested in what Winnipeg’s asking price for Trouba would be if the two sides can’t come to an agreement.
     
  22. BROCK HUGHES

    BROCK HUGHES Registered User

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    My interest is Nyquist or Silverberg.
    But more concerned about the defense first before getting a forward.
     
  23. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    Agreed about the defense.

    I just don’t think our long term solutions are available this off season.

    Myers is underwhelming, injury prone, and will be leaving his prime years.

    Karlsson will cost too much and will completely throw our cap out of whack in the long term (in terms of attempting to get Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes to take hometown discounts).

    For those reasons, I’m willing to just say.....

    1) Re-sign Edler to a 3 year deal. Yes, unfortunately, I don’t think they’ll accept a 2 year offer.

    2) Re-up Boeser to a hometown discount of some kind. Boeser has enough proven character to lead by example here. IF Boeser can do this, then I think it signicantly increases the chances of Pettersson accepting a future contract of 8.8 million or less (someone did a study and determined that 8.8M is roughly the equivalent of some of those contracts that the elite players of Chicago and LA when they won those cups between 2010-2015....and what the cap was at that time).

    Here’s my thing though:

    1) Hutton has proven that he’s ready to be a 2nd pairing dman. Hutton is living proof that our system works. He’s a guy that has paid his dues and earned his stripes. He should be our 2nd pairing dman moving forward, and I don’t think it sends a good message to the team if you move Hutton at this point (ie a guy who busted his ass to get better only to be moved in the end).

    2) Hughes might be ready to be a top pairing dman right now. He might not need that much time. We shall see where he’s at in March when he joins us.

    Why I’m mentioning the above is because I wonder if it would be worth the risk on the Canucks’ part to let Edler walk, and instead, use that money for help up front.

    Then, in the Summer of 2020, you can address the right side defense.

    I love the idea of Edler being here, but he’s just so damned injury prone. I’m leaning towards signing Edler to a 3 year, but these constant injuries to him are quite annoying.
     
  24. Hindustan Smyl

    Hindustan Smyl 2022/2023 = Canucks being a contender

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    Chris Tanev + 1st for Jacob Trouba and 1st (one of the sides can add to even out the deal if necessary).

    IF.....

    1) The Canucks don’t finish with a top 2 lottery pick and aren’t in a position to draft Hughes or Kakko.

    2) There is a big enough gap in terms of where Winnipeg will draft(near the bottom) and where we will draft (much closer to the top)

    Then I would ask Winnipeg about a possible Tanev/1st for Trouba/1st deal. Trouba fits the age of the Canucks extremely well and would add a lot of toughness to our backend.

    Trouba won’t be cheap, but he won’t cost a ridiculous 10+ million either.
     
  25. travis scott

    travis scott Registered User

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    The reality of the situation is that no big name UFAs will come here as long as Benning is the GM unless we severely overpay them.

    These players aren’t idiots, they know which teams are badly managed and which aren’t.
     
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